Alde freight train FIX! $15 and 10 min install

Tabster

The euro high altitude fix is expensive and hard to get. Nu camp's fix is cheaper but not an easy install. Both do the same thing: reduce the orifice in the propane line down to 2mm. I made a reducer from easily found parts on Amazon. $15 plus shipping.  Get a 3/8 female flare to 1/4 male pipe fit  and then a 1/4 female pipe to 3/8 male flare fitting. Insert a small washer in between the 1/4 inch parts and screw them together. 
I used a small washer I already had. The center hole was too big so I super glued a small nut with a 5/64 (2mm) center to it. Note the nut is on the side that goes to the propane hose so if it falls off it won't go into the alde.
Follow all the safety rules--disconnect gas, etc as explained in the alde thread
Disconnect gas line from Alde. Attach reducer to alde. Attach hose to reducer. Turn on gas, check for leaks, turn on heater. Got heat?  Your good to go

mreric

do you have any photos or product links for this ?

Tabster

Here's a pic of the parts

MuttonChops

@Tabster

Like your approach.  Please clarify the connection "To Alde" as the Alde manual says the LP Gas Fitting is an 8mm not a 3/8.

Tabster

I believe the 8mm is the inside diameter of the hose. The 3/8 flare is the fitting size

MuttonChops

Tabster said:

I believe the 8mm is the inside diameter of the hose. The 3/8 flare is the fitting size

Thanks.  I had assumed the Adle was metric, nice to know it has 3/8 NPT.

db_cooper

I've wondered about the feasibility of doing something like this. We've had a bit of rumble at times at altitude at ski areas.   But we also camp at sea level a fair bit.  Would it be best too just use this at altitude  or do you think it will work at sea level ok as well?

klenger

It appears that this fix doesn't really change the orifice, but rather adds an inline restriction, which may have the same effect.  Does the Alde solution work the same way, or do they actually re-jet the burner orifice?

Another option for high altitude operation, which should also benefit the refrigerator would be to carry an LP pressure gauge and adjust the LP regulator for a lower pressure at high altitude.  Installing an LP quick disconnect or something similar would facilitate easy connection to the gauge.  

I had one of these but sold it on ebay when I sold my last RV, thinking that I was out of RVing for good.  Silly me.  

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B0016H12KS/

MuttonChops

klenger said:

It appears that this fix doesn't really change the orifice, but rather adds an inline restriction, which may have the same effect.  Does the Alde solution work the same way, or do they actually re-jet the burner orifice?

Alde 3010 model solution works the same way.  There is a tread that shows/explains how it works.

Alde 3020 model uses a different approach, instead of reducing the gas flow a 3020 (High Altitude Mode, selected on control panel) increases the combustion fan speed (air flow).

ChanW

Nice alternative.

The washer (or your nut) doesn't keep the ¼" NPT connection from tightening up, and it'll tighten up enough so the washer isn't loose in there? Or will it need to be glued in?

Tabster

I actually used a bit of superglue to hold it in place

db_cooper

Have you had a chance to test this at altitude and sea level?  

ChanW

Here are those fittings, "less expensive than Amazon":

edit: these fittings at McMaster aren't right...
https://www.mcmaster.com/6432T114
https://www.mcmaster.com/50635K438
($10.39 plus shipping, where Amazon was $25.66 with shipping)

McMaster Carr has pretty reasonable shipping, from my experience.

ChanW

@Tabster, can you give us the links for the Amazon parts you found for this? 

For the female flare/male NPT, the only thing that comes up for me is an Inverted Flare fitting, designed to go on the end of tubing.

Thanks!

db_cooper

@ChanW,
I think this is it, I'll know for sure tomorrow...


Lx.Cb6RGEGASCO 17-4629 3/8-Inch Flare by 1/4-Inch Female Pipe Thread Brass Adapter https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008E5CMMM/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_31R5

ChanW

@db_cooper, that one seems to be readily available, but the other one, with the female flare fitting and the male NPT pipe fitting is harder to find... 

db_cooper

That was the easier one for me to find. 😁

FasParts 3/8" Female NPT FPT FIP to 1/4" Male MPT MIP Brass Pipe Adaptor Fitting Fuel / Air / Water / Boat / Gas / Oil WOG 250*F 1000 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B013RXD39Q/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_fwD.Cb493M3DQ

The female side does flare, and the male side is flat.

