Replace a 2-Way(110V, 12V) with a 3-Way(+Gas) - Is it possible? What are Options? 12V vs Gas vs ARB

Hops

I am new to the Forum and a New T@B Enthusiast Camper. Anyone have experience with putting a 3-Way refrigerator in a T@B that came with a 2-Way?  Is it possible to make that switch.  Or, are T@B owners thinking a gas refrigerator is not necessary for extended camping.  

dragonsdofly

@Hops, your question is completely model related. I understand that 2 way fridges were standard installations in the clamshells and 3 way fridges were standard in the inside kitchen models, although some were or are being built customized. I could be incorrect, but have read here that it is not possible to install a 3 way fridge in a clamshell, but is possible to upgrade to an ARB unit which is more energy efficient. I defer to others who have much more technical knowledge about the subject. Please post the model of t@b you have so we know the details and can properly answer your question or point you in the direction of an answer.

dragonsdofly

Btw, welcome and congratulations. Happy t@bbing!

Michigan_Mike

Hi Hops,

I believe that converting your trailer from a 2-way to a 3-way frig would be something the factory would be best suited to do.  Since the 3-way is propane fueled this would require venting and exhaust/intake ducts and to disturb the integrity of the trailer skin and body would be tricky.  The real issue here is not only the cuts required, but the fact that water tends to find it's way into any crevice or opening created.  This mod certainly isn't for the faint of heart and if it were me, I'd consider buying an ARB (as noted above) or at least contacting the factory and discussing this issue with someone like Austin Jones or Marvin Raber as they could give you first hand accounts and their personal recommendations on how best to approach this issue.  

I LOVE the 3-way on propane as it's very efficient and very effective cooling when boondocking and off the grid!  

Hops

Thank you @Michigan_Mike and @dragonsdofly. The one I am looking at is an inside kitchen with a 2-Way. So, I think I'll hold out for a 3-Way unless I am able to find out if the factory can make the conversion. I also like having a front window but realize that can't be added in after either.  If anyone has more information about the refrigerator conversion let me know. Thanks. I am guessing that many Tabbers use a cooler with ice and let the 2-way store dry goods.

ericnliz

@Hops, Now you have MY curiosity all fluffed up! You said an inside kitchen with a 2-way fridge? Not sure I've heard of that one yet. What model T@B is it that you're looking at? My understanding was that the 2-way fridge was ONLY used in the rear kitchen clamshell (CS) models. Not afraid to learn something new, just haven't heard of that before.

Michigan_Mike

Hops said:

I also like having a front window but realize that can't be added in after either.  

The only thing I have seen on that end is the factory replacing a "fixed" and tinted front windows, with the newer style roll out windows.   And a few of our forum members have also replaced the fixed windows, replacing them with the roll-out style windows.  

Verna

The only two-way fridges I know of inside would be the DM (Dutchman) T@B built prior to 2011, unless it was a special order from nüCamp/Pleasant Valley. Front windows did not become standard until the 2015 models. 

Hops

@ericnliz a 2007 DM Q model. The model has AC but a 2-Way fridge. It was an option to put in a 3-way and it seems like some people did upgrade while many did not.  It is a bit of a challenge to find one with AC, a 3-Way refrigerator, and a front window.  But...they are out there.

Roamey

OPTIONAL FEATURES

• Norcold 3-Way Fridge

• 15” Monitor w/DVD/AMFM

• Side Portal Window

• Any Color Trim Choice

The T@B is B@CK

• Storage Cover

• Side Awning

• External Shower

• 2.5 gal Hot Water Heater

• 19 gallon Gray Water Tank

The above is from the Little Guy brochure about the T@B is back. This affirms that the 3-way was an option. 

ericnliz

@Hops & @Roamey, Thanks for the info....never too well seasoned to learn new stuff!

Hops

What if it was an option on a "2015 T@B Q floor plan" but the owner opted for the 2-way --> do we think maybe the ports and vents are in place but just not used, so a replacement would be easier. Or, as I am guessing from this thread, the whole trailer is different so a gas fridge doesn't go in.

Roamey

Here is a 2015 Q with 12 volt fridge. Sorry, I don't see any vents. Good thought, but it couldn't be that easy.

