Boondocking Best Practices

jkjenn

We got on the topic of boondocking on another thread (http://www.tab-rv.com/forum#/discussion/621/red-light-on-alde-control-panel) and thought it might be helpful to dedicate a thread to boondocking, for posterity. I will start off with a few things we know about boondocking.

• What works off grid:12v outlets and accessories (TV, stereo, ceiling fan, lights, Alde - with propane, Norcold- with propane, water pump)
• What does not work off grid: A/C, 110v outlets, Alde - electric, Norcold - electric
• When using propane for heat and Norcold, the propane should last approximately 4-5 days
• Battery power is required for using both he Norcold and Alde off grid. In general, if the charge is below 11.2, the Alde will not have enough strength to work. The results are similar for the Norcold.
• The 11 gal grey tank will overflow into the shower on an S model or the sink on other models when it is over capacity. A portable waste tank (Telford, Barker, etc..) can be used to extend the time you can continue to use a grey tank. Some models have a ring on the Handel that will slip over the ball on your TV hitch for transport to the campground dump station.
• The 6 gallon black tank will not allow the toilet waste to be released to the tank when it is full.
• To preserve battery life, reduce or eliminate use of ceiling fan, TV, stereo, lights and water pump.
• Proper solar charging will recharge your battery. Many users report 120 watts minimum for those who are off grid and want to continue to use electronics. Solar will not provide you with any 110v usage (a/c, outlets, etc.) In order to use 110v items, an invertor must be installed.
• A generator of the appropriate power will recharge your batteries or can be used as a shore power source for your T@b. In addition to traditional gas only generators, Yamaha has a generator that will run off of propane.

ChanW

Various of the electronic items draw 'phantom' power, or power that you don't know about.

The following draw power even when not being used:
The TV draws a little even when off
The stereo also does
The Fantastic Fan is rumored to have a phantom power draw when off
A 12V cigarette-lighter USB charger can draw 100-200mA (and probably the USB power outlet that Little Guy installed in the 2015 model does, as well)
The Alde must also, with that electronic thermostat.

Also,
The CO/Propane detector (near the floor) draws a bit.

Anything I'm missing?

I'll try to get out there and actually measure the draw (amperage) of these things one of these days, and edit this post with the info. That way, things can be unplugged if they're stealing too much power.

ChanW

Note that the CO/Propane detector will behave erratically, beeping unnecessarily, if the battery gets too low.

The Fantastic Fan also is known to behave oddly when the battery gets low.

DurangoTaB

Even though we live in the beautiful sunny Southwest, we often look for campsites in the trees to keep cool in the summer & early Fall, so our 80amp Zamp solar doesn't always trickle a charge.  To Jenn's excellent summary...if I drop $1K for that Honda generator...how quickly can it recharge the battery?  If it's at a trickle rate, that could be many hours...

jkjenn

Chan, that's a good list. Apart from charging if completely disengaging the battery, is there a way to mitigate phantom draw?

J.D. that is an excellent question.

wizard1880

With my 2014 CS Max, I measured the idle power draw at 300ma, or 0.3a. That's with the stereo + 2 TVs, and the co2 detector, plus alde when off. I haven't tried to see if the roof fan has any idle draw.

ChanW

Jenn, the easiest way to stop "phantom draw" is to pull the appropriate fuses. 

Otherwise, install switches, or see if you can unplug things.

We unplug the TV (easy) cuz of the dang LED light.

The drastic way is to use one of those battery shut-off switches that disconnects the battery.

Wizard, re the fan: the info I saw might have been referring to an older model. Not sure about this fan in our 2014 model. Will have to see.

Nomad

Jenn - Great summary
To your point... "When using propane for heat and Norcold, the propane should last approximately 4-5 days"...
That depends on the outside temps. 4/5 when below zero (10-16 degrees) at night and cold during the day. When it's been 45-50 during the day and high 20s at night I've gotten 7-9 days. When it's stayed above freezing at night and relatively warm during the day I've gotten up to 14 days.
This winter has been below normal almost everywhere so far. The forecast where I'm at now is suppose to be back to normal for at least the next ten days (70/40). Will be interesting to see what I get on this tank as the Alde hasn't run all day and it was still 45 at midnight last night so it didn't take much to get it to the comfort zone.
I've also found that the Norcold seals up pretty good and you can turn it off for 3-4 hours with not much cold loss as long as you don't have to get into it often.

