Question for T@B Visor owners

DesertDweller

When I bought my T@B 320 S BL, the dealer included the PahaQue side tent.  I like the tent, but I find that it is a bit much to set up for one night trips, which is what I am limited to at the present time.  I also tend to do a lot of winter camping in the AZ desert where there is very little shade.  And, even in the winter, shade from the sun is necessary.  I have been experimenting with a DIY awning with a tarp, but it, too, is a bit cumbersome for overnight trips.  I am considering buying a T@B visor, but was concerned that it would not give any enough shade when the sun was not directly overhead due to the high angle of the visor.  So, my question is whether the leading edge of the visor (non-rail edge) is stiff enough to support hanging some lightweight garden shade fabric one can buy at Lowe's or Home Depot.  Any thoughts?

pthomas745

I do.  Shade sail material works ok for me.  Spring clamps right to the visor.  I do have a painter's pole to support the visor, and use light duty cargo straps to stake it out.  The visor will tend to flop around in the wind.  I've even thought about one of those large camouflage net things and making a whole shaded enclosed area....don't know how heavy they are , though.  Pictured at Esterbrook Wy, for the eclipse a few years ago.  I'm not much of a "glamper"!

Not much wind, so no painter's pole in use, but you can see the straps tying down the visor.  One of them is extended to support the shade sail.

Verna

My personal opinion is no, the fiberglass poles will not support the shade fabric. I’ve had three of the fiberglass section break in sudden Arizona winds, both times at the curves of the visor. The fiberglass poles will not support much twisting and moving. 

I have purchased some aluminum poles from Amazon, in sections similar to the Paha Que fiberglass poles. I just haven’t had the time to tinker with the length to make sure that is correct. I think the aluminum poles might be the answer to those sudden winds. 

If I can get time to go to my storage garage, I’ll try to tinker with it this weekend. 

Tabaz

Nomad uses two tent poles to keep his visor secure.  I'd imagine that extra stability would allow the use of some shade screen. 

ScottG

You might find the PahaQue awning a good compromise. Much more coverage than the visor, but still relatively simple to set up. Ventilation is okay with the sides up--less than the visor but certainly more than the tent.

DesertDweller

Thanks for your comments.
@ScottG; yes, I have been tempted by the awning.  It may be the way to go.  I have used the full tent in the summer in N. Ariz. at a 7000' elevation and when the sun was striking the roof of the tent full on, it was rather warm inside the tent, even with all the ventilation fully open.  I wonder if throwing a lightweight tarp over the tent and lightly securing it might help with that.  

GatorEgg

The visor from Allpro has a fringe along the edge.  That may be enough for your needs.

Sharon_is_SAM

@DesertDweller, if you are looking for a very easy, relatively cheap source of shade, you can’t beat the King Camp/Hasika available on Amazon.  You can use it several ways - very easy to secure to the TaB.  5 min. set up.

DesertDweller

@GatorEgg; @Sharon_is_SAM Thanks both for the pointers.  I will check them out.  

Michigan_Mike

If you already own a visor and want to fully utilize it with what you have, consider setting the visor up on the driver’s side wall of the 320.  You may or may not have a slot in place in the Keder rail but it’s simple enough to make the slot if you take it slow.  The slot is about credit card wide and with a set of lineman’s pliers or a similar tool you can take your time, grip the edge of the Keder rail and gently bend it upwards, one small area at a time.  Mark the distance first with either a pencil lead or Sharpie and this will allow you to use both sides of the trailer and find shade as needed.  Worked well for me...  👍🏻

TABaker

I own various types of T@B shade, different size Visors, add-a-room, full awning, but for quick one-night stays a market umbrella works fantastic for moveable shade.  I always carry one, and often use it in conjunction with my larger Visor. 

ScottG

DesertDweller said:

Thanks for your comments.
@ScottG; yes, I have been tempted by the awning.  It may be the way to go.  I have used the full tent in the summer in N. Ariz. at a 7000' elevation and when the sun was striking the roof of the tent full on, it was rather warm inside the tent, even with all the ventilation fully open.  I wonder if throwing a lightweight tarp over the tent and lightly securing it might help with that.  

