Tongue box lock

Seaduster

Has anyone installed a lock on the Outback tongue box?

Rlethbri

Thought about it but haven't done anything yet. 

Tabaz

I installed a HomeDepot mailbox lock on top of the propane tub. Will send photo later.  Others cautioned having a locked propane cabinet in case the tank had to be turned off in a fire. I only lock it when away from the trailer for an extended period of time.

Tabaz

Used a step-drill for the hole.

Seaduster

Thank you... I luv pictures  

Cyclonic

PXLated said:

There was a discussion about that a while back - If I recall correctly the T@Bs used to have a lock but got rid of it because if in an accident or spring a leak the fire/rescue needs to get i there quickly. Can't recall if there were also legal issues.

The T@B's have never had a lock because the laws regarding locking the propane while in transit vary from state to state.  They will sell you a lock to replace the latch on the plastic tongue box if you wish, about $10, but will not provide one during manufacture.

Cyclonic

Thanks @OutbackAZ , I could not visualize how you installed one, makes perfect sense now.

Seaduster

I just want to lock the box when the T@B is in storage.

kmrotterdam

Cyclonic said:

PXLated said:

There was a discussion about that a while back - If I recall correctly the T@Bs used to have a lock but got rid of it because if in an accident or spring a leak the fire/rescue needs to get i there quickly. Can't recall if there were also legal issues.

The T@B's have never had a lock because the laws regarding locking the propane while in transit vary from state to state.  They will sell you a lock to replace the latch on the plastic tongue box if you wish, about $10, but will not provide one during manufacture.

Thanks. I just emailed NuCamp asking about the tongue box lock. I read someone was able to get one from Lowes. I'm not sure what type will work.

Verna

kmrotterdam said:

Thanks. I just emailed NuCamp asking about the tongue box lock. I read someone was able to get one from Lowes. I'm not sure what type will work.

nuCamp will not be able to give you a recommendation because then they would be liable if something happened and there was no access to turn off the propane. Owners who make modifications are doing so at their own risk. By you writing on this discussion would show that you are aware of the dangers of putting a lock on the tongue box with propane on it. We all know that whatever is typed on the internet is always there. 

kmrotterdam

Verna said:

kmrotterdam said:

Thanks. I just emailed NuCamp asking about the tongue box lock. I read someone was able to get one from Lowes. I'm not sure what type will work.

nuCamp will not be able to give you a recommendation because then they would be liable if something happened and there was no access to turn off the propane. Owners who make modifications are doing so at their own risk. By you writing on this discussion would show that you are aware of the dangers of putting a lock on the tongue box with propane on it. We all know that whatever is typed on the internet is always there. 

I keep seeing this on various forums, but I've never been referred to actual legal documentation. Can anyone provide proof of this "law"? I've only been able to find RVIA certication language, not a federal or state law, that prohibits locked propane compartments on recreational vehicles. I've also been able to find some state codes that mandate propane tank access doors have a warning label on the compartment door indicating the presence of a propane tank. I've also found state codes that mandate that propane tanks at commercial refill stations must be locked and not accessible to the public. I'll let the forum know what NuCamp says in their response to my inquiry.

JohnDanielsCPA

This is from the National Fire Protection Association Code:

Recreational Vehicles:

5.2.6 Ventilation of Compartments Containing Propane Containers.

5.2.6.1 Compartments shall be ventilated at or near the topand at the extreme bottom to facilitate diffusion of vapors.

5.2.6.2 The compartment shall be ventilated with at least two vents, each having an aggregate free area equal to at least 0.5 in.2 (323 mm2) for each 7 lb (102 mm2/kg) of the total propane fuel capacity of the maximum number of the largest cylinders the compartment can hold.

5.2.6.3 If the lower vent is located in the access door or wall, the bottom edge of the vent shall be flush with the floor level of the compartment.

5.2.6.4 The top vent shall be located in the access door or wall, with the bottom of the vent within 12 in. (305 mm) of the ceiling of the compartment.

5.2.6.5 Vents shall have an unrestricted discharge to the outside atmosphere.

5.2.6.6 Doors or panels providing access to valves shall not be equipped with locks or require special tools to open. 

Michigan_Mike

kmrotterdam said

Thanks. I just emailed NuCamp asking about the tongue box lock. I read someone was able to get one from Lowes. I'm not sure what type will work.

Your concern is understandable as I have 2- 6 volt batteries next to the propane tank and have thought about others possibly wanting to steal the batteries.  However, as Verna and others noted above, the front tub is manufactured that way because of the national safety standard noted above which nuCamp adheres to for safety and liability reasons.  

If you check on Amazon you will easily find the locks.  Lowe's and Home Depot will probably have them or can order them as well.  

ChanW

Thanks for finding that, @JohnDanielsCPA. Good info.

A hasp with a padlock would solve both problems. Remove the padlock on the road.

Nomad

ChanW - Doesn't 5.2.6.6 imply that there be no lock whether on the road or not?

