Solar for my new Outback

royinmich

I just bought a TAB Outback and need some advice on solar power. I'm 75 and plan to take my last great adventure on an extended trip West. Utah, then North to Yellowstone, into Canada then on to Alaska. Being the neophyte on boon docking that I am I'm looking for suggestions on a solar configuration that would keep the batteries charged when off the grid. From what I've learned on the forum I'm thinking 2 6volt wet batteries and a Zamp 200w suitcase panel. The Tab has a WFCO Ultra 3 stage converter. Is it as simple as attaching the solar panel alligator clips to the battery?  I'm pretty sure I am missing something. I look forward to some great advice from you guys.   BTW, I'm really impressed with the wealth of information available on the forum. 

dragonsdofly

@royinmich, welcome to the forum, the t@b family and congratulations on your trailer! Adventure awaits, as well as the great folks and wealth of information to be found here. Good luck and happy t@bbing.

Verna

@royinmich, yes it can be that simple. I have two 6-volt golf cart batteries from Interstate giving me 220 ah (amp hour) of power, powered by the Zamp 200 watt suitcase. Zamp has the waterproof controller glued to the rear wall of one panel and it works extremely well. I have been in Southern Arizona since Christmas Eve without electrical hookups, just using my Zamp to recharge my batteries. I do not have a generator because I have not found a need for one. 

I do have an SAE plug connected to my batteries so that I just plug my mating plug on my Zamp into it so that I don’t have to use alligator clips. If you look in Walmart’s fishing department, you can find trolling motor plugs that are the same as a he SAE plugs that I use. 

Tabaz

The Zamp 200W suitcase weights 45 pounds and is a bit unwieldy when moving it around.  This is especially true considering the handle is in the middle and at the top.  So you must lift the handle up high to clear the floor of your tow vehicle.  Also, putting the panels into and out of the fabric case borders on being a two-person job.  Not a deal-killer, just something to be aware of.  The smaller watt Zamps are much easier to move around.  Any solar system will just charge your 12V batteries.  If you plan on using any 110V appliances, you'll need a separate inverter to convert the 12V to 110V.  These come in many sizes depending on your 110V needs.  You'll need to hardwire the power side directly to your T@B batteries.  The output side has outlets for standard 110V household plugs.  No solar system will be able to power the air conditioner in the T@B, so factor that into the time of year and temperature of your planned camp areas.  If you do need air conditioning, get a 2000W generator (about 45 pounds dry).  Hope this helps.

Crik

Even though I don't yet have one, after researching the matter, I plan on getting one soon, and I would really urge anyone that plans on using solar to check out the Battle Born lithium/iron batteries.  They are expensive, but sounds like they are well worth the money.  On board battery-management system for those, like me, that have little experience with solar power batteries.  They also weight a lot less than other types of batteries, and you can draw them way down without harming the battery.  Again, the only downside I've heard about these is the price.  

Just my two cents.  

dragonsdofly

@Crik, welcome to the forum.I see this is your first post. Do you own a t@b? Do you plan to? Regardless, this is a great site, wonderful folks and a wealth of info. Keep in touch.

Tabaz

Didn't someone post here that the stock converter in the T@B will not work with lithium batteries?

pthomas745

It might be this thread...too "techy" for me to summarize easily: 

https://tab-rv.vanillaforums.com/discussion/5575/lithium-iron-phosphate-12v-100amp-battery-anyone-installed-in-a-t-b

IslandJo

I'd consider a roof mounted solar system if you're planning on a long trip with a fair amount of sight seeing. You won't have to worry about your panel disappearing while you're away.

DIDOTAB

I too have researched solar power both portable Zamp 120 and roof mounted.  Most favorable is the portable because of versatility to move it around and capture most sun when needed - can't do that with roof mount especially if TAB is parked under trees for shade. Have not used it yet but when I do this summer but when I do I'm concerned about potential theft when  I'm not in camp. The unit cost me $650.00 - does anyone know how to protect them from theft? 

Marceline

DIDOTAB said:

I too have researched solar power both portable Zamp 120 and roof mounted.  Most favorable is the portable because of versatility to move it around and capture most sun when needed - can't do that with roof mount especially if TAB is parked under trees for shade. Have not used it yet but when I do this summer but when I do I'm concerned about potential theft when  I'm not in camp. The unit cost me $650.00 - does anyone know how to protect them from theft? 