Now that I think about it, I believe the new AllPro Adventures awning has more open sides for better ventilation. Set-up seems to be about the same as the PahaQue.

I like the PahaQue because it provides more options for rain, wind, and bug protection, but if just shade in hot climates was the priority I'd give the Allpro a serious look.

DesertDweller

Thank you all for your suggestions.  Lots to think about and try out a few. 

Cbusguy

The weak point on the setup is the keder rail.  I have read complaints of folks stating their keder rail was pulled off the trailer when leaving the awning up during a storm.   I assume it had some high wind associated with it.   

Just be aware even with better poles and more secure ground anchors wind still maybe an issue.

DesertDweller

For those of you who have the PahaQue awning, how difficult is it to install by yourself?  Does it easily feed through the keder rail?  Also, even using a solar reflective tarp, I notice that the heat of the direct sun transmits through the material.  Is the same true with the awning?

ScottG

I most always have a second set of hands when setting up the awning, but it's not overly difficult to do solo. Feeding through the keder rail is no problem, and I don't even use spray lubricant as some have advocated.

The futzier part is probably getting the pole installed. After that you just stake up the two straps and you're done.

As for the heat issue, it can get warm under there--especially if there is no breeze--but I'm not sure there's any option where that won't apply to some extent.

Marceline

Cbusguy said:

The weak point on the setup is the keder rail.  I have read complaints of folks stating their keder rail was pulled off the trailer when leaving the awning up during a storm.   I assume it had some high wind associated with it.   

I've only heard that happening with the clamshell kitchen tent.
That tent ships from PahaQue with a plastic keder rail that attaches to the clamshell lid with double sided tape.
The awning keder rail on the side of T@B is screwed to the trailer and even in a hurricane I'd think that the awning would rip before the keder rail would get torn off the trailer.

DesertDweller

Thanks for the info @ScottG.  Bailey, my dog, is my typical camping companion.  While she is always willing to help me set up camp, with her paws she is all "thumbs."  Although, she has been known to hold things in her mouth from time to time.   

Homebodyatheart

@DesertDweller I will use my XL visor for a single night stay. It gives me enough shade for me and a small table. I also take it down before bedtime if there’s going to be wind because it annoys me and I don’t want to worry about it. 

DesertDweller

@Homebodyatheart  Looks like a very nice set up.  I am torn between trying to make my DIY tarp work, ordering the visor or the awning.  I already have the side tent, but it gets very warm in direct sun and is really a bit much for an overnight trip.

Homebodyatheart

@DesertDweller, um... I have both, and both are very useful in different settings. Actually if I’m in fairly good sun I have had the tarp awning in front and xl visor on the back side for more shade. If it’s just a one night stop I don’t bother with the tarp awning. My first was 8’x10’, this one is 10’x12’ and I need a third pole for the bigger one or it sags in the middle like crazy. But I can be outside in any weather and I love it!

Homebodyatheart

@DesertDweller then there’s this setup for full sun setups... it’s a whole different beast and it works pretty well. Any popup awning with a 10’x10’ leg span will work. 

Homebodyatheart

@Cbusguy I was in a storm in May with wind gusts up to 70mph I was told. My keder rail is fine, however my tarp awning started pulling out from the windward side. I know it’s stable up to 50-60mph winds though. Again, never a problem with the keder rail.

Michigan_Mike

DesertDweller said:

@Homebodyatheart  Looks like a very nice set up.  I am torn between trying to make my DIY tarp work, ordering the visor or the awning.  I already have the side tent, but it gets very warm in direct sun and is really a bit much for an overnight trip.

IMHO you will be much happier with either a visor or an awning.  I use the visor for quick setups when traveling as it goes up in a flash and can be easily taken down on a moments notice should a strong weather front be eminent or if you want to remove it quickly.  Whether you have a tarp or any outdoor structure, whether it’s attached to the trailer, staked down, portable structures, etc. high wind conditions will dictate when to use good judgement and protect your investment. 