Hops

Thanks @Roamey you are right not that easy. The dealers tell me the cabinetry and vents and gas line ports would need to be added. The dealer says not to worry about a 12v but I'm thinking a 12v will not be much of a refrigerator for long if it is not plugged in. Perhaps those with a 12v can let me know what happens when you're camping and not plugged in to 110v. Thanks everyone.

Marceline

Hops said:

Thanks @Roamey you are right not that easy. The dealers tell me the cabinetry and vents and gas line ports would need to be added. The dealer says not to worry about a 12v but I'm thinking a 12v will not be much of a refrigerator for long if it is not plugged in. Perhaps those with a 12v can let me know what happens when you're camping and not plugged in to 110v. Thanks everyone.

I have a CS with a 2way fridge. I have a 100w suitcase solar panel. It usually keeps up with the fridge (set at 3) but I have had issues when there hasn't been enough sun (fog, dense tree cover).  It might be cheaper to buy a generator than to try to swap out the fridge. Or, if its just a couple of days, use a cooler.

irvingj

"...12v will not be much of a refrigerator for long if it is not plugged in..."

Most often true, but it depends on the amount of storage (battery) you have, and whether or not you can recharge in situ. Changing those two parameters might be easier than converting to a 3-way fridge.

Our T@B replacement has a Nor-Cold 2-way (12VDC). We run it 24/7. Our Roadtrek does, however, have 4ea. 6V 190AH batteries in series-parallel, along with 300W of solar on the roof. Also has an "underhood generator," an additional alternator tasked to coach batteries only.

That said, we have no problem staying put, unplugged (and not running the engine), for several days, along with other electrical uses (exhaust fan and/or heat, water pump, lights, etc.) -- providing, of course, we get some sun.

Take-away: If you have some way to recharge and a reasonable amount of electrical storage, a 12VDC fridge can work very well; we love ours. On a T@B, battery storage might be the biggest issue, and some sort of solar would be a big help.

Geo

@Hops, All DM T@B's with the front window only came with the 2-way fridge. An issue with proper venting and no fumes into the trailer.

Michigan_Mike

The ARB 12V -110V Frig/freezer is a viable option as it draws an intermittent 1.35 amps per hour from a 12 volt power source.  I have used my 50 qt. unit in extreme heat out in Arizona and it performs exceptionally, keeps produce fresh/crisp and eliminated the ice/floating cooler food issue completely.   I keep this in the bed of the pick-up and it backs up the Norcold 3-way frig in my trailer.   

Hops

I have appreciated all the insight learned from your experience. It seems each T@bber that doesn't have a 3-Way refrigerator has some sort of back-up plan for refrigeration if they are not around 110V. It was interesting that DM with 3-way did not come with a front window.   @Michigan_Mike @Geo @Marceline @irvingj @dragonsdofly
@ericnliz @Roamey  

Roamey

All the T@B 400s are limited to 2-way refrigerators, all owners must have fallback procedures to to keep them working. 

Verna

I bought my 50 qt ARB when I had my Silver Shadow Teardrop, right after I lost $50 worth of food in a 5 day cooler that couldn’t keep the food cold enough. I have never once regretted purchasing my ARB. It sits in my back seat and stays there from December to April, plus other times I camp. I mostly run it on 12V to the extra Zamp (SAE) plug on my tongue box, but I also carry a 40’ medium duty extension cord if I have an electrical site. 

The ARB allows me to keep frozen meat and/or leftovers indefinitely throughout my 4+ month long travels in the winter, and during the summer.  I noticed my wireless thermometer in the truck showed 104* two weeks ago and the ARB was just quietly humming along at 29*.   Did I mention , I love my ARB?  It is so power efficient and well insulated that I cannot imagine camping without it. 

I have measured and the 50 qt ARB will fit into the space the 3-way fridge occupies in my 2014 T@B 320. It will need to go sideways into the cabinet. I would put it on a wooden tray with 100 lb slides, and I would order two cabinet doors from nüCamp to match the other cabinets. I would leave the existing 12V auxiliary fan with switch in place, plus the vent that goes through the floor. There is already a 12V connection for the 3-way, in addition to the 120V outlet. 

