Best Weight Distribution Hitch for T@B 400?

JEB

klenger said:

Has anyone tried the Blue Ox Sway Pro WD hitch?  I used one with a 34' ~10,000# travel trailer and was very impressed with it, but think it might be overkill for something as small as a 400.  They have a wide selection of WD bars, so that part is not a problem, but the basic hitch is a bit of a beast.

It does look like a beast.  Assuming they come in sizes small enough—you are limited to spring bars no larger than 750 pounds for the 400–my only other concern would be its flexibility with respect to placement of the frame clamps.  I don’t know much about Blue Ox—other than its generally good reputation—but I tend to avoid equipment that requires me to make modifications to the frame or other equipment bolted to it if I can. 

SeattleAlan

I Emailed Nucamp about WDH. Here’s what they said:

”We don't offer too much advice on WDH as they are aftermarket, but they will not affect the Trailer in any negative way. All we ask is that you use a Bolt On System instead of a Clamp Style system as a Clamp Style system can damage the C-Channel frame overtime.”

JEB

SeattleAlan said:

I Emailed Nucamp about WDH. Here’s what they said:

”We don't offer too much advice on WDH as they are aftermarket, but they will not affect the Trailer in any negative way. All we ask is that you use a Bolt On System instead of a Clamp Style system as a Clamp Style system can damage the C-Channel frame overtime.”

There has been quite a bit of debate about that.  NuCamp and Fastway seem to have different views on the capabilities of the BAL/Norco frame.  Fastway is well aware of these types of frames and even makes a specialty link plate to fit it.  And NuCamp is not the only company that uses this frame.  I know Lance does as well.  Fastway maintains it is perfectly safe to use their clamping system on a C-Channel.  Fastway, and its sister company Equalizer, have been at this game for awhile.  Since I had to pick whom to believe when I was considering a WDH, I decided go with Fastway’s view over NuCamp’s on this issue, particularly since NuCamp has turned out to be quite wrong on other issues and WDHs are Fastway’s primary line of business.

SeattleAlan

@JEB

I'm feeling the same way - it seems the WDH manufacturer folks are the experts on the frames.  They have a handful of engineers that are crunching the numbers on these things.  My guess is that NuCamp is not doing the same.

I sent NuCamp a follow up to understand what they meant by "clamp on" vs "bolt on".  I sent the two photos of what I think is a "clamp on" (1st photo) and the "bolt on" (2nd photo).  They said the "bolt on" example I sent them is what they prefer to be used on the 400 frame.  I didn't tell them explicitly the 2nd photo happens to be the e2.

I was confused if they meant thru bolted and drilled through the frame....  they said they don't prefer a thru bolt WDH frame bracket installation.

SeattleAlan

I also reached out to Equalizer on the e2.  This is what they said about getting a hold of the right plates on the Tab 400 bal norco frame:

"You can order those brackets directly from our Equalizer website if you would like. that way you can already have them when you pick up your trailer.

https://www.equalizerhitch.com/store/link-plates/inside-link-plate-for-4-3-8-inch-trailer-frames-bal-norco
https://www.equalizerhitch.com/store/link-plates/outside-link-plate-for-4-3-8-frame-bal-norco

you will need 2 inside and 2 outside link plates for the bal norco frame. you will also need 4 L bracket mounting bolts. 

https://www.equalizerhitch.com/store/bolts-sockets/mounting-bolt-for-l-bracket-6-000-14-000-lb-models

all the other hardware and the L brackets from the E2 hitch will work with those plates.

Thanks!"

JEB

Interesting.  Seems like NuCamp may have revised what it means by “bolt-on.”  When this issue came up several months ago, they were suggesting a bolt-on bracket that actually entailed bolting through the frame.  I think the example was a Reese product, if I remember correctly.  If the Fastway bracket also qualifies as “bolt-on,” then I guess there’s no dispute. 

SeattleAlan

Here’s some of my NuCamp email thread: (first picture I sent was the e2 bolt on)

That first system pictured would be best. There are owners that use the thru bolt system but we don't prefer them. 



Best Regards,

-Creed Hostetler
Technical Support Specialist
nuCamp RV
—————-

Creed,

Thanks for your help.  One follow up on the bolt on vs clamp style - can you 
confirm what you mean by bolt on?  You don't mean drilled and thru bolted 
onto the frame, right?  I've attached images of what I think is a bolt on 
style (which is not thru bolted) vs a clamp style WDH frame brackets.  I 
think we are on the same page, right?