Nomad

Propane Refills are not created equal...
I was in an area where the only way to get a refill was trade in your current tank for a full one (Walmart is that way). I've found these vary somewhat and aren't always a full 20lbs. When possible, I always go for a refill where they weigh the tank.

jkjenn

PXlated, thanks for the clarification. I agree about the Norcold seal. If it gets\stays cold enough, food could also be stored outside or in a vehicle to eliminate the need for using the Norcold. In my family (in my upstate NY) , the back porch was the extra fridge for a god chunk of the winter.

Please report back on your findings. It is really tough for new users to get a feel for how long the propane lasts.

Nomad

DurangoTab - "if I drop $1K for that Honda generator...how quickly can it recharge the battery?  If it's at a trickle rate, that could be many hours"
That will depend on how low your battery has gotten. I've never paid attention to the T@B battery when running the generator as I usually have the solar out and am using the generator to recharge my electronics. Doing that, it takes 1.5-2hrs to take my MacBookPro from 10% to 100%.
Before I got the generator I ran into several days of solid overcast and drizzle so the solar output was marginal and the T@B battery got down to that magical 11.2 where the Alde shuts down. I connected to the TV and ran that for 30 minutes to get it back up over 12 and was good to go the rest of the night. Not sure that helps but it's something :-)

Nomad

BLM Dispersed Camping (Boondocking)...
If you choose to camp on free public lands (dispersed/undeveloped) - it's everywhere in the west - drop your T@B at the first open spot and go find your ideal spot in your TV. Even though you may see campers way out there, how they got to that spot may not be from where you are. The road may look fine until you make the next bend and you're looking at a steep, rutted, 4-wheel drive required gully (see pic). I've run into this twice and was awful glad I didn't have the T@B behind me - it would have been a long excruciating experience to back T@B out to a turn around spot.

jkjenn

I wondered how people found their spots, PXlated. Thanks for sharing. I might doing some of this when I am out west next fall, again. I started my preliminary planning today.

Nomad

Jenn - I use "Allstays - Camp and RV" app to find where they are in general. There's also the "Public Lands" app. Another nifty set of map apps is "ScenicMap", very detailed 3D topo maps.

RZRBUG

"BLM Dispersed Camping (Boondocking)...
If you choose to camp on free public lands (dispersed/undeveloped) - it's everywhere in the west - drop your T@B at the first open spot and go find your ideal spot in your TV."

I've always wanted to do this, but so far have found it beyond my comfort zone.  Sometime this summer, I plan to get my feet wet (or dusty as the case may be) and just go for it.   Up to now, I have always camped at places that involved paying/signing in somewhere first.

jkjenn

RZRBUG said:

"BLM Dispersed Camping (Boondocking)...
If you choose to camp on free public lands (dispersed/undeveloped) - it's everywhere in the west - drop your T@B at the first open spot and go find your ideal spot in your TV."

I've always wanted to do this, but so far have found it beyond my comfort zone.  Sometime this summer, I plan to get my feet wet (or dusty as the case may be) and just go for it.   Up to now, I have always camped at places that involved paying/signing in somewhere first.

I will admit, it us hard fir me not to make reservations when I am driving half way across the country.

Nomad

RZRBUG - Since I've been roaming and photographing what I find wherever I find it I'm usually camped in an abandoned farmstead or somewhere else in the boonies so not being in a campground doesn't bother me. But in those places I'm the only one there and nothing else close except the coyotes.
With the BLM dispersed that I've been in so far there's usually other campers. But they're all spread out and you don't actually see any people, just camper roofs in the distance. You don't really know who you're camping by. So, I know that feeling. I'm still not quite as comfortable with it as I'd like to be.
But, it seems each area/campsite is different. Some are more dispersed. Then there are some like Quartzsite, AZ where at times the campers number 100,000 and there's all kinds of associated activities going on.
I'd really like to hear from some more experienced BLM boondockers.

Wanderoo

I think it depends, also, on how much time you have while you are "wandering."  I have tent camped on dispersed land and never found it to be a problem; however, maneuvering and parking a T@B is a different story -- not as easy as pitching a tent.  I am still going to seek out that option when I am retired.  For now I will probably make reservations.  Much safer.

