Dirt inside T@B

JohnDanielsCPA

We went on our maiden voyage this weekend; a 104 mile offroad (well, gravel and dirt roads actually) adventure into the Owyhee Canyonlands in Idaho.  We were amazed to open our door when we hit camp and find the inside full of dirt and dust.  We checked all the windows (all closed and clamped down tight [to the second notch, not the air breathing first notch]), the vent was closed tight.  When we got home on Sunday, we completely emptied the T@B and did a complete detail.  While cleaning out under the fridge, we think we may have found the culprit.  There is a vent under the refrigerator that is supposed to allow air to enter the refrigerator cabinet to allow the warm air generated by the refrigerator to escape out the side vent.  Coming out of that floor vent was a plume of dirt; looks like it had been pluming quite a bit.  My best guess is dirt got sucked in from the black scoop under the T@B, came up into the T@B through the floor vent, then exited from the grill above the lower cabinet door and entered the cabin that way.  I don't know to what extent the two vents in the front of the T@B would have contributed to this.  One other piece of information - we traveled with the refrigerator off, and the supplemental fan was not running.

The questions are, is my T@B missing a piece that is supposed to seal of that vent while traveling?  If not, has anyone else experienced dirt entering the cabin while traveling on dirt roads?  What have other people done to seal this opening off?  I have had other trailers and a truck camper on dirt roads and have never experienced this kind of dirt/dust intrusion into the cabin.

Tabaz

I've done lots of dirt roads with my Outback and have never had that happen.  There should be a bug screen on the round vent under the frig.  My 2016 does not have a "black scoop." Could be the aerodynamics of your TV are creating airflow to that vent.  Also, maybe blocking the A/C cabinet grill and A/C roof intake might help.  As a last step, maybe just put some foam in the frig vent.  This still leaves the side frig vent open, but that might not be the culprit.

Newfisher

Not a specific solution to you exact issue, we use 2" painters tape on all external doors, windows on rigs that see alot of gravel miles to campsites.

jgram2

IF, big IF- it was related to airflow turbulence from your tow vehicle, @Tardisman posted links to a video he made. His solution was "air tabs" used by big rigs. I haven't figured out how to copy and paste threads-it was in Nov of 2015. likely irrelevant to your dirt issue, but possible?

jkjenn

Tabaz said:

I've done lots of dirt roads with my Outback and have never had that happen.  There should be a bug screen on the round vent under the frig.  My 2016 does not have a "black scoop." Could be the aerodynamics of your TV are creating airflow to that vent.  Also, maybe blocking the A/C cabinet grill and A/C roof intake might help.  As a last step, maybe just put some foam in the frig vent.  This still leaves the side frig vent open, but that might not be the culprit.

Ditto. You didn't leave the Fantastic fan open, did you?

Tardisman

I had the same dust problem coming from the floor vent under the frig. We travel hundreds miles on gravel/dirt roads. My solution was to take cheese cloth and fold it into a square with about 6-8 layers and tape it over that silly vent. It still lets in air for the frig buy filters our the dust. Need to change it periodically. 

JohnDanielsCPA

I was pulling the T@B with a dually, so yes, there was turbulence, but not anymore than any other tow vehicle would cause.  That said, even if there was significant turbulence, dirt shouldn't be entering the T@B unless there is something open that will allow the dirt to enter.  As far as I can tell, the only openings would be the two round vents in the front (not sure where those go or whether they are "open," but understand they are connected to the refrigerator in some way), the side vent that acts as a "exhaust" vent for the refrigerator and the floor vent in the refrigerator cabinet that acts as an "intake" vent.   However, as I have not seen another post concerning dirt entry, I gather no one else is having this problem.

No, I did not leave the Fantastic fan vent open; everything was closed up tight; (door, windows, vent).  As all have foam or rubber seals (and are new), these should not have contributed to dirt intrusion.

I did call PV and was told there is nothing "missing" from the install; I thought there might be some kind of butterfly valve in the floor vent or a manual closure to seal off the vent.  They said to stuff something inside the floor vent.  There has to be a more elegant solution than that!

At this point, I will plan to come up with a plug for the "scoop" under the trailer.  There's no sense in plugging up the floor vent, because the first time I switch on the fan, it's going to pull whatever dirt may have accumulated in the scoop into the cabin.

