Towing with Subaru 4 cyl vs. 6 cyl

trhatch

We have just purchased a T@B trailer and are planning to purchase a new Subaru Outback to tow it. We are undecided about whether to go with the 4 cyl 2.5 engine or the 6 cyl 3.6 engine. We will be using the vehicle primarily around town and the higher gas mileage is attractive. But, I am concerned about it being under-powered to really handle the trailer. Does anybody have any personal experience with one or the other, or both, engines towing a T@B?

PaulaK

We had the same question and were planning to get the 3.6 just to be safe. In the end though we decided to go with the 4 cyl. We have only towed it once from Minneapolis to a campground in Wisconsin. The landscape was hilly but nothing like towing through mountains. You can tell you're towing something, but it handled it well. We, like you, wanted the better mileage for our normal driving.

PaulaK

There was a previous discussion thread entitled "Subaru Outback tow vehicle ??" - you might search for that for more info on this topic.

mash2

Just finished 10,000 mile trip with forester 2.5 4 cyl engine.  With the exception of some areas of Nevada, the vehicle did fairly well.  However, the trip has lead me to seriously consider upgrading to a 240+ horsepower engine for greater control over the loads...While the 2.5 works, but it was definitely taxed in the mountains.   I'll be trading up to something with more power before I head out for another month long trek.

Wanderoo

Definitely go for the 6 cyl.  I tow with the 4 cyl. Forester, and while she does great towing in the manual mode on small hills, once I hit any elevation and the mountains (I live in a high altitude elevation), my Subie really lets me know she is unhappy.  Just sayin'.  :-??

stanm

We just got back from a weekend trip with our 2014 T@B Q. We have a 2013 Outback, 4 cyl (no transmission cooler) and it tows like a dream! We have made several trips over the Cascades and along the Columbia River here in Washington State. This last weekend we went over Snoqualmie Pass (3,022 ft) on I-90 and then over Blewett Pass (4,124 ft) and back again on the return trip. It's a pretty steep climb over Blewett but Snoqualmie is a freeway so the climb isn't quite as steep. Over Snoqualmie I am able to set the speed control to 55 or 60 and the Outback just goes. Over Blewett, I also set the speed control, but only 50 or 55 and I did use the manual shift over the steepest parts. We averaged ~15 MPG for the whole 350 mile trip. Generally when I don't have passes to go over, I get closer to ~19 or 20 MPG with the T@B. (25-30 MPG when not towing the T@B) I like towing with the Outback because we live in the city and it's our primary vehicle. I couldn't be happier with the Outback as my tow vehicle.

As an aside, the Subaru service guys at Chaplin's (my dealer) have no concerns with towing the T@B and when I was first introduced to T@Bs and the Seattle RV show, Chris, the LG marketing director pointed out that they use Outbacks as their tow vehicles.

TabyDD

trhatch said:

We have just purchased a T@B trailer and are planning to purchase a new Subaru Outback to tow it. We are undecided about whether to go with the 4 cyl 2.5 engine or the 6 cyl 3.6 engine. We will be using the vehicle primarily around town and the higher gas mileage is attractive. But, I am concerned about it being under-powered to really handle the trailer. Does anybody have any personal experience with one or the other, or both, engines towing a T@B?I

 

I just purchased a Subaru Outback 2013 4 cyl, 173 hp 2500 tow rating. I also will use most of the year as my city car.  The mpg is 30, so was a happy medium.  I like the AWD feature and I will have a transmission cooler installed as a precaution.  The dryweight of the tab is 1700.  I have been advised that packing it with 'stuff' will not exceed 500 lbs.  However I am a minimalist!  That decision is nerve racking. 

TabyDD

stanm said:

We just got back from a weekend trip with our 2014 T@B Q. We have a 2013 Outback, 4 cyl (no transmission cooler) and it tows like a dream! We have made several trips over the Cascades and along the Columbia River here in Washington State. This last weekend we went over Snoqualmie Pass (3,022 ft) on I-90 and then over Blewett Pass (4,124 ft) and back again on the return trip. It's a pretty steep climb over Blewett but Snoqualmie is a freeway so the climb isn't quite as steep. Over Snoqualmie I am able to set the speed control to 55 or 60 and the Outback just goes. Over Blewett, I also set the speed control, but only 50 or 55 and I did use the manual shift over the steepest parts. We averaged ~15 MPG for the whole 350 mile trip. Generally when I don't have passes to go over, I get closer to ~19 or 20 MPG with the T@B. (25-30 MPG when not towing the T@B) I like towing with the Outback because we live in the city and it's our primary vehicle. I couldn't be happier with the Outback as my tow vehicle.