ChanW

The female NPT is the same thread as female flare? I would not have expected that. I'll have to dig around in my fittings box to check this out.

The NPT thread depends on a tapered thread male and female to tighten and seal, and the flare fitting depends on a male cone shaped end to mate with a similar cone shaped female... What am I missing?

db_cooper

@ChanW -  You're correct, that part didn't fit.  I have the correct part for the left side of the equation.  I think this part is the missing link.

It is 1/4 FPT (female pipe thread) which should be the same as Female NPT.  I'm going to check my local fireplace/woodstove/BBQ joint to see if they have it, and take the other fitting to confirm fit.  Looks like it might be more common in grill applications.

https://www.thebbqdepot.com/3-8-in-flare-fitting-x-1-4-in-fpt/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=TheBBQDepot&utm_term=14989&_vsrefdom=googleads&gclid=CI-C-8uu4OICFZTCZAodB74O2Q

ChanW

@db_cooper, I love that you're hunting this down, thank you!

I think what you're looking for is a ⅜ female flare (non- "inverted") to ¼ male MNPT.

And a ¼ female FNPT to ⅜ male flare.

To complicate things, from what I can tell, there are two types of NPT threads, straight and tapered. Also there are two types of flare, 45° and 37°. I believe the 45° is more common, but I I think it depends on the industry it's intended for.

I hunted for a while, ordered the wrong parts, and then thought I might get the parts source from @Tabster, to save some digging... But @Tabster must be out in the mountains, testing his new high altitude mod!

I did find what I thought would be the most difficult part, the tiny washer, in my electronics hardware bag.

So please, keep  us updated on what you find!

ChanW

Okay, I think I may have found them on good old Amazon (and darn, it's only a little bit more expensive than the McMaster Carr was) ...


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001HOSYOC

and


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008E5CUEM

PLEASE, anyone venturing to do this mod themselves, only attempt it if you are confident in your ability and knowledge of working with gas lines. Use the right sealant, and properly test for leaks. If you don't know what I'm referring to, get a professional to do this job for you. Leaking propane under your bed is a recipe for disaster, and a potential for death. You are responsible for your own self!

Tabster

Yeah. Those are the parts. 

db_cooper

Thanks @ChanW, 

I spent my lunch hour looking for the gas side fitting with no luck, wish I'd seen your post first.  I think my Alde side fitting will work, but if not I've got the other one in my cart.

sdenhof

So the loud train like noise i hear when on propane is the result of my high alltitude? It is really a problem and I usually turne it off.

ChanW

@sdenhof, yes, the Alde seems to be jetted for lower altitude. Do a search on the forum for "freight train". It's been discussed at length.

(But I thought the 400 came from the factory with the problem corrected?)

Sharon_is_SAM

@sdenhof, your Alde 3020 has a high altitude mode.  This is from the Alde manual.

16. High altitude mode

The function only needs to be used if the- hydronic heating system will be powered by LP Gas at altitudes above approx. 3,000 ft.

If the LP Gas burner runs unevenly at these altitudes, turn off the furnace (see section 1, “Starting the hydronic heating system” on page 16) and then start the hydronic heating system in high altitude mode.

When heating with LP Gas at high altitudes, use propane to help obtain stable combustion.

sdenhof

Thanks Sharon I have the Alde 3010 and I don't see a high altitude mode

Sharon_is_SAM

Oh, sorry.  I thought all the 400s had the 3020!

Verna

The T@B 400’s first came out with the 3020 Alde with the high altitude mode in the 2019 models. 

@sdenhof, what year is your 400?

sdenhof

2018

Verna

@sdenhof, at the time of your manufacture, Alde had not received the federal permission to allow the introduction of the 3020 Alde model. The only way to. have the high altitude fix is to install the “fix” from nüCamp. .