Thanks all for your comments.

JohnDanielsCPA

Tardisman said:

I had the same dust problem coming from the floor vent under the frig. We travel hundreds miles on gravel/dirt roads. My solution was to take cheese cloth and fold it into a square with about 6-8 layers and tape it over that silly vent. It still lets in air for the frig buy filters our the dust. Need to change it periodically. 

I bought my T@B because I intend to use it, primarily, as an offroad trailer, so it will be subjected to dirt, mud, rain, etc. on a continual basis.  Interesting solution with the cheese cloth.   Does your trailer also have a black "scoop" under the vent (on the bottom, outside of the trailer)?  The scoop is pointed to the rear, but the turbulence mentioned earlier could still cause a "backwash" of dirt into the scoop.

TabberJohn

Any chance one of the windows was in the vented position?
All four handles can be locked down while the window remains vented (middle slot instead of inner tab).

JohnDanielsCPA

I know what you mean by "vented position."  No, they were completely locked down.

marknjudy

Not sure how elegant this solution is, but what if you covered it with something that needed to be stowed when travelling but you definitely needed when you were set up to camp. Maybe like the wooden cutting board? A  mat you put outside the door? Something that you wouldn't forget because you'd surely need it when you set up camp. Just a thought. 

JohnDanielsCPA

marknjudy said:

Not sure how elegant this solution is, but what if you covered it with something that needed to be stowed when travelling but you definitely needed when you were set up to camp. Maybe like the wooden cutting board? A  mat you put outside the door? Something that you wouldn't forget because you'd surely need it when you set up camp. Just a thought. 

Good thought!  Thanks for sharing!

irvingj

Have you checked the seal between the plastic fender wells and the floor? We had a fair amount of dirt intrusion that way....

Michigan_Mike

Your air conditioning unit is an area where air flow might be created in conjunction with the floor and side vent to the Norcold and could potentially create a vacuum type effect inside the trailer.  

I have traveled the entire length of the ALCAN highway and there were areas where dust was created and it was extremely heavy.  Let me just say that there's no way under heavy dust conditions as I experienced that you will completely keep it out, especially if you haven't taken prior measures (e.g., sealing off the above areas, taping vents, ductwork, etc.) to try and eliminate entry.  If you are traveling dusty roads and generating large amounts of dust and grit it will find a means of entering via a vacuum effect and it is going to be inside.  I doubt you'll ever completely eliminate it and when you go into these remote areas on dirt roads you will bring it home if you travel fast and generate the dust and dirt.  

JohnDanielsCPA

I have not checked the seal between the fender wells and the floor.  I'll check that.

ChanW

We use one of those those flat rubber kitchen sink drain "plugs", with a cast-iron skillet on top to hold it in place, removing it when the fridge ventilation is needed.
like this:

(We also put one on top of the shower drain when not in use, to slow the evaporation of the trap water)

JohnDanielsCPA

I had not thought about the air conditioner vent.  I have the cover (from Elsie) and attached it with Duralock strips, but there are still sufficient gaps to generate the "vacuum" effect you are describing. 

I've never been on the ALCAN highway, but most of the offroad "trails" I travel on probably rival (or exceed) the highway's dust and grit levels.  Understanding that I am "camping," I don't expect perfect, dust-free conditions, but what I experienced was pretty bad and not something I want to have to clean up after every weekend.  Hopefully, the ideas presented, above, will cut it down by 90+%.  I can deal with the remaining 10%!

After making some adjustments, I will report back after my next trip (another dust/dirt-filled adventure) and let you know how it went.

JohnDanielsCPA

ChanW, good idea!

Tink

We recently drove a few hours in a rain storm.  I later discovered that the floor under the refrigerator was wet. I assume road water got in through the floor vent.????

Homebodyatheart

@Tink what model and year of Tab do you have? 

BrianZ

Here's an idea I plan to use on the two refrigerator vents for next winter storage that might help.  I put the frig vent cover inside a 2.5 gal food storage bag & put it back on, but you need to cut two small holes in the back for the locking clips.

First winter I made the mistake of taping plastic over all openings using duct tape, which left a real mess of tape residue that was a pain to remove. 