 

Stan and Kitty~Thank you for your commentary.  I just purchased a Subaru Outback2013 4 cy and was having some trepidations before committing to the tow package.  Frankly, I bought the car Tuesday and it's in the shop with a key security problem that immobilizes the car.  Was unable to start, had it towed to my dealer.  Not a great confidence builder.  But I do believe this car will accommodate my needs.  What do you think of a trip to Montana Hwy90 all the way to points east?  I so appreciate your stories!  D

As an aside, the Subaru service guys at Chaplin's (my dealer) have no concerns with towing the T@B and when I was first introduced to T@Bs and the Seattle RV show, Chris, the LG marketing director pointed out that they use Outbacks as their tow vehicles.

TabyDD

See above in the body of your comments. 'Stan and Kitty'.  New at this.

T@Balong

We tow our 2014 T@B S model with a 2012 Subaru Forester, 2.5L with a manual transmission.   For the most part it does just fine but I will admit that in a few years when I am looking to purchase another vehicle, it will have considerably more horsepower than the 170hp I have now.   I love my Forester too much to trade it in at this point just to have a more powerful tow vehicle.   We will make do for the time being.    But I think a six cylinder engine or perhaps one of Ford's EcoBoost engines with more horsepower would be a better match.

Greg_B

I owned a 2013 Subaru Legacy 2.5L.   I cant imagine it being enough to comfortably pull the T@B in the mountains; although I did tow with it myself.  Go big if you are going to tow.  Plus there is a possible oil consumption issue with the 2.5L...  pending lawsuit I read recently.

Greg_B

correction:  *did NOT tow with it myself.

tabasco

We have a 2005 forester auto and have just returned from the T@B  / little guy meet at ponderosa state park in Idaho, via hells canyon back to victoria B.C.

The T@B base  weight is 1450 + another 200 in stuff. the round trip was 2000 miles, our average ,  over whole trip was 17mpg, this includes 6 passes over 4000ft

and 4 over5500ft. Now I will not claim any speed records on this trip and the forester certainly had to work harder than .it has on other trips (high temps+105f)

but we don't normally push it hard in the mountains, on the I5 heading thru Wash/Or At55 to60 cruise we average 20mpg on our way to Calif,So,is the Subaru managing 

O.K.?  Yes, but if we were using it to tow the T@B more often, especially in high country, then I would be looking at the turbo version with better torque and horsepower .P.S. oil consumption for the trip, half quart.

PaulaK

tabasco said:

The T@B base  weight is 1450 + another 200 in stuff

My understanding is that the newer LG T@B's weigh considerably more than the Dutchmen T@B's - something to factor into the analysis.

TaBmaybe

where can i find out more info about the problem with oil consumption that greg-b speaks of.-i had problem in mts between mont./ida. hot weather pulling 2012 t@b with 2011 outback 4 cyl..  the car over heated and oil level went down----karen-o

Verna

Karen, you would get your best advice from your mechanic, or your dealer of your vehicle.

foxhilly

We just went for our maiden trip, towing our new T@B with a 4 cyl. 2003 Outback. (Which was given the go-ahead for the tow by the dealership and an impressed mechanic before the trip. The outback was in great condition.)

We were planning on upgrading soon, but decided to give the Subaru a go to see if she could handle it- only to trade it in for a truck on our journey back home! There were many reasons for this, and perhaps we could have made it home safely, but it was just far too stressful. The hills pushed us down to 40-50 mph, our mpg was about 10-11. We had to deal with almost constant shuddering from the hitch anytime we went down large hills, and sometimes up hills-which felt like it was from the trailer speed trying to align to the car speed due to the small size of the car. It could have been something else, I'm not a mechanic.

We were traveling from Minneapolis, MN, to McCall, ID and back, by the way. SO MANY giant hills. Those hills and the mountains seemed to be too much for the outback. On the first morning of our way back, we came terrifyingly close to hitting a deer, and the sound and shake of the outback during the emergency braking made the experience even scarier. (Even with the brake control we had installed in the outback.) 

After that the brakes weren't reacting the same, and we really didn't want to do any more damage to the outback. So we bought a Tacoma in Missoula, MT, and traded our outback in for more than we bought her for in TX! It was a win win. (We wanted to have a truck anyway...)

