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Possible to remove 3163 thermocouple without pulling fridge?

PhotomomPhotomom Member Posts: 2,217
in Air Conditioning & Refrigeration
When we put our T@B away last fall the fridge wouldn’t work on propane and sure enough it hasn’t fixed itself during the winter. A likely cause is the thermocouple and it looks like I can get my hand in there where the thermocouple enters the burner assembly (see photo). Does anyone know it the thermocouple just pulls straight out? Is it feasible to do this without removing the fridge? Has anyone done this?
John and Henrietta, Late 2016 T@B S Max in Western New York
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    jkjennjkjenn Member Posts: 6,391
    If you get out, will you be able to get it back in?

    2021 T@b 320 Boondock "Mattie Ross" | 2021 T@b Nights: 239 | Total nights in a T@b 455 | 2022 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Overland | T@b owner since 2014

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    PhotomomPhotomom Member Posts: 2,217
    jkjenn said:
    If you get out, will you be able to get it back in?
    Hoping to hear from someone who’s done it, but in any case there will be no harm done since it doesn’t work now.
    John and Henrietta, Late 2016 T@B S Max in Western New York
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    DalehelmanDalehelman Member Posts: 2,410
    If you can unscrew the brass fitting. Installation is just the reverse. A crow foot socket on the end of a long 3/8” ratchet might work.
    https://www.harborfreight.com/7-piece-3-8-eighth-inch-crowfoot-sae-wrench-set-94426.html
    1. Hash  T@B Fun
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    PhotomomPhotomom Member Posts: 2,217
    Dalehelman said:
    If you can unscrew the brass fitting. Installation is just the reverse. A crow foot socket on the end of a long 3/8” ratchet might work.
    https://www.harborfreight.com/7-piece-3-8-eighth-inch-crowfoot-sae-wrench-set-94426.html
    I’m not seeing any brass fitting on the burner end of the thermocouple. The parts diagram just shows a grommet and visually I just see a grommet. See my pic above.


    John and Henrietta, Late 2016 T@B S Max in Western New York
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    MuttonChopsMuttonChops Member Posts: 1,589
    Sorry, another non-answer for you . . . just questions.

    Agree parts drawing does not show any type of retainer part so it's logical that the thermocouple pushes into place.

    Why are you so sure the thermocouple has failed.  What tests have you done.  Can you see/hear the pilot light?   Can you confirm the flame goes out when the 'push knob in' for extra gas flow is stopped well after the thermocouple should have heated?

    '18 320 S,  pitched axle, 3020HE; PNW based
    TV: '17 Colorado V6 Z71 4x4, Tow Package, GM Brake Controller
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    PhotomomPhotomom Member Posts: 2,217
    MuttonChops said:
    Sorry, another non-answer for you . . . just questions.

    Agree parts drawing does not show any type of retainer part so it's logical that the thermocouple pushes into place.

    Why are you so sure the thermocouple has failed.  What tests have you done.  Can you see/hear the pilot light?   Can you confirm the flame goes out when the 'push knob in' for extra gas flow is stopped well after the thermocouple should have heated?

    Not sure but it was 40 degrees out there so I took a quick look instead of doing the troubleshooting chart. I recall reading here that the fridge had to be pulled so I was surprised that it looked like it might be accessible.
    John and Henrietta, Late 2016 T@B S Max in Western New York
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    DalehelmanDalehelman Member Posts: 2,410
    @Photomom I think you are correct it appears to just push in. I think there are little barbs on the sides that hold it in place once it is in place.
    1. Hash  T@B Fun
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    MuttonChopsMuttonChops Member Posts: 1,589
    @Photomom

    Do you have copy of the 3163 Service Manual ?
    I found on on-line.

    It shows a 1-Amp Fuse in the Propane Gas Control circuit.
    Would definitely check that fuse.

