Normal or abnormal battery drain?

Petroffski

First post... be gentle! Our new 2019 T@B 400 w/factory solar seems to be losing battery charge. The battery went from 83% to 75% overnight. The fridge, radio, AC, Alde, as well as all switches and lights, are off. The only things that seem to be on are all the idle lights, usb power, tv, Co2 monitor, etc. These numbers are from the iPhone app for the bluetooth solar controller, fyi.

Does this seem like a normal drain or should I be looking for something not so obvious?
Thanks-
Peter

DenisP

We have a 2018 T@b 400 with solar and recently started using the iPhone app.  IMHO an 8% drop overnight may not be an issue.  The app seems to be sensitive and fluctuate some.  I am still testing my system.

pthomas745

Welcome!    Sounds "sorta" normal to me.  If you used 8 percent of your 100 available amp hours that would be 8 amps (assuming you have the 2 6 volt battery setup?)   The "parasitic drain" of the TV, Co2, smoke detector, etc. can be up to 5 Amps a day. I'm not sure what else the 400 might have for a "drain." 

The other thing to remember is a battery must be in a "rested" state before checking the state of charge, which could also give you a "lower" reading when first checking it out in the morning.

dragonsdofly

@Petroffski, although this is not an introductory thread, I see it's your first post. So, welcome to the forum, the t@b family and congratulations on your trailer!  Many adventures await.  Fair weather, open roads and many happy journeys to you!

ScottG

Do you know what the actual voltage was before and after? I'm never particularly confident in percentages or fractions unless I know how they translate into volts.

To get a reading as close to accurate as possible, voltage should be measured with nothing running (at least to the extent possible).

Petroffski

Thanks for being so welcoming all!  
Solar is new to me so please excuse my noobyosityness. This raises a question in my little head... If I use the battery disconnect to disconnect the battery will the solar controller still connect with my app? I'm guessing no, even if the solar is making power. So... to read my battery I'll need my volt/ohm meter to measure it. I guess this is why people install wired remote battery meters rather than just an app. One other question... If I disconnect the battery with the disconnect will it not charge with shore power as well? I'm guessing no as well.

Thomas745- I'm not really sure what a "rested" state is. Unless it's disconnected, voltage is either going one way or the other it would seem!? Please explain...

Scott G - I think the voltage this morning was 12.6. I don't remember last night. I am going to start doing some serious testing however with the battery connected and disconnected. The solar is seriously compromised as "Sparky" is covered in a PahaQue cover. It does punch it up, even still, about 8-10% every day. If we could just get some decent sunlight here during cloudy monsoon season it might even make it to 100%.

ScottG

@Petroffski, I can't answer your question about the solar controller app, but I will say 12.6V indicates a fully charged (or nearly fully charged) battery. Sounds to me like everything is fine.

Solar is definitely a dish consumed in small quantities. Camp on, have fun, and learn as you go!

pthomas745

Here is everything you ever wanted to know about deep cycle batteries in one handy page. Lot of good info, and a great reference tool. 

https://www.solar-electric.com/learning-center/batteries-and-charging/deep-cycle-battery-faq.html#Battery Size Codes

From the Battery Voltages section.

"On the table below, you have to be careful that you are not just measuring the surface charge. To properly check the voltages, the battery should sit at rest for a few hours, or you should put a small load on it, such as a small automotive bulb, for a few minutes. The voltages below apply to ALL Lead-Acid batteries, except gelled. For gel cells, subtract .2 volts. Note that the voltages when actually charging will be quite different, so do not use these numbers for a battery that is under charge."

And I hope "noobyosityness" wins the award for Word Of the Year.

ScottG

pthomas745 makes an additional good point that's worth reiterating. Not only should you check your voltage with no loads on the battery, you should also check it with no charging input.

If your solar panels are connected (or your converter is on, or you are connected to a running tow vehicle) your battery voltage will reflect what you are getting from the charging source.

While having a load on the battery may result in an artificially low reading, having a charge source connected may result in an artificially high reading that does not necessarily reflect the actual resting state of the battery.