Also working on an A/C vent cover, mainly to keep bugs out during storage, but the painters tape idea used together with a piece of corrugated plastic board made for yard signs cut to 10x22" could work for temporary dust protection.  I would not use duct tape though.

Michigan_Mike

Tink said:

We recently drove a few hours in a rain storm.  I later discovered that the floor under the refrigerator was wet. I assume road water got in through the floor vent.????

How much water accumulated there?  I don't think it is related to the floor vent.  I had the same thing occur, took it down to the factory for them to find the problem and they found that a screw was missing on one of the front exhaust ports used for the Norcold & stove.  You could try using a hose and spraying the front of the trailer, but am guessing that would be a potential entry point as the seams along the edges are sealed.  Check the caulk along the front window and the vent covers and douse the front of the trailer with a hose for openers.  

Tink

2017 t@b max s
@Michigan_Mike It was just enough water that the items we pulled out were wet underneath. We also discovered a wet area under the back bench. This was not discovered for over a week after the wet under the refrigerator so not sure if coincidence or related. The discolored vinyl felt like it might still have been wet. Or maybe just cooler to the touch? We had our cushions stored in the bench. When I first took the cushions out, I thought they felt a little damp ...(this was before I noticed the floor) but attributed it to them feeling cool to the touch.

db_cooper

JohnDanielsCPA said:

I have not checked the seal between the fender wells and the floor.  I'll check that.

We had the passenger side fender caulking fail last summer, but the dirt intrusion was contained to just that storage area, doubt that was your problem.  I re-caulked and backed it up with gorilla tape.

We didn't have much dirt under the fridge, and we don't have the black barrier that the newer T@bs have.  It sounds like the fridge vent is your culprit, but don't know why.

Michigan_Mike

Tink said:

2017 t@b max s
@Michigan_Mike It was just enough water that the items we pulled out were wet underneath. We also discovered a wet area under the back bench. This was not discovered for over a week after the wet under the refrigerator so not sure if coincidence or related. The discolored vinyl felt like it might still have been wet. Or maybe just cooler to the touch? We had our cushions stored in the bench. When I first took the cushions out, I thought they felt a little damp ...(this was before I noticed the floor) but attributed it to them feeling cool to the touch.

I had water run to the rear from the front.  I only experienced this during major rainfall events for extended periods of time when driving.  

BrianZ

You may also want to check your mixing valve bleed screw & other plumbing for leaks while under pressure.

Tink

@Michigan_Mike this shouldn't happen though, right? Water coming in while driving during an extended rain?
@BrianZ we are going to fill the water tank tomorrow so we can run water through the system to check for leaks. Thanks.
I already checked the wheel well and the seal is intact. In fact, we had papers in the bench seat and there was no evidence of water.

dragonsdofly

@Tink, the rear water leak (stained area) looks exactly like ours. We found the stains after the t@bs first winter. While at üCamp last year we showed it to factory people who knew immediately what the problem was. Not adequate caulking around the taillight areas. They removed the trim around the lights, cleaned out the little bit of original caulk in that area and recaulked, resealed and reassembled the taillight trim. It's been dry ever since. The entire fix took only 10 or 15 minutes. I can't speak to the front wetness, but the rear water intrusion is common enough that they knew just by looking what had happened.

Tink

@dragonsdofly. Thank you for sharing this. Wish I was going to ücamp this year.

Michigan_Mike

Tink said:

@Michigan_Mike this shouldn't happen though, right?

No, if you look beneath the trailer the cowling over the vent points to the rear of the trailer.  Water really cannot enter it while driving in rain so that isn't the issue.  I would inspect the front exhaust area, take the plastic covers off, install an exterior silicone caulk around that are and tighten up the screws.  But again, douse the area for an extended period of time, keep an eye on the area beneath the Norcold and see if this is where the water is entering.  If you are in close proximity to Sugarcreek and have the ability to schedule an appointment with the repair shop they will ferret out the problem and repair it for you.  Call Austin Jones as he is a great guy and will help you any way he can.  

Tink

@Michigan_Mike looks like we are about a 5 hour drive to nucamp. But maybe we can turn it into a vacation of sorts. Thanks for all your insights.