Norcold DC only frig needs additional venting

seitzmike

I have a 2016 T@B CS-S.  We have had ongoing problems with the Norcold DC only frig.  It periodically cuts out especially when the outside temp is 90+, even when the rear is open and the battery has a strong reading.  The other night it cut out when the rear was closed and the outside temp was in the 70s.  The frig was in the shop, on battery, for a week without problem.  We are now focused on adding ventalation.
Has anyone had a similar problem and found a solution?  I have added two 6V golf cart batteries in series and 120W in solar panels and still have the problem.

Sharon_is_SAM

Does it matter if you are on AC or DC?  What is the temperature set at?  Is it constantly running?  Does it happen when fully stocked?

seitzmike

Sharon
Thanks for the reply.  When on shore power, we are only charging the batteries although we seem to have fewer problems if plugged in.  The temp is set at 38 and can vary from 32 to 42 when functioning.  It can happen when fully stocked or not.  It does not seem to run constantly.  After it cuts out, it repeatedly tries to kick in but can't.  That is all I can think of.

Sharon_is_SAM

Here are some things to consider.  Hope this helps.  

I wonder if you have voltage loss and you are not feeding 12 volts to the Frig.  

Did you have problems before the battery change and solar addition?  Seems like the shop tested the frig 12v wiring.  How about your supply to the frig?

Do you measure the voltage of your batteries and are sure your batteries are fully charged?

If you don’t have a factory installed cut-off switch, what gauge wire is coming off the battery to the junction box?

Measure the voltage going to the frig as close to the frig as possible.  

Have you contacted nuCamp for their input?  They may know of other owner’s experience.

Are you able to speak to a tech at Norcold personally?

Which model #?

So,  on AC, I assume you have a surge protector.  Can I assume that the frig is pretty empty when on AC?

I went through a few articles below and maybe you just need a fan to circulate inside the frig.  See this article here:
https://rvtravel.com/help-your-help-rv-refrigerator-operate-more-efficiently/


Have you changed the 12 volt fuse in the TaB breaker box?  

Here are more things to consider.

https://rvtravel.com/save-thousands-on-rv-refrigerator-replacement/

https://rvtravel.com/refrigerator-failure-844/

https://rvtravel.com/rv-mods-dont-let-appliance-control-boards-throw-you-into-fits/

https://rvtravel.com/how-to-keep-your-rv-fridge-running-efficiently/


https://rvtravel.com/got-an-uncool-rv-refrigerator-this-could-be-the-issue/

https://rvtravel.com/norcold-refrigerator-gets-warm-whats-the-problem/


https://rvtravel.com/absorption-refrigerator-cooling-unit-needs-replaced/

seitzmike

Thanks for all the suggestions.  I'll check out the links.
Frig is NRF 30
When I picked up the frig from the shop I had the trailer along.  They checked the V at the batteries and at the frig plug.  Problems have been intermittent since before solar, batteries, etc.  The original battery drained off frequently.  We thought the frig was the cause but it was the exhaust fan.
Not aware of a cut-off switch.
Contacted Nucamp a couple of years back and got suggestions that didn't help.  Just got an email back from a recent inquiry.  Sounded more like try this and that and leave me alone.  Really didn't answer my question as to how best to add aditional venting.  One comment was that it would cut out when temp reaches 212F (boiling).

Sharon_is_SAM

@Seitzmike, do you have a vent under the frig like the Tags with the Norcold chest type refrigerators?  We have an ARB instead of the frig and they put a vent under our aluminum slide.  We also considered putting vents with computer fans, but so far, not necessary.  We considered going out the side of the galley to reduce the heat buildup.  I think you can do that as well.  

I have not heard of anyone else with a CS having this problem with the frig.  I would call Norcold.

From the manual.  I wonder if it is permanently damaged?