Again - thank you for your help!

JEB

Ah.  Good!  I’ve used the Fastway e2 for years. I think you’ll like it.  I still recommend the round bar over the trunnion to avoid having to relocate the tub.  But here is an installation tip. Locate the link plates as close as you can to the front of the tub without the link bolts touching it and then snug down the bolts with an open end wrench.  Once snug, remove the tub temporarily so you can get a torque wrench on the bolts.  Then put the tub back on once you finish torquing the link nuts to approximately 65 ft-lbs.  If you do it this way, you can get the link plates about 23” from the coupler, which is plenty of distance for tongue weights less than 800 pounds. 

SeattleAlan

@JEB
Thanks you very much for all your insights!  

The e2 looks like a great choice.  I had a larger trailer years ago and had an old clunky WDH w/ clamp on brackets and chains.  You hand to use a pipe to load the chains up - it was a pain.  This looks like an easier set up and better performing (with built in sway control) from that old technology.  

Also - I want a WDH.  Even thought some might say its overkill.  We've got a F150 which should more than handle a Tab 400.  Probably fine w/o WDH.  But, an extra safety factor for my family seems well worth the $400.  Someone wrote - the time you realize you wished you had sway or an equalizer hitch will likely be too late after you've lost control of your rig.  On my old trailer - even though I had a pretty robust set up - we still ran into instances that made your arm hair stand straight up - semi's passing at 100 mph in a windstorm, etc.  I can't image what would have happened if we didn't have the set up we had.

Boomzoom

I am transferring a Fastway E2 WDH from an Rpod to a T@b 400 Boondocker Lite camper.  Will the diamond plated platform (LP tanks etc) interfere with the installation, looks like it might be close to where the tongue supports would be mounted.  What are your thoughts??

falcon1970

With the e2 round bar system you can mount the brackets close enough so that you clear the front of the tub.  Or you could "shim" the tub and raise it enough to clear the top of the brackets. I used a piece of HDPE to raise the tub--before I decided that a WDH was not needed with my setup.  If you raise the tub you will also need longer bolts.  I used 1/4-20 bolts and nylon lock nuts instead of the large sheet metal screws from the factory.  Don't use wood for the shim--it won't last no matter how well you think you have it sealed.

Boomzoom

Thanks for your input.  I should have said my setup uses the square (trunnion) bars instead of the round setup.  They are still very similar.   Glad to hear that you felt you didn't need them after all.

falcon1970

The round bar system allows you to mount the frame brackets much closer to the hitch than the square bar system.  I bought the Fastway system because I thought I needed sway control.  Since I am towing with a Ford F-250, I didn't really need weight distribution.  As a matter of fact I get almost no squat when the trailer is on the hitch--and my tongue weight is right at 500 pounds.  In the event, I found I didn't have any sway problems after all.  Even with a crosswind and semi's whizzing past me at the speed of heat the trailer didn't wobble a bit!

grsiepka

Hi all, thanks for the helpful info in this thread. We just took ownership of a 2020 T@B400 that we will be pulling with our 2018 Toyota 4Runner. There's enough sag on the back end of the 4Runner that I'd like to go with the Fastway E2 Roundbar style as others have mentioned here.  Dealer says its overkill but it's more of a piece of mind thing for me. 

My question is does anyone have the part numbers for the link plates that are required to fit the T@B400 frame?  The Fastway parts website shows inside and outside link plates but doesn't really say what they are. Or are they kind of an unlisted item and I need to contact Fastway directly?  I see the parts @SeattleAlan posted but those seem like they are for the Equalizer hitch and not the Fastway.    

Or am I missing the point entirely and can the Equalizer plates listed above be used with the Fastway E2 hitch?

Just would like to get everything ordered at once and not wait for weeks exchanging parts.

JEB

grsiepka said:

Hi all, thanks for the helpful info in this thread. We just took ownership of a 2020 T@B400 that we will be pulling with our 2018 Toyota 4Runner. There's enough sag on the back end of the 4Runner that I'd like to go with the Fastway E2 Roundbar style as others have mentioned here.  Dealer says its overkill but it's more of a piece of mind thing for me. 

My question is does anyone have the part numbers for the link plates that are required to fit the T@B400 frame?  The Fastway parts website shows inside and outside link plates but doesn't really say what they are. Or are they kind of an unlisted item and I need to contact Fastway directly?  I see the parts @SeattleAlan posted but those seem like they are for the Equalizer hitch and not the Fastway.    