The outback did surprise us on being able to tow the trailer at all, but the distances, inclines, and altitudes we pushed her too were just more than she was made for. And we plan on many more trips, including even more/higher mountains. If you're only going to pull the trailer short, flat distances every so often, you'll be great. But prepare for issues if you plan on many long haul road trips. If anything, DO go for the larger engine. 

I know that the older outbacks have lower tow capacities- so I'd check to see what the new ones are as well. Remember to add gear, people, pets, etc. to the dry weight of the trailer. Our 2015 S model is 1600 lbs dry.

DABWCA

My T@B is finally scheduled for delivery later this month and it's time for me to bite the bullet on setting up my tow vehicle to pull it.  The plan has been to set up my 2003 low mileage Forester 5 speed, which has a rated capacity of 2,400# with brakes.  Based on posts from Stanm (Stan & Kitty), Wanderoo (Beth), Mash2, TabyDD, TabAlong (Norm), and Tabasco, I was prepared to make it work for me.  But Hillary and Heather's (Foxhilly) note about their Outback is not a good sign.  If I can't make my Forester work at least until next summer, I'll be looking into a Ford Escape with the 2.0 Ecoboost engine that's rated at 3,500#.

Foxhilly: Subaru made two vastly different models called Outbacks in 2003.  Was yours an Outback Sport, which is smaller and had a smaller engine?  Regardless, both Outback models had towing ratings of only 2,000#. 

mickietucs

Foxhilly - what Tacoma did you get (year, style, etc.)? One style of the Tacoma is rated at 6500 lbs but another at 3500 lbs (both 6 cyl). I am looking at that (among other vehicles) and would like to know the details of what you got and the good/bad re: mpg. I realize from some research without towing it's something like 17/22. Most of the 6 cyl are in that range. In SUV's I'm considering the Dodge Durango - has a bit better mpg but not sure it makes a huge difference. Thanks for your feedback on the Tacoma!

stanm

I traded my 2003 Subaru wagon for a 2013 before I took delivery of my T@B. Two major reasons were the 2,000 lb. tow capacity of the 2003 vs. the 2,700 of the 2013, and the vastly improved mileage of the 2013 over the 2003. Usually I get 27-30 MPG in normal driving and I just got 14.5 MPG over the Labor Day weekend towing the T@B. No, I don't look to travel at 70 MPH but I set the speed control to 60 and have no problem maintaining that. Also on our trip over the Cascades earlier this summer, including a very steep Blewet Pass, I got 13+ MPG for the trip and was able to maintain 50-60 MPH depending on how steep the climb was. Felt very safe up and down the steep grades.

...stan

stanm

Forgot to take my comment about the 2,000 lb. tow capacity above to the logical conclusion. The point is that once the T@B is loaded (water, propane, food, clothing and other supplies), you will be at or near the max tow rating of 2,000 lbs. Towing right at the max capacity is not generally recommended and I didn't want to find out why that is the case...

foxhilly

Our outback was not the sport, but it did have only a 2000 lbs tow rating. Once we were loaded up and had the dogs in the car, we had to be close to that or pushing it. And performance got worse as the elevation went higher.
Our Tacoma sport has the tow package (which all of them at the dealer had,) and it's capacity is 6000 lbs.
I had read some posts-because I searched like crazy to make sure people had towed with an older outback before-and there were some people who's subaru did just fine. I think it depends on what you expect from the car, where you go with it, and what model you have.
I know for us... It unfortunately took trying it out for ourselves to see that it wasn't going to work. We might have wondered had we traded the Subaru in before the trip.
I kind of miss some things about the outback, but the Tacoma is amazing and we have no regrets about the trade. Now we can go anywhere with the trailer at any time and not have to worry about the towing. And with the double cab, there is actually more room inside the truck than there was in the subaru. Plus we can haul whatever we want, which is why we wanted a truck anyway.
Good luck with whatever you decide. Be safe and have fun!

TabyDD

stanm said:

I traded my 2003 Subaru wagon for a 2013 before I took delivery of my T@B. Two major reasons were the 2,000 lb. tow capacity of the 2003 vs. the 2,700 of the 2013, and the vastly improved mileage of the 2013 over the 2003. Usually I get 27-30 MPG in normal driving and I just got 14.5 MPG over the Labor Day weekend towing the T@B. No, I don't look to travel at 70 MPH but I set the speed control to 60 and have no problem maintaining that. Also on our trip over the Cascades earlier this summer, including a very steep Blewet Pass, I got 13+ MPG for the trip and was able to maintain 50-60 MPH depending on how steep the climb was. Felt very safe up and down the steep grades.