"Cooling Unit Basics The cooling unit of your Norcold refrigerator/freezer makes heat. This heat must be removed quickly and efficiently in order for the refrigerator/freezer to have its maximum cooling performance. When the refrigerator/freezer is in an enclosed space, the temperature within the space will rise quickly and will reduce the cooling performance of the refrigerator/freezer. Continued operation at high temperatures can damage the refrigerator/freezer compressor and other components. A free flow of air (ventilation) through the refrigerator/freezer condenser coils and around the compressor is necessary for the refrigerator/freezer to operate correctly. While Norcold refrigerator/freezers are made to operate in more severe conditions than typical household refrigerator/freezers, you should not operate the refrigerator/freezer in high ambient temperatures. This will result in poor performance and possible food spoilage."

https://www.thetford.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/NRF30-Installation-and-Owners-Manual.pdf

seitzmike

Thanks
To back up a bit, the frig is DC only and may run fine for several days.  The problem is when it does cut out, it may not reset (manually turning it off and back on) for a while.  Some food has to be thrown out.
There is a hole in the floor of the frig cabinet that only "vents" to an enclosed area below, not to the outside as best I can tell.
I had read the warning about high temps but when you are camping and the temp goes up you have to find a way to work with it.
The "shop" just gave the frig, battery and wiring a clean bill of health.
I think Nucamp is well aware of the situation.  They redesigned the galley to accomodate an upright frig.
Any suggestion as to where/how to vent?  The support rep at Nucamp has not responed to my followup.  I don't want to cut any supports or add noise to the interior of the T@B.

Sharon_is_SAM

First, I would try to extend the lower vent and add a computer fan.

Sharon_is_SAM

Here is the picture of the vent under where our ARB is located.  It faces backward.  

seitzmike

Had notthought of going down.  We have some sort of blanket insulation on the underneath.  Will reevaluate the possibility.
Saw pictures of newer CS models and they have added two vents in front of the passenger side door.  I assume this is to provide the needed venting.  Will also explore such an arrangement in the rear.
It will be a couple of weeks before I can get to it.
Thanks for all the help.  Will let all know how it comes out.

Sharon_is_SAM

The TaB with the inside kitchen had the 2 vents, not the clamshells.  

seitzmike

I have an update.  My wife just got back from a week of camping with no problem.  They had shore power the entire week and said they had some hot weather.  She also believes we have never had a problem when plugged in.  The only difference I can find is that power will read 13 to 13.5 on shore power while 12.0 to 12.5 on battery.  Since the frig is DC only, it would not think this would be the cause of the problem.
Our problem began when we had a deep cycle 12 v and continued with the 2 6v golf cart batteries in series.  The batteries and lines all the way to the frig checked out a month ago.

Sharon_is_SAM

@seitzmike, when you are plugged into shorepower, your voltage via the 12v outlet will always read 13 + as that reflects the stepdown charge from the converter to the battery.  Since your wife had no problems during hot weather, I am beginning to think that it is not a "heat/ventilation" issue, but rather a battery voltage issue.  

Most folks do not let their batteries get below 12.4 v  and you are reporting seeing as low as 12 v.  Is that under load or in a resting state while isolated?  The Norcold has a cut-off voltage.  Check the manual as I think you can set it to cut-out at a certain voltage.  The Norcold draws 3-4 amps/hr while cooling plus you are using more amps to power the pump, lights, fan, etc.   It may well be that you are not able to keep your battery adequately charged with only 120 watts solar.

Are you pre-cooling the frig or turning it on just when you start to tow?  What is your voltage reading when you arrive to camp?  How many amps are you using?  What is your voltage reading in the morning before the sun comes up?  

seitzmike

All are under load.  The last time we had a problem the reading was 12.5.  Expect it to cut out below 11.8.
We are precooling the frig and anything that goes in.
When we arrive at , the reading is usually 12.5 to 12.8.  That is after being on the road, plugged into the vehicle, for 2 to 6 hours.
There are times we are good for a couple of days before a problem
The last time, when I had it, it went out about 4 pm of my first day with strong solar output - I reset.  The next day it went out about the same time but I was able to reset (reading 12.5).  It then went out about 8 pm and after a while of it trying to kick back in, I shut it off.
The shop ran it for a week, empty, on battery only.  They did recharge the battery once late in the week.
Don't have an answer about the # of amps used.  The frig was all that was on.
The morning readings, without solar, are generally in the 12.3 to 12.5 ranges.  There are many times the frig runs fine in this range.

