Forced to learn about Grounded vs not Grounded outlets

radren

I have had my little boy home a week, love every minute I have had with him and am learning so much I didn't ever want to have to learn without even trying!  I had a progressive brand surge protector hardwired into my T@B at the dealer. I learned that was a very smart thing to do and am quite proud of myself because I am usually behind the curve rather than in front of it when it comes to problems in general. I had plugged the yellow cord into the trailer and the house outlet earlier that day to get keep the Mouse House charged up.  After dark I went out to spend my first night watching a DvD and noticed none of the 110 outlets were working. The TV and 12 volt outlets worked beautifully but not a peep of power from the 110 outlets. I checked the surge protector LED readout and it was flashing.. E2...in RED. (don't lose the book with the code explanations by the way) which means "Ungrounded" power had been plugged into the trailer. Apparently this is a bad thing and my very protective surge protector would not allow the ungrounded power into the trailer's electrical system. So under duress, I have learned that to run the 110 outlets in our T@Bs, we need a grounded power source.  The problem was not in the trailer but my crappy HOUSE and it's poor electrical nervous system.  So to fix my problem, I am having an electrician to do the simple install of a grounded outlet.  I also learned that the funny looking yellow plug at the end of the yellow cord is 30 amps and to charge your T@B from an regular "grounded" house outlet, you need to connect a 15 amp adaptor (mine is black and says 15 amps on it somewhere) to the funny looking yellow plug before plugging it into the house outlet. I also found out that the red light on the funny looking yellow plug is supposed to be red and it means the cord is getting power. The "ungrounded wrong kind of power" but it was getting power. By the way, power cord companies take note...RED is a poor choice for saying something is working the way it is supposed to. I think a green light would have been much more reassuring. 

What I have not learned and is not explained in the instruction book is how to reset the LED on the surge protector to stop saying E2. Do I flip something or replace something or smack something to get the system to reset? Or do I just plug into the newly grounded outlet (after installation) and all will be well?  If anyone knows the answer or how to reset my wonderful progressive surge protector, I would be very grateful.

judymac

So if your house wiring is ok, we should put a 15 amp adapter into our plug before putting into house power? We knew we have to have an adapter. How many 12v outlets do you have in your T@B? I recall seeing 1 cigarette type plug in ours.

jkjenn

Radren - I recently had a similar experience with an error code for reversed polarity. All of the money spent on the protector was immediately justified! I also learned that is why it is good to have a back-up plan in case things don't work out as planned. I had a small solar panel (15 watt) with me, but will travel with the full size one once I decide on one.

I do always travel with my GZ Sherpa 50 and GZ Escape 150 for back-up power, too.

radren

Hi Everyone,

I just had the new outlet installed and as soon as it was plugged in, the LED read out changed to E O ( no errors) and the amps started showing as my little Mouse House started charging. The 110 outlets started working and now all is well in the world. Thanks everyone for your help. I also agree about a back up plan Jenn and will be adding solar sometime next year. I am hoping for a lighter weight suitcase 100 watt set up to come out soon.

jkjenn

Radren, Renogy makes a 100 watt suitcase, available on Amazon and Goal Zero just came out with a 90 watt briefcase panel.

radren

Thanks Jenn, I will check that out. What are you looking at now that you got rid of your renogy panels?  I am still interested in the mounted type but worry about weight. As I understand it, the major advantage is it is charging all the time.

jkjenn

I am really quite torn. 100 watts seems not quite enough, but I am not thrilled with the idea of carrying 2 panels. However, the suitcase footprint is a lot smaller than the full 100 watt panels. The Renogy panels are half the cost of the Zamp Solar panels. I am currently leaning towards the Renogy kit with 2 - 100 watt flexible panels. The thing holding me back is how to set them up at the campsite. Here is a comparison chart I put together to help me through the decision.

radren

I know Jenn, that is what I had been reading about the new flexible panels from Renogy being so much lighter. It still seems mounting them on the top of the trailer, especially if they only weigh 15 pounds would be the best of both worlds. No set up and charging through out travel time. Do you have a specific reason to want to set them up each time rather than mount on top? 

mash2

Jenn, the unisolar cells are amorphous cells (efficiency is lower).  I do like the ease of use (mine are mounted permanently and I don't have to even think about them.  The 128 unisolar is about 216 inches isn't it?  Not sure they would fit on the T@B (haven't measured, but I have two 68 watt panels that are 109" and it doesn't seem like there is enough room for twice the length on my '06.   

jkjenn

Radren, I don't want the permanent mount for 3 reasons:

1. I don't care for how it looks.
2. You are not always parked in the sun - without a permanent mount, you can move to a better spot without moving the camper.
3. I don't want the extra drilling into the exterior of the T@b.