Or am I missing the point entirely and can the Equalizer plates listed above be used with the Fastway E2 hitch?

Just would like to get everything ordered at once and not wait for weeks exchanging parts.

The links to Equalizer are correct.  Fastway and Equalizer are sister companies.  In addition to the four link plates, remember to order four L bracket bolts as well, also on the Equalizer website.  Unlike the outside link plates that come with the WDH kit, the 4 3/8” link plates do not come with L bracket bolts.  https://www.equalizerhitch.com/store/bolts-sockets/mounting-bolt-for-l-bracket-6-000-14-000-lb-models

grsiepka

Gotcha. thanks for confirming

SeattleAlan

Has anyone used an e2 equalized hitch on the new Boondock Lite Tab 400 model?  Looks like it could be more challenging to modify the propane box and the shelves near the tongue to make one fit.

grsiepka

@SeattleAlan
That is what I plan to do this weekend.   Bought the Fastway e2 hitch 94-00-0600  which is the Roundbar option 6000lb. Ordered the special BalNorco 4 3/8" plates and bolts from Equalizer based on your links above. Also bought a 2" ball as it the E2 6000lb model does not come with one pre-installed.

The nut on the ball is 1 7/8" and needs a special  thinwall socket to tighten. Both of my local hitch shops (in PHX area) didn't have it. E-trailer wants $75 for the one Fastway recommends.  I bought this instead.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FPARIK
and this since I don't have a 3/4" drive socket.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000NPPCKU

In the reviews of that socket people have reported using them on the Fastway E2 hitch. 
They want 450 ft/lbs on that nut, I should be able to get that with a big breaker-bar.

Regarding the length to the tub/platform. Measuring from the center of the coupler to the edge of the platform gets me right at 26" 



The instructions for the Roundbar setup say that want the brackets at 24-27" but also note you can go down to as low as 20" as long as your tongue weight is under 800lbs.  

https://www.fastwaytrailer.com/pdf/FW_e2_Round-Bar-Owners-Manual.pdf
Page 11 talks about the Sway Bracket setup.

I'm thinking I should be right at 23-24" if I mount the brackets right in front of the platform. Notice too that even though the tub sticks out further than the platform, there should be room to slide the brackets in under the tub.


Fastway has a pretty good video on YouTube that explains the install in detail. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=aNmcYI2Pp9w

I'll report back on my progress assuming my socket gets delivered in time.

LSkrabut

Might want to check the ball size in reference to the socket needed. 2" ball in my case requires a 1 1/2" socket and not a 1 7/8" for a 2 5/16" ball. 

When I went thru eTrailer they told me the same thing, I needed the huge socket and I bought it. Once I got my order in, I found I did not need the huge socket and they accepted the return and paid for the shipping, a mistake on their part!

grsiepka

ahsonovabich..... what a pain.. Now I get it.

So the 2" ball I bought from Equalizer. It has a 1 1/2 shank, which comes with a 1 7/8 nut.  
https://www.equalizerhitch.com/store/hitch-balls/equal-i-zer-hitch-ball-2-rated-at-8-000-lbs

That's only reason you'd need to buy that 1 7/8 socket is if you buy that hitch ball.  Thats.. Dumb.  

Any other 2" ball that i'm looking at on Amazon looks to have a 1" shank. The E2 comes with a 1" bushing that looks like it would fill up that gap in the receiver.  A 1 1/2" nut that I'd imagine any hitch place is going to be able to tighten down.  Even harbor freight has a wrench for 8 dollars to tighten that.

So anyone following, don't buy the Equalizer hitch ball. Buy a Curt or Reese from Amazon with a 1 1/2 inch nut and use the bushing Fastway includes in the kit.


 

falcon1970

I bought the same unit as did you--before I realized I didn't need a WDH or sway control at all.
I also needed a 1 7/8" (NOT a 1 1/2") thin wall socket which was no where to be found.  However, I modified a regular socket to fit.  The problem is the "ears" on the very bottom of the hitch.  A regular socket fits just fine on the ball nut but it is too tall to pass the "ears".  I cut the sidewall of a regular socket down to 1 1/4" (I don't remember what it originally was but I think I cut about a 1/4" off).  Now it will pass above the "ears" but still slide onto the nut.

grsiepka

@falcon1970 Yep exactly what i read too of people cutting the socket.  I think the one I ordered is going to fit, it does look shorter than the one you've got.