Sharon_is_SAM

Well, are you having any other 12 v issues?  Blowing fuses?  Maybe there is a loose wire that moves with movement in the trailer.  If it is venting related, it would happen on AC, too.

Sharon_is_SAM

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/7183/cs-s-two-way-norcold

Check this thread.  Someone recently had thermostat problems and it was fixable.

seitzmike

No other 12v issues.  Don't understand the relationship to the AC.  They are no where near each other and the AC operates on 110.  We have only used the AC a couple of times.
I found the thread you referenced the other day.  Their frig is AC/DC and completely quit while ours is DC only and intermittent so we ruled out fuses.  Also, our thermometer appears in good working order.
It can cut out after standing for hours with no one touching the T@B
You have got me thinking and I am going to defer cutting holes for the time being.
Not looking to buy another frig as I have already sunk enough into this:  solar, generator, 2 golf cart batteries and custom made front box to hold them.
NEW - The blinking lights we get on the panel point to fan issues but that checked oK.  T@B checks out as level.
Thanks for continuing to work with me on this.

Sharon_is_SAM

AC meaning alternating current.  TaBs with the inside kitchen have 3 way frigs and TaB CS-S have 2 ways - that is DC and AC, as it operates with stepped down AC current via 12 volt wiring.  Someone else had a dead frig from a relay switch.

@seitzmike, lights on which panel - if you mean the fuse indicator lights, change the fuse for the fan.  

I am going to ask @Michigan_Mike for some input here.  

mgreen2

the Norcold NFR 30 is the same model that comes with the T@G. One common problem is the cut off switch not being set correctly. It should be on 3. If it is cuttimg off with a low battery it is the battery not the Norcold. Position 3 will keep it running longer with a low battery. 

Michigan_Mike

Sounds like you’ve covered all the bases via your suggestions Sharon.   If the refrigerator is cutting out it’s most likely heat related, a sensor possibly, bad circuit board, or the 12V feed wire isn’t large enough to handle the load (what is the 12V DC wire size?), causing the unit to heat up and shut down.  Heat creates havoc with electrical equipment and if it were me, I would implement some of the suggestions from the earlier 3-way Norcold (install some additional cooling fans) thread or consider buying an ARB frig as a back up.  And if you are near the factory let Austin Jones take a look at it as they will figure it out.  Have you spoken to him in their repair facility?
I would contact Thetford too and query them since they built the unit.  

Good luck!  

Sharon_is_SAM

@Michigan_Mike, if it is heat and ventilation related,  it just does not make sense that it happens on DC but not on ac.

Michigan_Mike

Sharon_is_SAM said:

@Michigan_Mike, if it is heat and ventilation related,  it just does not make sense that it happens on DC but not on ac.

I don’t know Sharon, just a suggestion.  If it were me and I had spent considerable time troubleshooting a problem like this and without sufficient success, I’d be contacting the manufacturer of the unit and letting them take a look at it.  Unless you have the diagnostic test instruments to actually do the hands on testing/reads required it’s a crap shoot over forum suggestions.  

Marceline

seitzmike said:

All are under load.  The last time we had a problem the reading was 12.5.  Expect it to cut out below 11.8.
We are precooling the frig and anything that goes in.
When we arrive at , the reading is usually 12.5 to 12.8.  That is after being on the road, plugged into the vehicle, for 2 to 6 hours.
There are times we are good for a couple of days before a problem
The last time, when I had it, it went out about 4 pm of my first day with strong solar output - I reset.  The next day it went out about the same time but I was able to reset (reading 12.5).  It then went out about 8 pm and after a while of it trying to kick back in, I shut it off.
The shop ran it for a week, empty, on battery only.  They did recharge the battery once late in the week.
Don't have an answer about the # of amps used.  The frig was all that was on.
The morning readings, without solar, are generally in the 12.3 to 12.5 ranges.  There are many times the frig runs fine in this range.

