How do you protect yourself when travelling?

Verna · November 2019

@ChanW, yup, the AZ coyotes are smallish (about like a border collie, but not as pretty), scroungy looking, still cunning, not nearly as pretty as the midwestern ones.

I saw some scroungy taller ones “napping” along the Interstate on the way to the Gulf Coast last week.

So it looks like your taller ones are probably a result of supply and demand....lots of food means larger ones, too much competition and less food means smaller ones.

telecamper · November 2019

iam thinking mr mossburg might be an option, as we have not had any guns or protection other than petey our 35lbs cattledog he is Leary of other people when in the camper or the car, or hitched, on his leash or loose he like people and other dogs!

coylizard · November 2019

Dogs are a good "first line" of defense in that they are able to perceive visitors earlier than we can and they are generally willing to alert us to something unusual.

A dog's behavior is often sufficient to send the unwanted visitor elsewhere.

Not all dogs are built alike however.

Not all dogs are true guard dogs.

Not all dogs will stand between master and a charging black bear sow with cubs!

I am of the opinion that a small arsenal of devices and weapons can/should be considered for self defense.

It's good to have the right tool for the job.

Bear spray is really effective!

There are bear spray canisters that will deliver a potent spray of irritant up to twenty feet.

Spray into the eyes, nose, and mouth is one strategy but the truth is, the solutions available now are so irritating, even a small whiff of the spray is often sufficient to send an angry bear... or other bipedal subjects... off to other adventures.

Tasers are increasingly available and are an effective deterrent when used properly.

Tasers are limited in their applications... but they can be helpful.

While I am sensitive to and respect arguments against guns, I am a strong proponent of personal safety and self defense.

I'd rather have a weapon and not need it than need it and not have it.

I've had my pistol gripped Mossberg 12 guage shotgun for thirty years

and

while I have used it many many times to obliterate targets, watermelons, cantaloupes, beer cans, y mas... I have never needed to fire at a human being.

The threat of use is generally sufficient to negate the need for use.

I encountered three (would be) "banditos" late one night as I was sitting outside my camper in the dark.

The three suspicious characters slowly and quietly approached my campsite...

stealthily cautious...

seemingly intent on activities other than sharing good tidings.

I politely made my presence known.

I inquired as to their activity.

The leader started talking... making no good sense... and rambled on about several irrelevant diversions.

As he talked, the other two individuals separated and started to walk around to my sides.

They were startled when I lifted the Mossberg and chambered a round.

Please understand, there is something very special about the sound of chamberring a round in a 12 guage Mossberg shotgun that immediately demands one's undivided attention.

To see a loaded 12 guage pistol gripped Mossberg shotgun with a round ready to fire in the chamber aimed at your chest, your plans suddenly change.

The three (would be) "banditos" heard and saw the weapon and they immediately understood the implications of my having a weapon trained on them.

They apologized... profusely... for mistakenly approaching my site.

With hands in the air, they defended themselves by offering desperate excuses... and slowly backed away.

They left.

When I was convinced they were gone,

I broke camp and relocated.

Unfired, the Mossberg... I believe... saved the night.

Cbusguy · November 2019

Yep a shotgun being racked is a sound every villian knows.

Emma62 · November 2019

Wow CozyL, everyone hunts here in MN and I both shoot well and am comfortable around people hunting but if I saw you at a campsite flaunting a gun and knife on your belt I would move on.

dCliffhanger · November 2019

Camping and backpacking for over 50 years. Never, ever felt a need for a weapon. Bear spray is carried where warranted. So, I guess that would be my go to should a bad situation develop.

GatorEgg · November 2019

Really? Dog treats? I see the title of this thread. Read the original post about murders and next thing II read is about carrying dog treats. That’s not even bringing a knife to a gunfight!

coylizard · November 2019

Emma62,

You understand, I am sure...

that appearances can be deceiving

and

first impressions are not always accurate.

If one is out and about, innocently enjoying the day, and they suddenly and unexpectedly encounter an unknown, big, German Shepherd that looks like Rocket ( a BEAUTIFUL dog, Ratkity!),

one would hesitate, mind their manners, and try to avoid any sudden provocation.

Once it is learned that the big German Shepherd is well trained and will engage select individuals only upon Master's command, one feels more comfortable in the presence of the big German Shepherd... and, in fact one finds that the presence of the big German Shepherd offers a sense of security and safety.