Nomad

Jenn - If I was heading to a specific spot for a specific period of time I'd probably do the reservation thing too. In my case though, the couple of times I've made reservations (usually a motel in a bigger city to shop and stock up) I've driven by some interesting things I'd like to have shot and kicked myself for making that reservation.

mash2

I use a backup system of lights, all run off of AAA batteries as my primary lighting system.  I keep a stock of rechargeables in the car and charge them with a car inverter whenever I'm driving (I can use lights for a week without changing the batteries;  with a backup set, I'm actually good for a couple of weeks before I need to recharge).  I put an off/on switch on the radio to limit power drain.  I have an electric frig (I personally like it better), and run it on a very low speed.  Propane is reserved for occasional heating and all cooking; I did not use up a full tank in 2 months of summer travel -- would be less in winter).  No TV or air conditioning (don't want them) so no power use there.  Dual batteries (200 amp) and solar on roof have served me for up to a month (admittedly, some travel between locations attached to TV).  I've got 10 gallons of water and a 10 gallon container for waste.  I'm pretty efficient so these last a week or 2 as well).  

My approach has been to minimize outside requirements so I have the freedom to boondock as often and as long as I wish.  Done some BLM camping and it's generally worked out fine (get there in daylight to make setup simpler).  The BLM locations vary pretty widely.  

I've put on 20,000 on the tab over the past two years and the only issues I've had have been created by my ineptitude...the tab has generally been a great mobile photo home base.  I'm still tinkering with the inside area (relocating batteries, new table and bed slats, installing drawers, etc), but I'll be putting on another few thousand miles in the spring on my way to another 10K year.  (only one flat so far)... 

Nomad

Like mash2, I have alternative battery-powered lighting. Use the T@B lighting when eating etc. but like a more subdued lighting when photo editing or reading. I don't quite get a week out of them though.

ChanW

PXLated said:

Jenn - I use "Allstays - Camp and RV" app to find where they are in general. There's also the "Public Lands" app. Another nifty set of map apps is "ScenicMap", very detailed 3D topo maps.

Pxl, thanks for the pointer to "Public Lands" - handy!

However, I can't find "ScenicMap", on Android at least. Can you tell me a different name, or who makes it?

Thanks.

mickietucs

There's another app I just found in iTunes called Boondocking. Lists places in relation to your current location. May come in handy as well.

ChanW

PXLated said:

Propane Refills are not created equal...
I was in an area where the only way to get a refill was trade in your current tank for a full one (Walmart is that way). I've found these vary somewhat and aren't always a full 20lbs. When possible, I always go for a refill where they weigh the tank.

Pxl, I've never gone with the propane tank trade-in system because, from what I understand, the trade-in bottles have a proprietary filler system and can only be refilled by the trade-in program. Once you have one, you have to keep trading it in.

Is that what you've found?

It's good to know that it's sometimes difficult to find someone to refill a traditional bottle.

A good reason to have a spare, and refill it as soon as possible! 

jkjenn

I also use a back-up light/power system for my electronics. I have totally ended up investing in several Goal Zero products. They cost a little more but are plug and play with each other and are very high quality. I use the:

12v Light a Life LED light, use either one of my GZ power packs or can use it with an adapter in the 12v outlet in the T@b.

Goal Zero Lighthouse 250 lantern, which also has a USB port to charge phones. The lantern can be charged via USB, external solar or hand crank. This is a very nice piece, but not cheap. I used an REI coupon + my REI dividend on this to make it more reasonably priced.

Goal Zero Sherpa 50/inverter  - small power bank I use to charge electronics. Can charge 12v or an adapter can be added to charge 110v. I can charge my Microsoft Surface Pro 3 tablet once with this or my phone a couple of times plus other devices

Goal Zero Escape 150  - this has been replaced by the GZ Yeti 150, but you can still find these around. I use charges both 110v and 12v items. It can charge more than the Sherpa. I could probably charge my Surface Pro 3 a couple of times with it or other things.

Goal Zero Guide 10+ - this little guy works a couple of ways. It has 4 rechargeable AA batteries that can be used for the batteries or the pack can be used the charge items via USB like your cell phone, GoPro, camera batteries, or other. It can be charged via USB or via a solar panel.