What tool are you using to read your battery? 

Sharon_is_SAM

Mike, agreed!

seitzmike

No other issues.  Don't understand the relationship to the AC.  They are no where near each other and the AC operates on 110.  We have only used the AC a couple of times.
I found the thread the other day.  Their frig completely quit while ours is intermittent so we rule out fuses.
Not looking to buy another frig as I have already sunk enough into this:  solar, generator, 2 golf cart batteries and custom made fron

seitzmike

1) Norcold 30 is a DC only frig. When plugged in to shorepower, we are simply recharging the batteries; 2) We always have the setting on 3 3) The battery, wiring etc was tested by a Domestic repair shop, no Norcold in the area. 4) Wiring was installed at the factory 5) Have been unable to find a replacement frig that will fit in the space (H 15.6" W 22" D 15.7") Lid opens from the front 6) There is a panel on the left side of the frig where you select the setting and receive error messages via flashing lights. From the manual: If the power light is on and the error light flashes 3 times: Fan speed is wrong. Ambient temperature is more than the normal operating temperature, or the refrigerator/freezer air-intake vent is obstructed. Check as best we could and did not find a problem.

Marceline

seitzmike said:

All are under load.  The last time we had a problem the reading was 12.5.  Expect it to cut out below 11.8.
We are precooling the frig and anything that goes in.
When we arrive at , the reading is usually 12.5 to 12.8.  That is after being on the road, plugged into the vehicle, for 2 to 6 hours.
There are times we are good for a couple of days before a problem
The last time, when I had it, it went out about 4 pm of my first day with strong solar output - I reset.  The next day it went out about the same time but I was able to reset (reading 12.5).  It then went out about 8 pm and after a while of it trying to kick back in, I shut it off.
The shop ran it for a week, empty, on battery only.  They did recharge the battery once late in the week.
Don't have an answer about the # of amps used.  The frig was all that was on.
The morning readings, without solar, are generally in the 12.3 to 12.5 ranges.  There are many times the frig runs fine in this range.

Are you sure that you're getting accurate battery voltage readings? What are you using as a meter? 
If you are looking at your battery voltage while charging (shore power, solar, generator) or while there is a load on the battery (cooler is on) you aren't getting accurate battery voltage readings. 

Does the cooler ever have problems while you're running the generator?

Did you review the @mgreen2 post above specifically about the Norcold NFR 30? This looks like something you might want to check.

seitzmike

The readings I generally reference are from the built in guage by the shower door.  It is always read under load.
Have only used the generator once or twice and before upgrading the battery.
My wife just got back and was on battery only for a little over 24 hrs. No problem.  Said the reading was 12.3 when she arrived and latter went to 12.4
I did review @mgreen2.  We are always on 3 as recommended.

Marceline

It seems odd that the battery was only 12.3v when she arrived at campsite. It’s as if the tow vehicle isn’t charging the T@B battery.

Sharon_is_SAM

seitzmike said:

No other issues.  Don't understand the relationship to the AC.  They are no where near each other and the AC operates on 110.  We have only used the AC a couple of times.
I found the thread the other day.  Their frig completely quit while ours is intermittent so we rule out fuses.
Not looking to buy another frig as I have already sunk enough into this:  solar, generator, 2 golf cart batteries and custom made fron

AC as in alternating current/shorepower, not A/C as in air conditioning 😊

I would change the fuse for the frig anyway, although, they are typically all or nothing.  I would personally check the wiring coming off the converter and make sure it is solid.  

You have the chest style frig/freezer?

Sharon_is_SAM

Check out out this thread from TaGs who use the chest style Norcold.

https://littleguy.vanillacommunities.com/discussion/5579/norcold-nrf30-error-light