Quality Control

jgram2 · August 2019

Never having had the opportunity to go on the factory tour, I’m curious if any mention or demonstration of Quality Control processes were included? If so, how was it covered in the tour? Thanks.

Sharon_is_SAM · August 2019

I don’t recall any process ever being discussed.

jgram2 · August 2019

Thanks @Sharon_is_SAM I didn’t necessarily expect that to be covered, just hoped so. Especially since their products have been so well done historically.

webers3 · August 2019

Quality control? Not mentioned

jkjenn · August 2019

I am pretty sure that every new unit goes through their spray room to check for leaks.

webers3 · August 2019

Just my opinion, I think QC is done in the field, ie: owners. Less costly for Nucamp, frustrating for owners who have to fix the issues.

Allie · August 2019

webers3 said:

Just my opinion, I think QC is done in the field, ie: owners. Less costly for Nucamp, frustrating for owners who have to fix the issues.

Having had a 2015 CS-S T@B, I agree. But, after delivery, the RV dealer should be doing a general check of all operational items before delivery: water (with and w/o hook ups), flush toilet, open faucets, plug into a standard 30 amp pole, battery, turn on all lights, furnace, refridgerator, TV, stereo system, cooktop, check for any water leakage from plumbing. There are probably more items, but this is a good start. Dealers just want their money. The number of warranty claims by NuCamp should tell them if they need QC at the factory, or better dealers.
Don't ask how I know.

Sharon_is_SAM · August 2019

I was told nuCamps warranty claims were very low - 1%. Keep in mind, folks report issues on the forum, we don’t talk about those things that work well.

TNOutback · August 2019

Sharon_is_SAM said:

I was told nuCamps warranty claims were very low - 1%. Keep in mind, folks report issues on the forum, we don’t talk about those things that work well.

I must be in the 1% club then.

tabiphile · August 2019

In modern manufacturing most production facility tours include an introduction to the quality system as well as visible quality metrics and performance results. You expect to see things like turns, defect rates, production targets and results. You might see fill rates, parts shortages, expedite plans etc. If the facility is ISO you might see training records, warranty claims etc. Generally in a continuous improvement lean environment what is posted is going to be what you want to measure in order to achieve "quality". Whatever you measure always tends to improve, what you don't doesn't. The squeaky wheel really does get the attention. Unusually low warranty numbers are almost as alarming a really high ones....In one case there probably isn't a very good system in place for tracking and in the other there is a system that is reporting big T. Always at issue is how companies measure build/production defects vs. actual field failures. Fast growing companies often allow the quality system to lag in order to permit growth. Then when defects get out of hand they try to measure quality back in while they try to hang on to production and growth goals. Building a quality first culture is not easy.

jgram2 · August 2019

Thank you @tabiphile.

jkjenn · August 2019

The last I knew, nüCamp was the only RV maker using CNC machinery. Let that sink in for a minute. CNC machinery and a spray room. Who else is doing that with RVs?

I would be pretty surprised if nüCamp did not track issues and alsonif they did not have a QC process in place.

I think you cater your tours to your audiences. If giving industry folks a tour it will look vastly different than the average RV owner.

Verna · August 2019

Marvin is now part of the Quality Control team, as is Jess Mullet, the son of the original owner of Pleasant Valley Teardrop/nüCamp RV, along with others.

Marvin has helped all of us for years with the unsolvable problems. He has been known to drive or fly to an owner’s residence to fix a mysterious problem.

He and Ed are the ones who came up with nüCamp’s version of the Alde fix for the high altitude propane fix (pre-Alde 3020 version). Allegedly, Airstream refers their owners to the “nüCamp RV fix” for the high altitude propane fix. (Yes, Airstream uses the Alde also.)

TNOutback · August 2019

I hope you are right, @Verna, but what has just happened with my 400 is just not explainable if there were any QC in place. (Multiple obvious errors missed, requiring the camper to be shipped back to the factory right after it arrived). Maybe it is growing pains, adding both the Avia and the little British camper (that I can’t recall the name of) and there’s too much stress on the process?

jkjenn · August 2019

TNOutback said:

I hope you are right, @Verna, but what has just happened with my 400 is just not explainable if there were any QC in place. (Multiple obvious errors missed, requiring the camper to be shipped back to the factory right after it arrived). Maybe it is growing pains, adding both the Avia and the little British camper (that I can’t recall the name of) and there’s too much stress on the process?

The Barefoot is not in production. The answer is never enough for people, but it is true: humans built the product and there will always be human error. You can look at a thing a dozen times and not see what is wrong with it. You can have the right processes in place and as long as people are in the mix, there will be error, for many reasons.

What @Sharon_is_SAM about the low rate of warranty issues speaks volumes as do the countless stories of dealers explaining how much better made the T@b is...I know I had a dealer tell me that much and how they were discontinuing their relationship with one of the bigger labels out of Elkhart, due to quality.