SeattleAlan

@grsiepka
 I'd be curious to see how your install goes!  Can you share pictures and thoughts once you get the WDH installed?   Many thanks!  We are getting ready to purchase the same T@B 400 and want to install the same WDH.

Cheers - 

grsiepka

Got it done. Couple things to note. Doing it in full Arizona 108 degree sun kinda sucks..

I had to punt on using the Equalizer brand 2" hitch ball with the giant 1 7/8th's nut. The socket I ordered didn't fit and I was done trying to make it work.

I ended up swapping the ball from my normal hitch ballmount (2" with 1 1/2" nut, 1" shank, rated at 6000lb) Used the provided bushing to fill up the space in the WDH ballmount. Picked up the 8 dollar hitch ball wrench from Harbor Freight to tighten it down. Based on my math I should have over 400ft/lb on the hitch ball by standing on the end of the 18" wrench.

The rest of the install went well but like anything you need proper tools and lots of measuring.

Here's is a pic of the link plates right in front of the tub/platform.

Link plate with the L bracket, even at the top setting if you were to use that, has clearance from the Tub.

Note in this pic too, you need to be able to torque that upper nut to 65ft/lbs. The bolt doesn't touch the actual platform but there's no getting a socket on there, so had to use my torque wrench with a clawfoot socket adapter to get it torqued to spec. Of course I didn't have those so back to the hardware store.



Measurement from the center of the coupler to the link plate bolts for the L bracket. Just over 24" which is in spec. The spring arms friction points still make contact with the friction points on the L brackets.



This pic below shows where I ended up putting the L brackets at. Basically the bottom setting. (top holes) The 2 bolts that hold the L bracket onto the link plate need 75ft/lbs



Here's where I ended up with on the ballmount and receiver. Bolts not tightened in this pic and it looks like its sloping up, its not, there's a slight down pitch to the ballmount. Those bolts need 250ft/lbs which means you need a big momma torque wrench. Yay for more tools to buy.




This is on a 2018 4Runner. I had a full tank of gas, 80lbs of dumbbells in the back of the truck, a 30lb in the tub and another 30lb inside the trailer. Full freshwater tank. All to simulate being loaded for a trip. After measuring and measuring, removing the WDH, measuring again, checking trailer angle and measuring again. I ended up with 3 spacer washers in the ballmount/shank. 4 made it over distributed (pushing down too much on the front of the vehicle). 3 made the trailer almost perfectly level, and left with only 1/16th of an inch rise in the front of the vehicle. Without the WDH i was at 7/16th rise. I didn't measure the squat in the back to be honest (the instructions only worry about the front) but it is much less pronounced with the WDH.  

To engage the spring arms, I lower the trailer onto the ball, engage the coupler lock and the pin, then crank up on the jack to raise the trailer and back end of the vehicle, this lets you put the spring arms in place without using the helper tool. Then raise up the jack to lower the trailer back down like normal. 

Took for a 30 min drive around town and the highway and I can feel the difference, its still a relatively heavy trailer so you know its there, but feels flatter, less rear pull when accelerating. Like many say its probably overkill, but worth it for me. Will be doing a lot of trips to the high country in Arizona and roads going up there can be sketchy at times.

Hope this helps! 

SeattleAlan

@grsiepka
Awesome photos and post!  Thank you!!

JEB

grsiepka said:

 

Note in this pic too, you need to be able to torque that upper nut to 65ft/lbs. The bolt doesn't touch the actual platform but there's no getting a socket on there, so had to use my torque wrench with a clawfoot socket adapter to get it torqued to spec. Of course I didn't have those so back to the hardware store.

You can get to that top bolt on the link plate with normal tools if you remove the tub first, torque down the nut, and then reinstall the tub.  Tub is held on with only four self-tapping screws. 

Kokopellie

Interesting Video on Air Bags or WDH
https://youtu.be/XBZu39pQ8Gg

gspdx

Everyone who is thinking about a WDH should watch the above video.  Load leveling does not perform the same function as a WDH.  If you think you need or would like the increased safety don't expect load leveling on the TV to get the same performance.

I have said this before.  It's like a seat belt:  you might never actually need it, but when you do if you aren't ready it's too late.

Kokopellie

My choice.
https://www.amazon.com/Fastway-2-point-sway-control-hitch/dp/B0071L3H2E/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=fastway+hitch+6k&qid=1570714747&sr=8-1

gspdx

I use the Andersen.