Hops

@Verna this is fantastic information. So if I read this correctly, when you are camping without electricity the ARB is plugged into the 12V battery on the tongue of the T@B.  How long do you think the ARB would work if plugged into a fully charged 12v battery. The website says it draws an average DC power consumption: 0.7 to 2.3 amp, but I do not know how that transfers to time in the real camping world.  Any ideas. 

Hops

I did find this: "How many amps does a 12 volt car battery have?

An average car battery has a capacity of around 48 amp hours which means that, fully charged, it delivers 1 amp for 48 hours, 2 amps for 24 hours, 8 amps for 6 hours and so on." Based on this it seems the ARB would last about 24 hours(per 12v battery) before a recharge. (or hooked up to a solar sheet)

Sharon_is_SAM

Hops, except that you should only routinely use half of your battery capacity before recharge.  If you don't have solar or a generator, you will need a much larger battery.  Even with larger capacity, most would need a method to recharge.

Hops

Thanks @SAM very helpful. After all this discussion I am thinking it would be better to have the 3-way(gas option) refrigerator. Yes?

Roamey

I may be in the minority, but I think propane is the only way to go. But in the T@B installation there have been well documented problems with overheating, propane blowing out while driving, and poor cooling in very hot weather.  In the new T@B 400, propane isn't even an option. Everyone camps differently and has different priorities. People have come up with their own way of doing things, be it ARBs, solar, different batteries, or rewiring and adding one, two, or three fans. 

Sharon_is_SAM

Hops - most people who plan to camp without hookups plan to use propane to keep a frig cold.  Since we plan to travel mostly out west where we can typically rely on sun for solar, we elected to have an ARB installed with our build in addition to a 150 amp AGM battery.  We have not tested it's limits yet, but hope to do so next spring.  

GeoMars

We're picking up our T@B S Outback next week, and I don't have it to take measurements. Has anyone installed an ARB in the cabinet where the original Norcold was placed? The ARB is 28 inches long, but the specs for the Norcold say it is slightly less than 25 inches. Does the T@B cabinet have enough extra space to install it on sliders? Verna says the ARB will fit in a 2014 320 S; is this also true for a 2018 320 S?

Also, have people tried the newer Dometic fridges? This review in 4xoverlandadventures preferred it to the ARB: https://www.4xoverlandadventures.com/2017-winter-fridge-shootout/6/

Thanks in advance for any help.

jcfaber1

We have a 2007 Dm t@b with the 12 v fridge.  It works great.  If you are concerned about battery life, the first step is to upgrade to 2 6V golf cart batteries for 220-230 AH rating.  I also use a CPAP and 200 watts solar to keep things running.  I also have the 50 Qt ARB which works well as a fridge.  When I used it as a freezer in the fall the solar did not keep up well due to rain and shorter daylight and lower angle of sun.  If you convert to propane, you will loose the handy cupboard to the right.  There are trade offs between the two fridges.  12 volt will run when not level and at any altitude.  If you run a search on this forum for problems with the 12 volt model, you won't find many.  The same is not necessarily true with propane.  The 12v only draws 2.5-3.0 amps when running.  It runs about 20-33% of the time.  You can run it while driving without problem.  I only wish it was larger.  If you don't have the CPAP drain, you should be fine.  My CPAP drains 20-30 AH per day.  I hope this helps.
John

Verna

Note:  there are cabinet configuration differences between the Dutchman 2007 T@B and the nüCamp 2018 T@B.  nüCamp does not have the small cabinet to the right of the 3-way fridge.  Dutchman also used a different model of fridge as compared to the newer T@Bs.

GeoMars

Thanks for the replies.

Yes, I'm mainly concerned about battery life. We're getting 200 ah at 12 v—AGM batteries, because we will be away from the trailer for months at a time. Also concerned about altitude, because we spend a lot of time at altitudes between 6000 and 10000 ft. We'll add solar after I have the fridge and have a chance to measure our amp-hour use.

Reading the forum, it appears that many people who have an ARB fridge keep it in their TV, but this generally isn't where the large batteries and solar are. How do you keep the fridge cold when you drive your TV to a trailhead for a day of hiking? Keep the fridge running  off the TV battery (perhaps 10ah for the day)? Or do you keep the ARB somewhere else in the T@B? Larger tongue box?