People expect these to come out flawless and many do. People rarely go find a forum to post about their great experience, though, and more often post if there is a problem, thus creating the perception that there are more issues than there are actually are. I am not implying your issues were not real and it is not comforting to you to hear that most people never had an issue, but I think it can help the casual reader to have the broader perspective.

idletab · August 2019

jkjenn said:

TNOutback said:

I hope you are right, @Verna, but what has just happened with my 400 is just not explainable if there were any QC in place. (Multiple obvious errors missed, requiring the camper to be shipped back to the factory right after it arrived). Maybe it is growing pains, adding both the Avia and the little British camper (that I can’t recall the name of) and there’s too much stress on the process?

The Barefoot is not in production. The answer is never enough for people, but it is true: humans built the product and there will always be human error. You can look at a thing a dozen times and not see what is wrong with it. You can have the right processes in place and as long as people are in the mix, there will be error, for many reasons.

What @Sharon_is_SAM about the low rate of warranty issues speaks volumes as do the countless stories of dealers explaining how much better made the T@b is...I know I had a dealer tell me that much and how they were discontinuing their relationship with one of the bigger labels out of Elkhart, due to quality.

People expect these to come out flawless and many do. People rarely go find a forum to post about their great experience, though, and more often post if there is a problem, thus creating the perception that there are more issues than there are actually are. I am not implying your issues were not real and it is not comforting to you to hear that most people never had an issue, but I think it can help the casual reader to have the broader perspective.

Thanks for your opinion. Mine is that nuCamp has some serious growing pains in the QA department for such an expensive trailer.

MiquelCamo · August 2019

I worked in manufacturing for 30 years. I saw quality programs develop over those years and corrective actions were used to prevent defects. I saw what was initially found to be "human error" create issues but I rarely saw it accepted as the root cause. Research why something happened and you can establish controls and processes to prevent future occurrences. People need the tools, procedures and discipline to make quality 100% of the time. I saw it happen when a new general manager had supervisors answer for every piece of scrap in a printed circuit board plant. They had to create robust, repeatable processes. The problem is it's not always cheap or easy. Quality is not a department or a person, it is a culture.

jkjenn · August 2019

MiquelCamo said:

Quality is not a department or a person, it is a culture.

Which is exactly why so many of us have been happy with our T@bs. I had no real issues that were not related to error from being a first-time RV owner. Even my non-warra ty issues have been dealt with the highest degree of attenton, professionalism and more care than I would have expected.

I think the less than 1% rate speaks for itself. It's never fun when you are part of that less 1% rate, though and it is important that you are heard if you are. I know Scott takes customer concerns s very seriously and when @Verna said she referred the issue to nüCamp, it made me confident that it would be dealt with based on everything I have observed from nüCamp over the last 5 years.

bellimages · March 2020

webers3 said:

Just my opinion, I think QC is done in the field, ie: owners. Less costly for Nucamp, frustrating for owners who have to fix the issues.

I watched quality control in process as I toured the factory. A person checks things as the units move though the assembly line. I'm shocked that some think that a manufacturer such as NuCamp (who employs the Amish because quality is paramount to them) wouldn't do any quality control in the factory.

Denny16 · March 2020

I think, nuCamp has one of the best products in the trade, right up there with Airstream. As for QC, trailers are spot checked, but even so some issues may get missed. The dealer is the bottom line in double checking your trailer, and is part of being a nuCamp dealer, according to mine.

Warranty service is second to none, what other RV manufacturer is going to replace the entire floor on a two year plus old trailer, nuCamp is, they are sending me a entire new floor for my late 2018 TaB400, which developed the dreaded “soft spot/buckle issue in the substitute floor, and a new front window to have my dealer install, their technician is one of nuCamp’s trouble shooter techs and goes back to the factory once a year to help solve issues.

I am very happy with the after sale service I am getting on a lightly used (to me) trailer.
cheers.

jameskuzman · March 2020

Since the NuCamp factory is only about 90 minutes from my house, I had the opportunity to tour it before purchasing. What I saw influenced our decision to buy our T@B 400.

I don't know what their formal QC process looks like (if one even exists) but I can tell you firsthand that they clean as they go during the assembly process, wiping things down and vacuuming up the sawdust created along the way. The work stations - including the floors - are perfectly organized and spotless.

They do use CNC machines (as does Airstream these days) not only as a means of being more time-efficient, but because the repeatability and precision CNC offers cannot be matched by someone cutting by hand or even with a power tool. As others have said the machines don't run unattended - they are manned when in operation.

That said, these trailers are low-volume, hand-built products, and people will make mistakes during assembly, so expecting perfection is unrealistic.

We're about to have four warranty issues addressed. One is a piece of split plastic trim where the bathroom door hinge screws in - probably a case of someone over-tightening it during assembly. Another is a slight gap in the door which I'm sure is just a matter of adjustment. The other two issues are component related - a rattling sound from the refrigerator compressor, and a "hooting" sound from the Cool Cat fan that sounds like something is interfering with the airflow.

That's it.

One final thought: I was at an Airstream dealer a few weeks ago that also sells NuCamp and some other brands. I was traveling for work, noticed how close it was, had some extra time, and had never seen an Airstream in person, so I stopped in. The salesman and I got to talking about quality control and the PDI (pre-delivery inspection) process that all dealers go through when they receive new trailers from the manufactures. There's almost always *something* that needs fixing, and it's not always little things.