I have used the Paha Que’ visors, awning and side tent on my former 320 T@B and the visor and awning on our 2019 T@B and we have really enjoyed them as they are durable, rugged and well made products. I still have my Paha Que’ Cottonwood XLT 10x10 XLT canopy with the sewn in Keder rope too as we use it for camping and family events.  

One thing I will say about the awning is that we have really enjoyed it on the 400 because you can raise the side flaps for more air flow and they can be also be lowered to  provide added privacy in campgrounds where foot traffic is heavy and eliminate some of the gawkers when you prefer to just sit back, relax, enjoy a cold beverage, read s book, etc.  If the awning is staked down it does take some good wind gusts, but my rule of thumb is that when winds start hitting 20-30 mph and above consistent or prolonged wind conditions it’s time to protect the investment.  

And let me reiterate what Marceline notes above, that the Keder rail on these trailers isn’t coming off the trailer and have never heard of this happening.  It would take a Wizard of Oz event for something like that to occur.  If that does happen and you are out in the hinterlands, just click your heels together.  😉

DesertDweller

@Homebodyatheart ; @Michigan_Mike
Thanks to both of you for your thoughts and the pictures.  

@Homebodyatheart :  How is your tarp connected to the keder rail?

@Michigan_Mike : Is it difficult for one person to set up the PahaQue Cottonwood XLT?  I have come to learn that many things seem to require three hands.  Also, was the sewn-in keder rope something you added later as a DIY modification or does PahaQue sell it that way?  Also, would it work with a 320s or just the 400?

Michigan_Mike

DesertDweller said:

@Michigan_Mike : Is it difficult for one person to set up the PahaQue Cottonwood XLT?  I have come to learn that many things seem to require three hands.  Also, was the sewn-in keder rope something you added later as a DIY modification or does PahaQue sell it that way?  Also, would it work with a 320s or just the 400?

Let me just say that the awning does require some strength to set up.  The aluminum pole sections slide through a sewn in sleeve on the canopy fabric and each leg attaches into a grommet at the foot of the canopy.  I just release or open the foot straps full open and insert them.  But they do have a tendency to move so that sometimes creates frustration while setting it up.  And yes, it has a sewn-in Keder rope on one side rain fly section and additional one on the other end.  This increases your shade area and they also sell additional side panels that are nice too.  

Homebodyatheart

@DesertDweller I bought the insert strip on Amazon and sewed it on a tarp. Very simple!  Make sure you order the correct size. The US Keder rails are a bit larger than the European keder rails, and if you order the smaller size it will just pull right out and won’t do you any good. 

Keder - 8.5mm (5/16") Welded Flap, Standard, Black - 15 Feet

1. 

$ 15 99 

 

 

DesertDweller

@Homebodyatheart
I have read other posts about sewing a tarp to the keder flap you linked to.  So, did you just use a regular home improvement store tarp and a regular sewing machine?  What kind of thread?  Any special needle?  Did you seal the stitching with seam tape or something?  

Tampakayaker

@DesertDweller, my wife just finished making a visor/eyelash/potato chip type awning for our new to us 320.  She used sunbrella fabric from JoAnns on clearance, I ordered a 20 foot aluminum tent pole from Amazon and the keder tape/rope that was shown a couple replies up.  She was able to get most of it sewn using her regular sewing machine and a heavy polyester thread, but it bogged down when she was going thru the webbing re-enforcements for the poles. She found an old all metal heavy duty sewing machine on FB maketplace for $30 that went thru everything after I oiled it and tightened the belt.  The instructions and pattern were on a T@B FB group.  I think not counting the machine we had $40 to $50 invested.

Jackie_Dave

I used Coats & Clark Outdoor thread from Joann's with a denim needle and it was very easy to sew. We had a canopy that we tent camped with and re-purposed that by sewing the keder rope onto it. 

Here's a thread that might help.

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/7502/fabric-for-visor#latest

DesertDweller

Thanks to both of you.  But, not being very handy at all, I recently broke down and bought a XL sized visor from PahaQue (they were having a 15% off sale with free shipping).  It was just delivered the other day, and I plan to try it out over Veterans' Day weekend.