Homeless folks in the forest...

ChanW

NY-Times: Homeless people resorting to federal forests. Here's a tough picture of a social problem in our country... 
But it makes me wonder if it's only a problem of scale, with our bigger population these days (as well as the large population of 'homeless').
I myself might have been considered "homeless" in the seventies, when I was squatting in an old abandoned mining cabin on Forest Service property in the mountains of Montana. No one at that time minded (except the Forest Service complained now and then), people of my ilk were actually pretty common, and the lifestyle was looked upon as almost 'romantic' by some. "Living off the land" as it were, though I know now how naive I was...

Nomad

Haven't run into any in the forest as I usually don't boondock there but have run into them SW on BLM land. Most were ex druggies, a couple slightly mental. So far none have been threatning in any way. There's been a couple that I'd rather sit around a campfire with than some of the people I've met in big rigs :-)

jkjenn

It's tough for people in NYC to understand life beyond their own neck of the woods, sometimes. I agree with what you said, there are a lot more transients these days. Recently, in Grand Junction, CO, I came across a guy, who looked to be about 22-25 years old, and his dog. He was begging for a ride to the west coast. I stopped and talked to him a bit. It was obvious that he was high. He had no plans of looking for work, and was content living like that. There might be some that are homeless because they have no home, no job, and they want their circumstances to change, but I have yet to come upon them. I have come upon many, many transients who choose that way of life.

I know Larimer County had a similar problem near Red Feather Lakes but they have cleaned it up. If the counties sent officers to patrol, cite, and arrest, regularly, the problem would likely clear up as if you read things some of these folks say, they do not want to encounter law enforcement.

I managed a halfway house and did mental health case work when I was young, so I am not ignorant nor unsympathetic to those with mental health or addiction issues. I think there is likely a fair amount of substance abuse at play, here, but if you have worked with or known an addict, you know that you can't force them to get help, they have to want it.

It's hard not to be frustrated that they are ruining it for responsible campers as well as costing the public a lot of money, not to mention the homes destroyed in the Nederland wildfire.

Nomad

There's vagrants and homeless. Two different animals from my experience.
See a lot of the former in cities/towns across the SW - begging on corners and hitch hiking.

Smullis7

We have a big problem with vagrants in the Colorado Springs area that seems to be getting worse.  Like Jenn said, they have no intention of getting a job.  One guy actually sits outside the 7-11 with a sign that says, 'Anything helps' behind which he is constantly texting on his smart phone!  So far, I haven't seen any in the forests around here...probably because they are too lazy to walk that far and there is no cell service.  :-\

ChanW

Yeah Jenn, I've usually felt the same way - that it is often, even 95% of the time, a choice that a person has made, to live that life. I know it was my choice, back when, and I took responsibility for the situation, and got jobs when I needed them.

I have a real hard time with the "poor me, I'm a victim" line, when too often it's a lifestyle that the person chooses to be in.

It's hard for me to know what the actual job availability situation is now, though, because, being self-employed, I'm no longer part of the 'job market'. ie: is there a job for this person, or that person, or this couple that has kids to support. 

I think the article did a good job of showing the situation from two sides, that of the "homeless" person, and that of the local folks that have to deal with him/her.

I picked up a guy hitchhiking the other day (which I seldom do anymore). He was probably in his late 50s or early 60s. I think he might have been called 'homeless', but he never mentioned anything about it. We chatted about how the mass-media seems to make an effort to scare everyone about hitchhiking specifically, and in general as well, in order to sell the "news", etc. He was on a quest to visit all the US Presidents' home-town museums in the country. Refreshing.

We also met a great couple at a NP campground in NM, who had been victims of the economic downturn, and had lost their home to their mortgage company. They didn't consider themselves victims however, they took what they had, and bought an RV. They Host at a State Park in the summer, and travel the west in the winter. Good for them.

But I wonder how many are in that predicament, and you know they can't all be that flexible.

We just count our blessings.

Nomad

My father used to say that until you've walked a mile in their shoes, don't judge too harshly.
As Chan says, just count your own blessings.

jkjenn

ChanW said:

It's hard for me to know what the actual job availability situation is now, though, because, being self-employed, I'm no longer part of the 'job market'. ie: is there a job for this person, or that person, or this couple that has kids to support. 

My niece moved to Boulder in January and works 2 jobs. She is young, not a ton of experience and no college degree.

My dad would occasionally bring home a hitchhiker for dinner. He even invited one, from the UK to spend the night in the house. Hard to imagine being able to do that, today.

People's choices are their business, but when they trash the forest, it becomes all of our business, unfortunately.

Nomad

I have a friend, a lawyer. His dad was a hopeless alcoholic. His last chore each night was walking the route to the bar to roust his dad from whatever tree he happened to be passed out under. His philosophy is that if he could make something of himself with that background/upbringing, anyone can. What he fails to account for is that even though his father wasn't a role model, all his friends fathers were. He saw hope/opportunity. Many have never had that.