An armed individual who happens to be a solo camper boondocked in an isolated location far removed from the nearest neighbor or settlement is not likely to threaten a law abiding and civil passerby unnecessarily... and, is more likely to be a neighborly confidant.

A holstered weapon, a sheathed hunting knife, access to bear spray, and a reliable pistol gripped Mossberg shotgun all available when needed in a remote and isolated environment does NOT make a man threatening.

They make a man prepared.

So please Emma62, fear not...

the next armed, solo camper you encounter might be a "SuperHero wan'o be" who has you best interests in mind.

Be safe.

Sharon_is_SAM · November 2019

@GatorEgg, @ChanW was referring to how coyotes view little dogs like Verna’s Shih tzu Sunny Day, hence carrying a big stick to defend her.

ChanW · November 2019

@coylizard, it would be useful to know where you were camped.

I'd like to avoid that campsite!

tabiphile · November 2019

Where do you draw the line? I have friends that concealed carry sidearms in church. My firearms are used for hunting and shooting sports but I have never felt a need to carry for "protection". It's been often proven that the presence of self protection firearms escalates situations..there are stories of successful self protection but even more of unsuccessful events. Cycling a round through a rattle trap Mossberg to send a message??? Sorry, that's both unsafe and in many places, illegal.
A cell phone picture or two of a suspicious character is equally effective. It's not a dramatic, but it works.

Verna · November 2019

All of us have our own ideas of how we want to protect ourselves, and if you have never thought of needing to protect yourselves, our owners have presented their ideas of how they choose to protect themselves.

Just because someone has a different idea than your idea does not make them wrong.

@GatorEgg , my 15 lb Shih Tzu, Sunny Day, is frequently referred to as a “Coyote burrito” or a “Coyote Treat” because a coyote would not hesitate to attack her because she is much smaller than a coyote. This is the reason I carry a walkIng stick in AZ while walking my small dog.

Walk softly and carry a large stick.

N7SHG_Ham · November 2019

@tabiphile there are large amounts of guns at gun shows, no punk has ever tried a mass shooting at one because everyone there is armed. Mass shooting tend to happen in gun free zones where rules say no guns allowed. That apparently does not stop folks intent on shooting people in those locations.

I live in a town where there are tons of CCW folks walking around minding their own business and the classes are offered frequently. One group of guys I meet with weekly I would venture to say has a high percentage carrying, I feel perfectly safe.

The best protection while camping is evaluation of site before setting up and making good choices. The best defense if someone later shows up with intent to harm is probably going to be a firearm that you are comfortable with along with having training and regular practice. If it comes to some thug vs me, I hope it is them going down.

In the whole discussion here that started this topic we maybe forgot that a couple died while boondocking. Did they pick a bad spot? Did the murderer show up after they had been there a few days? What could they have done differently? What would we do different other than not camp there? This is a real situation where sadly two people died while on a dream trip many of us would like to do. Thinking about how to not end up dead is a valid concern. Bringing a stick or bear spray or a cell phone to a gun fight isn't going to go well.

coylizard · November 2019

Yes Verna,

I agree one hundred percent...

we all are entitled to our opinions and alternative perspectives are not necessarily wrong.

I will never argue that my proposed policies are for all people.

They're not.

My policies are designed to serve those who choose to adapt my proposed policies.

If one prefers an alternative approach, c'est la vie.

I represent myself and I position myself to serve and protect.

I do not advocate that everyone pack a firearm for safety.

Yes, there are those that are incapable of the safely managing the responsibility.

If a weapon is concealed in church, I do not see the harm.

It is doubtful that God will object.

Is a weapon in church necessary?

Probably not... though one never knows for sure.

Chambering a round in a shotgun, Tabiphile is not intended to simply send a message.

Chambering a round in a shotgun prepares the weapon holder for what might happen next.

When three would be "banditos" are approaching me in an isolated location after dark with intentions to spread mayhem and destruction... to commit evil and violent acts,

I will not simply whip out my cellphone and take photos...

that is laughable! and likely a fruitless endeavor.

I will do what I must to survive the situation.

Like it or not,

the threat of a one ounce slug of lead fired by a twelve guage shotgun is more effective as a bargaining chip than a high resolution cell phone camera.