The brand that requires almost never requires their attention upon delivery: NuCamp.

TNOutback · March 2020

I hate to be the contrarian here, and I’ve been hesitant to post much about it, but apparently we are in that “1%” category with our T@B. Our new 2020 400 had 14 separate warranty claims immediately after purchase, and that is not counting the Air8 issue still unresolved. The unfortunate aspect of this is every one of them could have been caught at the factory with a simple visual or function check before shipping to the dealer. If that had been done, our ownership experience would have been completely different.

Maybe ours just somehow slipped through a final QC check, if there is such a process. I don’t know if anyone here has had the experience of touring the Corvette plant in Bowling Green, Kentucky before, but at the end of the production line is a team of white-glove wearing folks who meticulously go over and in everything on that car, right down to the stitching on the seats. If anything needs correction, the car is pulled out and does not go out the door for delivery. I think NuCamp would do well to adopt this practice.

jkjenn · March 2020

TNOutback said:

I hate to be the contrarian here, and I’ve been hesitant to post much about it, but apparently we are in that “1%” category with our T@B. Our new 2020 400 had 14 separate warranty claims immediately after purchase, and that is not counting the Air8 issue still unresolved. The unfortunate aspect of this is every one of them could have been caught at the factory with a simple visual or function check before shipping to the dealer. If that had been done, our ownership experience would have been completely different.

Maybe ours just somehow slipped through a final QC check, if there is such a process. I don’t know if anyone here has had the experience of touring the Corvette plant in Bowling Green, Kentucky before, but at the end of the production line is a team of white-glove wearing folks who meticulously go over and in everything on that car, right down to the stitching on the seats. If anything needs correction, the car is pulled out and does not go out the door for delivery. I think NuCamp would do well to adopt this practice.

As far as your warranty issues go, I am sure nüCamp would be appalled, but honestly, so many things makes me wonder about your dealer. Did the damage in transit or on the lot? Hard to say.

Like @J@jameskuzman pointed out, comparing auto manufacturers' processes to RVs is almost like comparing apple's to oranges.

I hope you have the chance to visit the nüCamp factory at some point. I can only echo James' experience. It is impressive.

jameskuzman · March 2020

TNOutback said:

I hate to be the contrarian here, and I’ve been hesitant to post much about it, but apparently we are in that “1%” category with our T@B. Our new 2020 400 had 14 separate warranty claims immediately after purchase, and that is not counting the Air8 issue still unresolved. The unfortunate aspect of this is every one of them could have been caught at the factory with a simple visual or function check before shipping to the dealer. If that had been done, our ownership experience would have been completely different.

That's disappointing, and even if it's not typical, it's still not acceptable.

Without knowing what your specific issues are (though now I'm very curious, I'll admit) I don't doubt you when you say they could have and should have been addressed at the factory (ideally) or by the delivering dealer (as a backup to the manufacturer). Sounds like there were two critical missed opportunities here.

Jim

tabiphile · March 2020

jkjenn said:

Like @J@jameskuzman pointed out, comparing auto manufacturers' processes to RVs is almost like comparing apple's to oranges.

Quality systems are the same in any industry. Implementation will vary depending upon product or process but the principles of how to achieve a zero defects environment are the same. What you might be trying to say is that the RV industry does not subscribe to modern quality system management practices and that would be largely true much as it is true that the automotive business does. There is nothing that prevents an RV manufacturer from implementing a proper quality system. What sets NuCamp apart in the industry is that they really mean well and they try real hard at doing things well. That is not the same as managing the manufacturing process to eliminate defects/out of box failures or to moderate warranty claims due to field failures. They ain't there...however good their workmanship standards are vs. anyone else's….that's the apples and oranges part. Quality system practices vs. good intentions. It's OK to discuss these things...all industries eventually pass through these hoops as they mature.

jkjenn · March 2020

tabiphile said:

jkjenn said:

Like @J@jameskuzman pointed out, comparing auto manufacturers' processes to RVs is almost like comparing apple's to oranges.

Quality systems are the same in any industry. Implementation will vary depending upon product or process but the principles of how to achieve a zero defects environment are the same. What you might be trying to say is that the RV industry does not subscribe to modern quality system management practices and that would be largely true much as it is true that the automotive business does. There is nothing that prevents an RV manufacturer from implementing a proper quality system. What sets NuCamp apart in the industry is that they really mean well and they try real hard at doing things well. That is not the same as managing the manufacturing process to eliminate defects/out of box failures or to moderate warranty claims due to field failures. They ain't there...however good their workmanship standards are vs. anyone else's….that's the apples and oranges part. Quality system practices vs. good intentions. It's OK to discuss these things...all industries eventually pass through these hoops as they mature.

Nope. That wasn't what zi was trying to say. You can adopt modern methods without being prescriptive or dogmatic about them. Smart businesses do that. You take the principles that work for your business ess model and implement them. Agile is a great example.I know many teams who adopt Agile mi dsets but dont run true sprints.

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