...stan

TabyDD

As I'm combing through all the commentary regarding 4 vs 6 cylinder, I'm realizing the ambiguity rests partly with the LG folks and the marketing of the T@b.  Of course it's great to think that most vehicles (you don't need to buy a new car) will accommodate the average situation.  I think it's a bit of attitude (albeit altitude as well) as to what sensitive and practical travelers we all are.  It's great to hear positive feedback regarding trips with 4 cyls and finessing oneself through the mountains, regarding speed, temperature and packing sensibilities.  A question might be 'who's driving'.?  I hope we all gain comfort with experience and do your homework with regard to mountain passes. 

DD

T@Balong

Well said Stan.   Most of us don't have the luxury of driving the perfect tow vehicle which is used only for towing our T@B.   Truth be told, our towing life is likely to consist perhaps of only 10-20% of our driving.   Do I really want to give up my Subaru Forester with the manual transmission I love so that I can have more horsepower in the mountains?   And do I want to sacrifice at least 10mpg for the 80-90% of the time I am not towing my T@B?   As long as I am within the weight limits of my Forester, and at 2400 pounds I think I am, I am content for the time being to continue driving my Forester.

tabou

Hi guys I'm a new t@b owner from the province of Quebec in Canada in fact it's a clamshell 2015 and my car is a Subaru outback 2012 we are on a road trip in USA and so far from Canada to Washington DC traveling by the i 87 and 81 with all the mountains we had no problems towing the T@b and most of the time keeping the speed limit

Michigan_Mike

foxhilly said:

We just went for our maiden trip, towing our new T@B with a 4 cyl. 2003 Outback. (Which was given the go-ahead for the tow by the dealership and an impressed mechanic before the trip. The outback was in great condition.)

We were planning on upgrading soon, but decided to give the Subaru a go to see if she could handle it- only to trade it in for a truck on our journey back home! There were many reasons for this, and perhaps we could have made it home safely, but it was just far too stressful. The hills pushed us down to 40-50 mph, our mpg was about 10-11. We had to deal with almost constant shuddering from the hitch anytime we went down large hills, and sometimes up hills-which felt like it was from the trailer speed trying to align to the car speed due to the small size of the car. It could have been something else, I'm not a mechanic.

We were traveling from Minneapolis, MN, to McCall, ID and back, by the way. SO MANY giant hills. Those hills and the mountains seemed to be too much for the outback. On the first morning of our way back, we came terrifyingly close to hitting a deer, and the sound and shake of the outback during the emergency braking made the experience even scarier. (Even with the brake control we had installed in the outback.) 

After that the brakes weren't reacting the same, and we really didn't want to do any more damage to the outback. So we bought a Tacoma in Missoula, MT, and traded our outback in for more than we bought her for in TX! It was a win win. (We wanted to have a truck anyway...)

The outback did surprise us on being able to tow the trailer at all, but the distances, inclines, and altitudes we pushed her too were just more than she was made for. And we plan on many more trips, including even more/higher mountains. If you're only going to pull the trailer short, flat distances every so often, you'll be great. But prepare for issues if you plan on many long haul road trips. If anything, DO go for the larger engine. 

I know that the older outbacks have lower tow capacities- so I'd check to see what the new ones are as well. Remember to add gear, people, pets, etc. to the dry weight of the trailer. Our 2015 S model is 1600 lbs dry.

The above account pretty well underscores the need to fully evaluate your vehicle's capabilities when pulling any load.   I traveled the same route out to McCall as Foxhilly and know EXACTLY how it felt as I was pulling an extended frame 5x10 Silver Shadow and prayed that my brakes would hold up and withstand the extremely long and tenuous descent out of the Bitter Root Mountains as I drove down the mountainside to White Bird, Idaho.  I consider myself a seasoned veteran so far as hauling these trailers as I had previously spent 40 years with the power company in Michigan and have hauled heavy equipment around for many years and have been up and over virtually every mountain pass in Colorado and beyond.  