Verna

Here is the official word from nuCamp RV Marketing in response to an email sent by @kmrotterdam and an email sent by myself:

"We have cc’d the Parts department on this email so that they are in the loop and can circle back to you.  We do sell a small circular lock; however, we do not advertise or proport it to be a lock for the tub perse.  There are US (NFPA/1192) and Canadian (CSA/z240) regulations that prevent us from furnishing a propane storage area that can be locked.  That said, we can sell you this lock that you can use for a variety of purposes.  Some have used it as you are describing – we cannot and do not advise it."

 

JohnDanielsCPA

I'm thinking there must be a way to come up with a system that locks the batteries and propane tank down while still allowing access per code requirements.  I haven't given it much thought; never had a problem.  But worth thinking about.

TabberJohn

JohnDanielsCPA said:

This is from the National Fire Protection Association Code:
Recreational Vehicles:
5.2.6 Ventilation of Compartments Containing Propane Containers.
5.2.6.1 Compartments shall be ventilated at or near the top and at the extreme bottom to facilitate diffusion of vapors.
5.2.6.2 The compartment shall be ventilated with at least two vents, each having an aggregate free area equal to at least 0.5 in.2 (323 mm2) for each 7 lb (102 mm2/kg) of the total propane fuel capacity of the maximum number of the largest cylinders the compartment can hold.
5.2.6.3 If the lower vent is located in the access door or wall, the bottom edge of the vent shall be flush with the floor level of the compartment.
5.2.6.4 The top vent shall be located in the access door or wall, with the bottom of the vent within 12 in. (305 mm) of the ceiling of the compartment.
5.2.6.5 Vents shall have an unrestricted discharge to the outside atmosphere.
5.2.6.6 Doors or panels providing access to valves shall not be equipped with locks or require special tools to open. This

This supports my post here: http://tab-rv.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/57868#Comment_57868
If you can dump water into your enclosed box/tub and it pools at the bottom, that is NOT a safe environment for a propane tank. 
The standard backless tub easily meets all the guidelines. After-market storage boxes do not unless you add ventilation and drainage holes.

ericnliz

JohnDanielsCPA, The propane tank sits on a metal brace underneath. There are holes to accept a padlock on the bottom portion of most metal propane tanks. You could drill a hole through the brace to accommodate a padlock that lines up with the hole on the propane tank (most tanks have either two or three said holes in the bottom support). I had one like this when I owned my tent trailer (brace with a hole to accommodate the lock). Just make sure you get a padlock with a long enough shaft to go through both the hole in the propane tank, and the bottom support brace. The batteries, I'm still pondering. Would have to be a pretty substantial box with a locking system, or a hefty hasp with a padlock.

JohnDanielsCPA

Thanks Eric. I'll try that!

ericnliz

JohnDanielsCPA, The nice thing about going that direction is that you're staying within the above said regulations in that you would still be able to disconnect the propane tank without having to undo an outside lock to access the disconnect.

kmrotterdam

I received the same email from NuCamp, and they will sell you a lock, but they do not say that it is for the tongue box (although it can be used for that purpose. While I did not find "laws", I found a "standard"  NFPA 1192  (National Fire and Protection Association) (like the person cited above) which addresses propane compartments. While it is not the "law," it is advisable to follow such prudent safety standards, and clearly manufacturers would do so for liability concerns.

JohnDanielsCPA

One thing to keep in mind with regard to "laws.". There may not be a "law" per se in which a violation would result in jail time.  I also can't say whether or not the NFPA Code shown above is a "law" with consequences for failure.  However, if you are relying on insurance to cover you in the event of a "fail," keep in mind that all insurance requires you to "mitigate risk," meaning if the fire department shows up to put out your trailer fire, sees the propane tank compartment is locked, then runs the other way as your trailer explodes, you have not "mitigated risk," meaning you haven't done what you can do to reduce the risk of explosion by making it possible to turn off the tank valves.  The insurance company will probably push back on your claim.  This happens, then people complain that their insurance company didn't cover them.  We have the responsibility to mitigate risk in our daily lives, like locking your house when you leave it, keeping your garage locked, securing your expensive possessions in some way; in short, showing that you did what you could to reduce the risk of fire, theft, etc.  Insurance is a "risk sharing" venture, meaning you do your part to reduce risk, and the insurance company covers you if you suffer a loss.  That's why I have a trailer lock; it's not so much to ensure my trailer doesn't get stolen, but at least I can say I "mitigated risk," so it's likely the insurance company will cover a theft claim without too much push back.

plchacker

JohnDanielsCPA said:

I'm thinking there must be a way to come up with a system that locks the batteries and propane tank down while still allowing access per code requirements.  I haven't given it much thought; never had a problem.  But worth thinking about.

I thought about a battery bracket that is lockable and a chain through the handle of he propane tank to lock it in place. 

gulfarea

I put an alarm system switch on the lid and the side door and a tilt switch on the tong. I leave the tong jack all the way down, if it is raised just a little bit the alarm goes off. Art

MiquelCamo

I have a locking cable across the top of the propane tank and battery threaded around the metal supports on each side. I originally just put it in there to store but it does a pretty good job of protecting both from theft.

Denny16

In California, the NFPA and RIVA codes are enforced by state regulations as outlined here: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=HSC&sectionNum=18027.3

I am sure other states have similar codes/laws enforcing the two national code standards.
It is best to be safe, than have an issue down the road.
Cheers