    The Service Manual troubleshooting flowchart also has Thermocouple Failure near the end . . . lots of other possible causes before that.



    https://www.manualslib.com/download/737837/Norcold-3163.html


    '18 320 S,  pitched axle, 3020HE; PNW based
    TV: '17 Colorado V6 Z71 4x4, Tow Package, GM Brake Controller
    Adventures:  51   Nights:  322  Towing Miles 41,200+
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    PhotomomPhotomom Member Posts: 2,217
    Just need it to warm up a bit. Supposed to snow again tomorrow.
    John and Henrietta, Late 2016 T@B S Max in Western New York
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    RatkityRatkity Member Posts: 3,770
    It's near impossible to reach the thermocouple. Please don't push or pul on the copper line. It's rare the thermocouple goes out unless you run the frig constantly. You have to pull the frig out to reach it. It is in a sealed housing. Even if you can get the first layer off, there's a second layer (not sure if I'm explaining it right - brain cell death from work). Most people who have propane starting issues find the circuit board is the culprit OR the fuses on the circuit board.

    Best of luck to you. 
    2017 820R Retro Toy Hauler from 2015 Tabitha T@B from 2009 Reverse LG Teardrop (but a T@Bluver at heart)
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    PhotomomPhotomom Member Posts: 2,217
    Ratkity said:
    It's near impossible to reach the thermocouple. Please don't push or pul on the copper line. It's rare the thermocouple goes out unless you run the frig constantly. You have to pull the frig out to reach it. It is in a sealed housing. Even if you can get the first layer off, there's a second layer (not sure if I'm explaining it right - brain cell death from work). Most people who have propane starting issues find the circuit board is the culprit OR the fuses on the circuit board.

    Best of luck to you. 
    Hmmm. Well that’s why I asked:-) Have you had the experience of removing it?

    The word you’re looking for is “bimetallic.”
    John and Henrietta, Late 2016 T@B S Max in Western New York
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    RatkityRatkity Member Posts: 3,770
    bimetalic, nope. I mean the housing. Layer was the only word that came to my mind.

    There is a double housing. I managed to get the first housing off of it doing T@B yoga thru the sink panel. I have a bunch of magnetic tools and bendy ones.... imagine my vocabulary when MY frig had another housing over it and there was no way i could get to it. This doesn't mean your frig is the same. I had an early 2015 T@Bitha. My issue at the time was simple and thanks to this forum, I then knew to level everything.

    The next issue was the grommet has a glass window in it. When I went to examine where the thermocouple existed, the grommet was NOT in it's designated spot. Geesh. Don't let it escape its hole!! I couldn't count the number of bruises on my arms and the body contortions and TIME it took to get it back in that itty bitty tiny hole. I did it though. My vocabulary went beyond sailor-ish by the time I was done. I think it was nearly 2 am. I used every trick to get a grommet in (special grease on one side, angle it went in, prayer, ancient rituals). I was considering a sacrifice at one point, but then I realized I'd already sacrificed a few back muscles. It finally popped in - sigh of relief.

    Don't touch the grommet!!! :)
    2017 820R Retro Toy Hauler from 2015 Tabitha T@B from 2009 Reverse LG Teardrop (but a T@Bluver at heart)
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    PhotomomPhotomom Member Posts: 2,217
    Ratkity said:
    bimetalic, nope. I mean the housing. Layer was the only word that came to my mind.

    There is a double housing. I managed to get the first housing off of it doing T@B yoga thru the sink panel. I have a bunch of magnetic tools and bendy ones.... imagine my vocabulary when MY frig had another housing over it and there was no way i could get to it. This doesn't mean your frig is the same. I had an early 2015 T@Bitha. My issue at the time was simple and thanks to this forum, I then knew to level everything.

    The next issue was the grommet has a glass window in it. When I went to examine where the thermocouple existed, the grommet was NOT in it's designated spot. Geesh. Don't let it escape its hole!! I couldn't count the number of bruises on my arms and the body contortions and TIME it took to get it back in that itty bitty tiny hole. I did it though. My vocabulary went beyond sailor-ish by the time I was done. I think it was nearly 2 am. I used every trick to get a grommet in (special grease on one side, angle it went in, prayer, ancient rituals). I was considering a sacrifice at one point, but then I realized I'd already sacrificed a few back muscles. It finally popped in - sigh of relief.

    Don't touch the grommet!!! :)
    Lol. I think it’s the same fridge. My photo is what you see if you remove 5 screws and take the panel on the left side off. It *looks* like you can just reach in from the front and access the area, no need to reach in thru the kitchen cabinet.