My point with the above and I have mentioned this before over in the Little Guy forum, you can most certainly pull these trailers with smaller vehicles, get them rolling comfortably down the road, but you also have to be able to stop the trailer too.  Braking and the ability to control the load being pulled and to stop it is probably the most important and critical factor of any trip.  The engine and transmission components are heavily taxed too via stresses created in uphill ascents and the heating of the transmission parts and torque placed on all engine components.  I know first hand as I had to replace a transmission on my former 2004 Monte Carlo after towing a 4-wide Little Guy approximately 13,000 around the US from coast to coast.  I replaced the transmission and purchased a 5-wide Little Guy, did virtually the same (actually went over the 1000# vehicle tow rating) and ended up selling the car after experiencing some unusual RPM fluctuations while driving the vehicle without a trailer in tow.  And if you've ever experienced the empty, helpless, anxiety filled and sad feeling when being stranded 2000K+ miles out and away from your home base you know exactly what I am referring to.  

I have been over many mountain ranges and scaled the Rockies many times in my lifetime, but will have to admit that the descent out of the southern end of the Bitter Root Mountains has to be one of the longest downhill runs I have ever made and it never seemed to end!  I was sweating bullets on that run and hoping that my brakes would hold on and not begin to fade.  I had shifted down into a lower gear range too, but this road went on and on and on!!!   Having a vehicle heavy enough and rated for the load pulled is important, as is having the engine to do it.  I have experienced and seen what happens in braking events, as although the brakes will lock up, the load continues to push the vehicle down the road.  And should you have to veer out of the way for a deer or another vehicle, catastrophic events can happen and this includes both the vehicle and trailer rolling over.  Ask Verna about that and even Mary Van Dusen (from Arizona) as both ladies had serious events, serious damage to their trailers & components and were fortunate to not be injured.   

         

Enough of my missive above and hopefully people will think about some of these things, whether your vehicle is capable of safely hauling the load, the road traveled, the ability to brake and respond to events on the highway whether on dry pavement or wet, slippery surfaces and the mechanical implications therein.....  

Verna

Seriously, I feel if I had a smaller vehicle, other than my 2012 V6
Escape when I swerved to miss the SUV after leaving the Tearstock last month, that I would have lost control and rolled both the teardrop and the tow vehicle when my Silver Shadow was only on one tire. I truly believe the weight of the Escape made it easier to regain control of the Silver Shadow, although it sure didn't seem that way at the time. The Escape is a V6, able to tow 3,500 lbs and I wouldn't want to tow the Silver Shadow with a smaller vehicle with a smaller engine. I can understand wanting to save money on gas and vehicle payments, but do you really want to jeopardize your life and those around you? A fellow teardrop owner who is an RN was following me. As my near miss unfolded in front of her, she was convinced she would be pulling my body and that of my dog out of the wreckage. Luckily, the only damages are a blown tire, a damaged rim, damaged trim on the fiberglass fender, and a damaged axle. All of these are in the process of being replaced.


And those pictures, Mike, are very sobering, especially the roofs of the vehicles that are larger than mine,.

Frontier

My wife wants a scubedoo but we have a mNissan Frontier 4 cyl with an auto transmission! I know a 4 cyl std transmission will pull the T@B alright but that 4 cyl and auto transmission puts a bit of trepidation in my old heart. It is rated for 3500# but still...

Deltaboy59

I pull with a 4 banger and feel safe and confident.
Love the mpg...avg15...
So many variables make up a safe towing experience.
Many schools of thought.
Many more opinions.
NHSI states 70 percent of all towing accidents are related to tire wear or over / under inflation.
Excessive speed is number 2.
Looking at accident pics does nothing to support choices of TV.
Ironically those pics above are of full size vehicles.
My point is there are many other variables other than TV size that factor considerably more.
Have no plans to spend the cost of another t@b just to "upgrade" my TV. 
While it may may make you Feel safer, statistics, would indicate you should focus on tires, speed etc.

Michigan_Mike

That's certainly your choice (and opinion) DB and having traveled long inclines when traveling through the mountains and beyond I know personally what it feels like and what I have experienced in pulling these trailers over 40K+ miles from coast to coast and coupled with a career of hauling heavy equipment, pole loads, transformers, etc.  It's not a good feeling when your shorts pucker up coming down an incline out of the Bitterroot or Rocky mountains, realizing that even with a vehicle rated for the tow that your brakes are being compromised via gravity and the resulting push.

Statistics "are a part" of the equation too.  Experience and familiarity in traveling varying roadways comes into play as well, along with changing weather conditions, road surfaces, animals, etc.  Common sense goes a long way too....