I have a suitcase style 100w panel. I thread this cable through the molded-in handle.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BD8IQ4/

Tabaz

I use that exact same cable, but through a hole I drilled in the frame of the Zamp.

Verna

If you don’t use Amazon, Lowe’s has the same cables in their padlock section. Be sure to get a bit longer than normal of the locking part of the padlock course for it to fit through the frame and the padlock. I’ve had my 200 watt Zamp padlocked and cabled through a rear T@B handle since Christmas Eve...except for the time spent at T@Bazona, when it was padlocked a different way. 

4ncar

Tabaz said:

Didn't someone post here that the stock converter in the T@B will not work with lithium batteries?

It will not.

MuttonChops

4ncar said:

Tabaz said:

Didn't someone post here that the stock converter in the T@B will not work with lithium batteries?

It will not.

{{ My understanding from reading several posts here, power system guides, and lithium battery guides. }}

To Clarify. 

The T@B stock power system's charger feature does and does not work with lithium batteries.

Does . . . . it can be safely connected to the battery and it will charge the lithium battery to a point.

Does Not . . . . fully charge a lithium battery.  To obtain a full and correct charge a solar system (with lithium controller) or a AC powered stand alone lithium battery charger is needed.

So lithium batteries can be used with our standard T@b systems, one just needs to make sure you have an additional method to complete the full charge/balance operation at some reasonable time frequency.

CincyKid

So to summarize what I have read, you can connect the solar output directly to the battery but need a small controller to prevent overcharging the battery?  And a simple way to connect is to find a cable a WalMart in the fishing area to get the correct cable that will connect to the battery on one end and the controller cable on the other end?

MuttonChops

CincyKid said:

So to summarize what I have read, you can connect the solar output directly to the battery but need a small controller to prevent overcharging the battery? 

Short answer is Yes, you understand.
However some solar panels come with a voltage controller (designed for charging batteries) installed on the back side of the panel.  Other brands only have the solar panel and a few feet of connection wire.  You need to research which approach/products meet your specific needs.

CincyKid said:

 And a simple way to connect is to find a cable a WalMart in the fishing area to get the correct cable that will connect to the battery on one end and the controller cable on the other end?

Not a clear Yes, No answer.
A specific solar panel may or may not come with a connector installed on the wires.  If you are purchasing a Zamp product it most likely will have the build in controller and a Zamp Connector on the wires.  Zamp Connector is just a standard 12VDC two wire connector.  Zamp does make 'side mount' connector that can be mounted on the side of TUB (for example) so you have 'an outlet/inlet' to plug the solar panel into.

Walmart is just one of several locations that tend to stock the standard "in-line" 12V connector.

You can purchase cables that have Battery Ring Terminals are one end and a 12VDC plug at the other.  So when you set up your solar panel you just plug in.

You can also buy a short 12V male/female connector and some ring terminals and make your own.




On my T@B I've installed a 10W solar trickle charger.  Panel and controller purchased at Amazon, ring terminals and extra wire at the local hardware store.

Sharon_is_SAM

@royinmich. Two 6 volt wet cells is an economical way to get a large battery capacity which you need if you have extended days of overcast skies.  I agree with TabAZ in that you will tire having to move a 200 watt suitcase regularly.  We purchased two 100 watt Renogy suitcases.  They are 25# each and easy to connect together.  You can deploy 1 or 2 depending on your charging needs.  They are also a lot cheaper than Zamp.  If you use as little amps as my DH and I use, you may be able to get away with only a single 100 watt suitcase.  Plenty of people here on the forum that have boondocked for greater than a week using a 100 watt suitcase.  Depending on where you are camped will determine the safety of your unattended panels.  We also use a heavy cable with padlock as a deterrent.  You need a solar charge controller as well.  Zamp has suitcases with weatherproof controllers connected to the back of the panel. Renogy has suitcases with and without built in controllers.  Your controller should be as close to the battery as possible to reduce voltage loss and they need to be protected from the weather unless they are waterproof.  How you connect depends on how your charge controller is wired - attached to the panels vs separate.  Our charge controller is separate and we rewired the “Zamp” battery wires that now plug into our controller.  You have a lot of choices!

pthomas745

Here is a lousy photo with an example of one of my wiring setups.  This is the dead simplest way, I think.