Ramrod

Most are mentally ill and or drug/substance abusers. Many should be placed in a safe, comfortable inpatient facility for life. None to be found.

larrygon

I live in Flagstaff AZ and see quite a bit of "homeless" here camping in the forest and begging on corners. They have caused major damage from starting fires in the forest and a burden to the health care system from putting them back together from being hit by trains or cars. Will keep it at that for now.

sabel

Wyoming has a very harsh solution to the homeless.
It's called winter.

Nomad

MN also. Still have them though.
But I've noticed a lot of 20 somethings (singles and couples) and I'm not sure they're homeless or mentally incapacited. Seems more like a lifestyle choice. Heard they're called "travelers" and have get togethers kind of like the rainbow people but less destructive from what little I've read.

Verna

I ran into some tent Campers in AZ a year ago that had taken over the covered pavilions at a BLM overflow site. There were no picnic tables left to eat at, nor any shade for the other Campers. The porta Johns were terrible.....nuff said about them--YUCK!. Since they had children with them, I figured they were homeless and they were trying to get to warmer weather just as I was. It just would have been nice to sit in the shade to eat my meal. 

jkjenn

Verna said:

I ran into some tent Campers in AZ a year ago that had taken over the covered pavilions at a BLM overflow site. There were no picnic tables left to eat at, nor any shade for the other Campers. The porta Johns were terrible.....nuff said about them--YUCK!. Since they had children with them, I figured they were homeless and they were trying to get to warmer weather just as I was. It just would have been nice to sit in the shade to eat my meal. 

You would think they were homeless, but I have seen recent reports where there transients with kids and they said they chose the lifestyle in the interview, sadly. Not a great environment for kids during their formative years. Yes, the pioneers lived that way but we have a lot of studies that point to the need for kids to experience stability and consistency during their formative years.... and good hygiene.

Nomad

Ran across 3-4 families like that in Quartzite - parents were out on the corner begging, kids were off in the background playing with their dog.

Mr_Mrs_Gnome

That's what they say about us ultralight (Gear, not personal weight) long distance hikers. We spend thousands of dollars to live like homeless people.

leenscottfl

I spent 32 years as a Corrections Officer. There is a saying about homeless shelters. If you want more homeless build more homeless shelters. And many that spend a lot of time in jail will tell you that they go where they are treated well in jail. And they know where the good and bad jails are.

Michigan_Mike

Smullis7 said:

We have a big problem with vagrants in the Colorado Springs area that seems to be getting worse.  Like Jenn said, they have no intention of getting a job.  One guy actually sits outside the 7-11 with a sign that says, 'Anything helps' behind which he is constantly texting on his smart phone!  So far, I haven't seen any in the forests around here...probably because they are too lazy to walk that far and there is no cell service.  :-\

I was amazed at the number of homeless down in the Springs area when I was there in May.  There was someone on every major street corner with a sign and it was nauseating/irritating.  One black guy I saw on one side of town and he set up shop on the other end claiming to be a veteran, but I have my doubts as he looked plenty well fed, clothes were clean and have been down this road before helping people, only to find out it was a scam and they were crooks.  I give money to charitable organizations, am fed up with the addicts and young/able bodied people who could actually find meaningful work, but who choose this lifestyle rather than getting up every morning and heading off to work and being productive members of society.  There's no real way to distinguish between those in need and the con-artists and it wrecks it all for the needy as people are fed up with con games and schemes of just being lazy.  

Sorry if this sounds rather harsh, but it's reality and you see a lot of it in America cities across the land and many communities have passed laws outlawing it and am amazed that Colorado Springs and other afflicted communities don't do something similar to eliminate the panhandlers on every street corner.  

Michigan_Mike

We were leaving a restaurant (my brother, his wife and I) one night up in Flint, Mi and had a black lady come up to us (wearing nylon jogger style clothing) and asked if we could give her money, that she had kids over at local motel and needed to feed them, etc.  My brother looked at her for a second, said to her,"I'll do something even better!" and reached into his wallet, pulled out his business card (he owned a canvas & awning shop about a mile away) and handed it to her and said, "if you show up here in the morning I will give you a job!" She looked startled, tossed the card back at him and took off running the other way.....  True story!  

ericnliz

Mike, I agree. It's sad, but true.

gulfarea

There is a great video of lifestyles living full-time covering all kinds of RV's from class A'S to small trailers. In it one young couple states they live off of the generosity of others as their lifestyle. They will starve to death if they are waiting on me! Guess I am not a very nice man as all I can remember in my life is working on big hot tractor trailers trying to make a living. Art   

ericnliz

Ditto, Art! Thank goodness my kids learned hard work pays off! I was always taught that a good hard days work builds self confidence and the satisfaction that you were making your life better through your own hard work, not someone elses.

Nomad

I guess I'm more empathetic - not a sucker for it though.
Read where if they're begging for food money, offer to buy them a meal instead - If they decline, they're panhandling not starving.