    In any case I will continue my visual inspection when it gets a little warmer. There are reports out there about loose wires, bad connections, etc. so I’ll check all that first. Sacrificing a chicken under the full moon will come later.
    John and Henrietta, Late 2016 T@B S Max in Western New York
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    VernaVerna Member Posts: 6,878
    @Photomom, be sure to check the fridge posts by @Nomad who had a couple of different issues with the thermocoupler and a circuit board, if you haven’t already checked his posts.
    Verna, Columbus, IN
    2021 T@B 320S  Boondock “The T@B”
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    PhotomomPhotomom Member Posts: 2,217
    Okay, finally had some time to take a look at the fridge. Checked all connections and everything was tight. Was able to determine that there is 12v into the relighter board but there is just no physical way to get any further with the fridge in place. Just not enough room. 

    I had my husband try to light the fridge while I lay on the floor and looked inside at the glass peephole on the burner box. I could hear ticking from the relighter board but never did see a spark or a flame through that peephole. Can anyone verify that you can see sparks/flame through that when the fridge is working properly on propane? As a reminder this is the 3163 3-way with the two vents in front.
    John and Henrietta, Late 2016 T@B S Max in Western New York
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    jkjennjkjenn Member Posts: 6,391
    Photomom said:
    Okay, finally had some time to take a look at the fridge. Checked all connections and everything was tight. Was able to determine that there is 12v into the relighter board but there is just no physical way to get any further with the fridge in place. Just not enough room. 

    I had my husband try to light the fridge while I lay on the floor and looked inside at the glass peephole on the burner box. I could hear ticking from the relighter board but never did see a spark or a flame through that peephole. Can anyone verify that you can see sparks/flame through that when the fridge is working properly on propane? As a reminder this is the 3163 3-way with the two vents in front.
    My ignition wire had corroded. The dealer did not detect the problem but nuCamp did.

    2021 T@b 320 Boondock "Mattie Ross" | 2021 T@b Nights: 239 | Total nights in a T@b 455 | 2022 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Overland | T@b owner since 2014

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    PhotomomPhotomom Member Posts: 2,217
    Tell me more. Was this warranty service thru NuCamp? Or out of warranty? Looking at the fridge today, we decided we’re going to have to get someone else to work on it, might be an advantage for the people who shoehorned it in there to do it. 
    John and Henrietta, Late 2016 T@B S Max in Western New York
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    jkjennjkjenn Member Posts: 6,391
    Photomom said:
    Tell me more. Was this warranty service thru NuCamp? Or out of warranty? Looking at the fridge today, we decided we’re going to have to get someone else to work on it, might be an advantage for the people who shoehorned it in there to do it. 
    It was out of warranty service. They seem to understand fridges better than dealers do, honestly. It might be worth the drive for you.

    2021 T@b 320 Boondock "Mattie Ross" | 2021 T@b Nights: 239 | Total nights in a T@b 455 | 2022 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Overland | T@b owner since 2014

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    PhotomomPhotomom Member Posts: 2,217
    Okay, DH was available today for more troubleshooting. I was able to get the sparker thing out of the burner by using a very long screwdriver. It actually looked pretty good but I wiped it with some alcohol and put it back. We got to the point in the procedure where we measure the voltage produced by the thermocouple. It fluctuated around 1 millivolt which I’m thinking indicates a bad/dirty thermocouple. I tugged on it a bit but it didn’t move at all and didn’t know how hard I should be pulling.

    So, I’m back to the original question - is it possible to replace the thermocouple without removing the fridge? If so, does it just pull out and how hard should you have to pull?

    When I removed the sparker thing I noticed a little rust on the screw that holds it in the burner assembly. There Looks like a bit of rust on the outside of the burner assembly too. I am theorizing that these fridges should be used regularly on propane to keep corrosion under control. In our case the last and only time we used it was August 2016 when camping without hookups in Vermont. Has anyone ever heard this?
    John and Henrietta, Late 2016 T@B S Max in Western New York
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    FuzzyYanniFuzzyYanni Member Posts: 110
    edited October 2022
    YES - I have sucessfully replaced the thermocoupler on our 2009 TADA FD (nearly identical to the T@B setup) WITHOUT fridge removal in 2016. You need nimble little fingers and an abnormally long screwdriver.


    "I know one thing, I know nothing."
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