LSkrabut

From nüCamp for a 2018 400, the disconnect/cutoff switch is between the battery and converter.

I know on my 2018 400, the factory solar PWM wiring is directly between the battery and solar panels, so even with the T@B disconnect/cutoff switch is turned off, the battery is still getting a charge from the solar panel if the panel is indeed able to develop a charge.  

So I feel to get a true SOC or even to test a battery at rest is a bit of challenge if a factory solar panel is connected directly to the battery.

Now I figure if the PWM fuse is pulled, then the PWM will not be electrically connected, but where the 2018 400 is located, under the bed near the Alde, it is both a PITA to read and be able to pull its fuse and re-insert if one would do that. Note: Myself I rather not be pulling the PWM fuse for any reason unless one wanted to truly reset the PWM for any reason.

ScottG

@LSkrabut, something is peculiar with that diagram...

With this configuration, the battery would always be connected to the converter, via the junction box. This would render the battery disconnect effectively useless, as the duplicate circuit would still be drawing phantom power at all times.

(In the 320, there is no direct connection between the battery and the converter--everything hooks up through the junction box. The factory disconnect is installed between the battery and the junction box.)

The direct connection between the solar controller and the battery is consistent with my set-up, so I agree with your main point about disconnecting the panels when checking voltage. For me, that's as simple as unplugging from the Zamp port, but I can see where this is more challenging with the built-in system on the 400.

LSkrabut

@ScottG

I do see what you are referencing. The junction box battery + is indicated to the battery. And the converter to cutoff to Battery +. so a loop is formed.

Renee got this for me when I asked for the wiring diagram for my 2018 400.

I have validated the cutoff switch to the converter. I have not validated the junction box Battery + to where that lead(s?) goes to.

But as an educated guess, I bet the junction box Battery + only goes to the converter and jumper to the E-Brake. Why - the E-Brake gets its power from either the TV or converter and if the power is from the converter, we know the cutoff switch must be on.


Just took a short drive, nothing like a drive to think clearly  LOL

I bet nüCamp intentions on the junction block was to just label the connections, not to directly indicate where or how the wires got to points within the trailer.

ScottG

@LSkrabut, it's hard to be certain without tracing the actual wires, but your educated guess sounds reasonable given the location of the battery on the 400 vs. the 320. I'm thinking the labels on the diagram are just that: labels for the terminals as opposed to actual connections to something.

The breakaway brakes should have a direct connection to the battery at all times. I'm guessing that's the case with the 400. I suspect the connection between the battery and the junction box does not actually pass through the converter, but rather just through a solid terminal or bus bar where the two lines converge at the converter. It's a subtle but important distinction. As with other T@Bs with factory disconnects, it appears you would need to have the disconnect "on" for the battery to power the brakes in an emergency situation.

Regardless, back on topic, I take from what you said that your solar controller connects directly to the battery via an additional separate circuit that is not shown in the diagram.

(Thanks for humoring me. Not having a 400 myself makes it a little hard to help people with technical specifics. Having confirmation of how things are connected helps a lot!)

miva717

I have the same problem I noticed that the knob springs back even when a click sounded when going pass zero. Going ask my dealer to look into it .

ScottG

@miva717, to what knob are you referring?

miva717

The knob inside the refrigerator 

ScottG

Ok... I'm still not sure what exactly we are talking about, or how it relates to battery drain. Please elaborate.

JEB

ScottG said:

Ok... I'm still not sure what exactly we are talking about, or how it relates to battery drain. Please elaborate.

Sounds like the refrigerator is not fully disengaging from the power source.  If you turn the thermostat past zero and get to a click, it ought to stay in that position and deenergize the compressor.  If it's snapping back, then the compressor is still getting power.  My suspicion is that @miva717 is not turning the thermostat far enough past zero to fully cut power to the compressor.  It requires more force than you might think is necessary.

ScottG

Thanks, @JEB--I suspected something along that line. I think the fridge in the 400 is a totally different beast and I don't have a point of reference for it. 

miva717

Yes turning the knob all the way to the left and hearing the   click  doesn't disengage  the power and as result it slowly drains the battery . I better call in my warranty ends in June