And by the way, my thirty plus year old Mossberg "rattletrap" will still perform as desired: effectively. (the snide reference is invalid!)

dCliffhanger · November 2019

I must, obviously, have a different perspective than some. Every day, somewhere people get murdered. It is reported from all over the country creating the impression that any moment it's going to happen to you. In fact, it is highly, repeat, highly unlikely to happen to you. Something under 1% in your lifetime. Adjust this for the locations you are likely to be camping, parks and wild lands not big cities. For the most part, the other people out there are likely to be peaceful recreationalists like ourselves. It is always good to exercise good judgement in choosing where you go and the places you put down your stakes. Yes one can have random bad luck, and yes women must exercise more caution than others. But, that is different than being afraid, or paranoid or overly defensive which in itself would make me wary and camp elsewhere until I got to know the person.

GatorEgg · November 2019

Coylizard agreed. You probably know the saying.
There are three types of people:
wolves, sheep and sheep headers. You yourself determine which one you are.

grsiepka · November 2019

So I'm in the "I don't bring any form of protection, but I think maybe I should." camp. It's funny, I grew up in Chicago area for 42 years, Commuted into the city daily for 20 of those years. Was never a gun guy and never really felt the need to carry even in some of the "sketchy" parts of town.

However, last year the wife and I moved to AZ, and with the new T@B400 have been out in some of the dispersed campsites in National Forest land. Not sure why but something about being out in the middle of nowhere has had me start thinking of taking some gun safety classes and picking up some type of protection. Maybe its the "city boy in the woods" feeling that has me thinking like that? haha.

DougH · November 2019

@grsiepka ; Grew up thereabouts (Streamwood etc) as well. Howdy neighbor. But then I moved to Texas, where everyone has a dozen shotguns, their few fave rifles, and a small (<100) collection of pistols. I felt forced to assimilate when I married a Texan.

dCliffhanger · November 2019

grsiepka said:

So I'm in the "I don't bring any form of protection, but I think maybe I should." camp. It's funny, I grew up in Chicago area for 42 years, Commuted into the city daily for 20 of those years. Was never a gun guy and never really felt the need to carry even in some of the "sketchy" parts of town.

However, last year the wife and I moved to AZ, and with the new T@B400 have been out in some of the dispersed campsites in National Forest land. Not sure why but something about being out in the middle of nowhere has had me start thinking of taking some gun safety classes and picking up some type of protection. Maybe its the "city boy in the woods" feeling that has me thinking like that? haha.

I suspect that, having grown up in Chicago's environment with one of the highest gun violence rates in the country, you still felt comfortable due to your familiarity. I also suspect that your new dispersed camping environment may actually be orders of magnitude safer. But, due yours and many other's lack of familiarity with a new more "wild" environment, your confidence is not the same. I suspect, also that given time, your confidence will grow.

Cbusguy · November 2019

@grsiepka I am a Luck favors the prepared sort of guy.

I would rather have it and not need it ever than wishing I had it. A firearm, taser or other personal protection needs to be always at the ready with the mindset to use it, otherwise the villian will more than likely just take it from you and use it against you.

Boondocking doesn't worry me, it is the urban dry camping/overnight parking in transit, rest areas, truck stops, parking lots. Lots of folks living on societies fringes frequent these spaces.

Not a decision to be taken lightly for sure.

dCliffhanger · November 2019

Cbusguy said:

Boondocking doesn't worry me, it is the urban dry camping/overnight parking in transit, rest areas, truck stops, parking lots. Lots of folks living on societies fringes frequent these spaces.

Not a decision to be taken lightly for sure.

I concur with your view of where the highest risks exist. And, it is good to be objectively prepared and aware without being warping your attitude to the point that you are nervous or even scared and not enjoying your travels.

grsiepka · November 2019

DougH said:

@grsiepka ; Grew up thereabouts (Streamwood etc) as well. Howdy neighbor. But then I moved to Texas, where everyone has a dozen shotguns, their few fave rifles, and a small (<100) collection of pistols. I felt forced to assimilate when I married a Texan.

Nice, ya it definitely was a culture shock in that regard, Open carry is a thing here and was surprising to see mom's at the grocery store with a pistol on their hip.

dCliffhanger · November 2019

Nice, ya it definitely was a culture shock in that regard, Open carry is a thing here and was surprising to see mom's at the grocery store with a pistol on their hip.

In case the zucchini get out of line.

Tabster · November 2019

65 pound pit bull.

How do you protect yourself when travelling?

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