I certainly understand the convenience factor and it is tempting. I did however, see a good idea of using suction cups to mount the panels on the T@b. This would give me the option of placing anywhere, even the site picnic table.

Mash2 - thanks for the information about the Unisolar panels. Amazon has them listed as 118" long. Maybe the bigger panels are wider? Renogy seems to be the best "bang for the buck", by far. I will say, I am still tempted by the GZ product. Those panels are very will built and super-lightweight. The price is higher, but it is almost 10 pounds lighter than the regular 100 watt Renogy panels, and 7-8 labs lighter than the Renogy suitcase panel. The limitation with using the GZ panel is that if you use the Guardian trickle charger (which I already own), you are limited to a 90 watt input, so you could not daisy chain 2 of the panels. I could however, use a different charge controller.

Tardisman

I purchased the Zamp 80w panel set from the Solar Store:  http://thesolarstore.com

Ordered on-line including delivery for $500. The Zamp is a really nice unit and well made. Includes a case, legs, controller and is water proof so if I forget to pull it in it doesn't matter. The 16 foot cord lets me keep my TAB in the shade and collect sun on the panel. We spend most of our time off the grid when in the TAB and this panel will recharge the typical power I consume in one day with only 3-4 hours of sun light. On a sunny day I get 4.9A of power.

Michigan_Mike

You need to be careful when purchasing solar panels as "not all panels are equal."   My point here is that solar panel materials "are different" and you need to do some research and know which materials used in panels will provide you longevity and best bang for your buck.  Monocrystalline panels are the most expensive panels out there and the monocrystalline plates are normally pretty heavy duty and the type used in government installations.  I have a generation 1 series Zamp, 80 watt monocrystalline panel that I have had for around 4 years now and recently upgraded my solar charge converter.  This upgrade has made a HUGE difference in my charge rate and the panel performs flawlessly, charging up my golf cart size battery much faster than previously experienced.  I spoke to Zamp owner John YoZamp on the phone and he pointed out the upgrades to their panels since I purchased mine.  I believe that they are now in "Generation 6" and they have made some nice improvements to their panels, although I still enjoy mine and it performs to my expectations and above. 

Here's a video of Zamp's unit and as you can see the solar controller drops down and is easily viewable and provides some good information on the readout. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IaZz6Q6GvA0#t=29

mash2

Jenn... I went off the spec sheet for them (just googled the model number).  The 128w seemed to be the same length sat the old 134's that are still around.  

Mike.  What solar charger converter did you switch to?   Mine is doing fine but I don't expect a lot from a $30 charger.   It has served me well, but I've known I need to replace it at some point.

Michigan_Mike

I have the same controller shown in the video....  I had to carefully remove the old controller and what I did was heat up the old adhesive with a hair dryer, carefully stuck a butter knife under the lip of one edge and pushed it along the seam to break it loose.  One thing you don't want to do is disturb the back of the panel by tearing the backing off.  It's important to apply heat (makes it a lot easier) along the glued edge, take your time and carefully remove the solar controller from the panel.  Once the controller is removed, you spray on some Goo-Gone and clean off the old adhesive. 

The new controller comes with some self-tapping metal screws (no adhesive is necessary) and installation is very simple as the small lugs on the back of the panel are marked (+ & -) and you basically hook up the new controller the same way the old controller was hooked up.  It is easy enough and there is a schematic of sorts built onto the controller and the instructions come with the unit too. 

What I did find however was that my panel leads coming from the panel are a tad bit short and the hinged portion of the new solar controller does not extend out as far as the model shown in the video.  That's certainly not an issue as you can still operate and monitor the solar controller and the digital readout is very nice and shows how the unit is performing.  I might contact Zamp and see if they will send me out longer leads to allow for greater movement of the hinged solar controller.  The controller is just over $100 but is worth the money as it increases the efficiency and charge capability of your solar panel.  In direct sunlight my reading was steady (around 14.4 volts) and didn't fluctuate as much as the old controller.  I can't wait to use it out west or in Florida! 

mash2

Thanks.