Goal Zero Nomad 7 - small folablem7 watt panel meant for portable solar charging. I generally use this with my Guide 10+ but have used it to top off the Sherpa 50. It is very light and was built so that it could be hinge on the outside of a backpack to charge while hiking.

Goal Zero Boulder 15 panels. I have one and just ordered a second one that was reconditioned at the factory. This little panel gave me a surprising amount of charge when I had trouble getting my big Renogy panels connected to my charger last year. It charged a dead panel enough to be able to use the fridge on propane. I use it with a Goal Zero Guardian trickle charger. These are extremely lightweight, strong, and small. Not a bother to take with you at all. Right now, GZ has some of these reconditioned at a very good price.

Goal Zero Maintainer 10 - my newest addition is basically a solar battery tender. It appears to be doing quite well. I will do a more thorough write up after I have had it a while. I don't know that I would travel with this, but you never know, it might come in handy.

I have also picked up 12v battery chargers for my camera batteries and GoPro to reduce power consumption when I travel.

It is interesting, because I don't automatically go to the Goal Zero products. Several I have purchased because it was a great deal (like on Woot) or because I had a coupon. But, I have been very impressed with the product performance and the customer service. They are based out of Utah. In addition to being big supporters of the outside recreation community, they use their products to help people after disasters and in impoverished nations.

 I am still debating on what route to go with my big solar panel. I like the lightweight flexibility of the Renogy panels, but to  be honest, getting the thicker gag wire into the charger was a real pain with my last set up that took up way too much of my time. It wasn't the type of thing that once you the wire in, it stayed, either, as even the slightest pull, tugged them out. I also, however, like the price. I think I have I figured out now, but I am actually considering the much more expensive Goal Zero Boulder 90 panel. Tat could be used with my Guardian trickle charge controller, but I could not add anything else to the set Io because the Guardian maxes UT a 90 watts. I am keep g my eye on reviews of the panel since it is newer. t is smaller than I prefer, but my experience is tat the GZ panels seem to deliver above, not below expectations.

mash2

I generally use the lights for everything.  I've got about 50 LED's throughout the vehicle (background light, kitchen lighting, cooking lighting, reading lighting).  I switch between them as I need light.  I keep a 12 port AAA/AA charger in the rear section of the car.  The photos show the initial setup (I've added additional battery charged reading lights on both sides of the eating area.  The stereo is turned on in these photos (I've sense moved to battery powered speakers and an IPOD with 20K songs on it (both charged in the vehicle when I'm traveling).  Computer charging is also a separate 2 pound hyperjuice device (because of the complex editing I do -- HDR panoramas use up to 100 image to composite a photo -- I generally wait for editing until I'm home.  Last trip I had 1.2TB of raw images to process when I got back -- a single picture may take up to 10GB when uncompressed and processed).  

Michigan_Mike

I agree, 10 gallons of water when boondocking is a good start and if you conserve it will last a while too.  I camped with a group north of Quartzsite and they dug a cathole latrine which eliminated that problem.  No, it's not for everyone but it was effective and when we left you would have never known we were there.  I spent 4 days out in the desert in 100F temps and depended on shade and the cool breeze that came in at night.  

I also use the low level/small LED lights for minimal battery draw and have the small LED blue/white reading/night lights in my trailer too which draw minimal power that is recharged via my 80 watt Zamp solar panel.  I recently picked up Zamp's new solar controller that gives you real time readouts and data and is more efficient in charging up my golf cart size battery in my toolbox.  

I think simplicity when boondocking and keep it simple often in food prep too as I have the freeze dried Mountain House meals on hand when I need to fix something quick and eliminate the worry about dishes, etc.  My ARB 50 quart frig/freezer works great and is a low amperage draw and I've been able to balance power needs/consumption and use solar to maintain things.   

Nomad

ChanW - Scenic Map may be an iOS app only - Attached a screenshot so you can see what to look for.
I've not found the trade-in tanks to have anything proprietary to them - at least the one Walmart and the others I've used stock.

Nomad

Oooops, forgot the image...

Nomad

mash2 - Wow, a 100 image composite. I thought I was bad at 20-30. Got any examples up online?

Nomad

MichiganMike - Am up in the Lake Mead area but thinking of heading down the AZ/CA border to Quartzsite - Heard it can be a zoo. Any boondocking areas or recomendations down that way?