On the left, out of the picture, is a 100 watt solar panel.  Just a panel, not a kit or a suitcase.

In the center (the greenish boxy thing) is the solar controller.  It is this Windy Nation controller from Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B015S39PTU/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Solar controllers pretty much  look the same, no matter which one you buy.  I bet there is only one factory in China making them.

On the solar controller, the two thick wires (coming in from the left) are from the solar panel. On the Amazon pictures of the controller, you will see the "Solar + -" slots. That is where the solar panel wiring goes. The thick wire with the red electrical tape is in the + slot. 

On the battery, I've used an alligator clip setup.  I bought one of these:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JOY6U7U/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I cut the cigarette plug off, stripped the wires a bit, and connected the red clip wire to the + and the black clip wire to the -. 

Wait for the sun to come out, watch your battery charge.

There are many different ways to connect a solar panel setup.  I think this would work pretty much on any battery anywhere.  Start with this setup and "graduate" to using an SAE setup, if you want.  But, you really don't need to.

Tabaz

royinmich - I knew nothing about solar when I bought my Outback two years ago.  Nothing, nada. So I wanted something idiot-proof.  I bought a Zamp suitcase because it plugged directly into a Zamp outlet already installed on the propane tub (no alligator clips needed).  The Zamp has a controller built-in, so no need to do anything else.  You take the Zamp out of its case, unfold it, extend the legs and place it facing the sun, plug its cord into the outlet on the propane tub and you're done.  I believe I read on the forum that NuCamp stopped putting the outlet on the propane tub with the 2018 models.  If so, you just need to buy one of these (only $12):

https://www.amazon.com/Zamp-Solar-RVROOFSIDE-Sidewall-Port/dp/B00T36YVI4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1522011988&sr=8-1&keywords=zamp+solar+plug

So far as securing the panels against theft, here is the cable and lock set up I use:

Good luck! You'll learn an awful lot about solar as you move forward.

Tabaz

By the way, you can see the factory installed Zamp outlet in the photo above on the propane tub.  Yours should be in that location.

dragonsdofly

@Tabaz, I understand the 2018 tabs no longer have the Zamp port included.

CincyKid

@MuttonChops Thanks for that diagram, explains it perfectly to me.  I want the 12V wires with ring connectors so I can 'permanently' leave the wiring hooked to the battery and just plug in the panel to the controller when used.  I have a 2018 Boondock and haven't noticed a solar plug-in spot so I am thinking it was not included.  I did find the ring cables on Amazon but the wattage rating is not very high for large panels but will work for my 15 watt/12V panel.

https://smile.amazon.com/Sunway-Solar-Connectors-Maintainer-Controller/dp/B073158Q24/ref=sr_1_33?ie=UTF8&qid=1522039503&sr=8-33&keywords=solar+cable

4ncar

MuttonChops said:

4ncar said:

Tabaz said:

Didn't someone post here that the stock converter in the T@B will not work with lithium batteries?

It will not.

{{ My understanding from reading several posts here, power system guides, and lithium battery guides. }}

To Clarify. 

The T@B stock power system's charger feature does and does not work with lithium batteries.

Does . . . . it can be safely connected to the battery and it will charge the lithium battery to a point.

Does Not . . . . fully charge a lithium battery.  To obtain a full and correct charge a solar system (with lithium controller) or a AC powered stand alone lithium battery charger is needed.

So lithium batteries can be used with our standard T@b systems, one just needs to make sure you have an additional method to complete the full charge/balance operation at some reasonable time frequency.

IMHO... if the stock converter does not bring the battery to a point of saturation or full charge, then it does not charge a Lio battery.  

royinmich

So much to think about..Thanks for the advice everyone. Think I'll start out small (but adequate) for my solar configuration. I won't be doing extended off-the-grid stays on my trip but I plan to to get away from congested campgrounds when possible.
How do I reply to individual posts of this thread??

jgram2

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Crik

dragonsdofly said:

@Crik, welcome to the forum.I see this is your first post. Do you own a t@b? Do you plan to? Regardless, this is a great site, wonderful folks and a wealth of info. Keep in touch.

Plan on buying a Boondocking soon. I agree, this is a wonderful site with lots of good info. Thx for the welcome!  Sure I will be posting more once I get the T@b.