Propane Draining when using Alde Heater

KarenK
KarenK Member Posts: 50
in Heating/Plumbing & Winterizing
I have a 2016 T@B with an Alde system and the manual controller.  I turned on the heat while camping in the mountains of NH using battery and propane.  After about 1 hr, the red light went on, which means no propane.  My propane had been rather full when I left home, but I went to check, and it was completely empty.  I replaced it, set everything back up, and after about 1 hr, same red light, propane tank was empty again!  Does anyone know what I did wrong?  I am sure this worked much better last year! 
2014 Little Guy T@B S Max
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Comments

  • Sharon_is_SAM
    Sharon_is_SAM Member Posts: 10,061
    If the tank is truly empty, then it sounds like you have a large propane leak.  Check your regulator, hose and tank valve.
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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  • ScottG
    ScottG Administrator Posts: 5,655
    Agreed. But...
    Wouldn't a leak that big close the automatic safety valve on the tank itself? Seems you'd also be smelling propane somewhere if it was coming out that fast. Something is not adding up here.
    2015 T@B Max S (320)
    2015 Nissan Frontier SV V6 4x4
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  • AirBoss
    AirBoss Member Posts: 740
    Yeah, doesn't sound like the Alde is the issue. Must be venting to the outside somewhere. Doesnt seem likely its venting inside the rig...you'd know that in a minute. Maybe fill tank, remove it from tub, run a firepit or or something with a separate regulator and check burn rate? 
    2020 T@B 400 "OTTO" (build date 08/19)
    Factory Victron Solar; Norcold 3-way fridge
    '04 Chevy Tahoe Z71 DinoKiller
    San Diego, CA
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  • webers3
    webers3 Member Posts: 435
    edited March 2020
    @KarenK "My propane had been rather full when I left home"
    How do you know it was full? How did you measure how much propane was in the tank?
    2017 T@B 320S   2019 Jeep Cherokee - Southern Connecticut
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  • Verna
    Verna Member Posts: 6,876
    I once had a 20 lb propane tank with a leaky valve. I did not want to take it anywhere, so I opened the valve after I put the tank in the middle of the back yard. It took over 18 hours for that tank to empty itself.   

    Just food for thought....
    Verna, Columbus, IN
    2021 T@B 320S  Boondock “The T@B”
    Towed by a white 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 Supercab, 3.5L V6 Ecoboost “The Truck”
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  • ChanW
    ChanW Member Posts: 3,165
    We used to use a screw-in in-line gauge on our tank.

    I found that the road vibration loosened it and allowed our propane to leak out.

    We no longer use the in-line gauge!

    Just a suggestion...
    Chan  -  near Buffalo NY
    2014 S Maxx
    2011 Tacoma 4cyl ... edit: 2022 Tacoma 6cyl - oh yeah! 

     A_Little_T@b'll_Do_Ya
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  • KarenK
    KarenK Member Posts: 50
    Thanks Chan, but the second tank drained out as well, and I hadn't moved in between tanks.
    2014 Little Guy T@B S Max
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  • rkj__
    rkj__ Member Posts: 641
    It was a pretty slow leak, but the the hose / "pigtail" that connects to my propane bottle developed a small leak at the one fitting. 

    You have a leak somewhere too.  It may or may not be related to the Alde.  If it is a large leak, simply listening when in a very quiet location. may help you find the leak.
    2016 T@b 320 CS-S - 2018 GMC Sierra - St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
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  • ScottG
    ScottG Administrator Posts: 5,655
    I'm still flummoxed by how you could vent 20lbs of propane in an hour and not hear or smell something.
    If I may ask, how are you determining that your tanks are full or empty?
    2015 T@B Max S (320)
    2015 Nissan Frontier SV V6 4x4
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  • KarenK
    KarenK Member Posts: 50

    Thank you all for your replies and after reviewing and considering your suggestions and comments, I wonder if the connection to my gauge had frozen?  I have an external gauge that I know isn’t the most accurate, but as long as it is in the green when I leave home I am usually okay.  When I left home it was in the green and the temperature in the 50s. I hadn’t used my propane a whole lot during the summer, so I figured it’d be good for 2 days.  When I got to the White Mountains in NH, the temperature was about low 30s. The gauge was the way I had left it; green. I heated some dinner and turned on the heat. All was progressing nicely, it was feeling warmish, then the red light went on, solid.  My manual stated I was out of propane. I checked the gauge and it was in the empty zone. I turned on the gas stove, no propane there either. So I figured the tank was empty. I don’t use the heat overnight anyhow, so I turned off the heat and snuggled up in my sleeping bag and read, then slept.  Next morning, no coffee :( . I went to the gas station in Lincoln with my tank, which was very lightweight. He lifted it and told me it felt empty (super scientific). He sold me a ‘full’ one for a hefty price, and it was heavier - though not as heavy as I thought it should be because I could actually easily lift it which isn’t usually the case.  But, it was definitely heavier, and when I installed it, the gauge showed green so I was happy. I turned on the Alde, all went well, I made tea, and after a bit, the solid red light went on. My gauge read empty. This is where I gave up. I had plenty of clothes and bedding and books and places to explore, so who needs heat?

    The next morning I drove home to CT and this morning, I finally checked my gauge.  It’s very much in the green, more so than when I had first left home, so I am assuming the tank is very full. I turned on the Alde, and since it’s 60 degrees here, the camper warmed up quickly, so the light didn’t go red. I guess I have to go camping in the mountains again to really test this!

    Now I am wondering, can something freeze near the propane tank (maybe the gauge connection)?  I probably should have removed it and tried again, but I didn’t consider that at the time. Since it doesn’t seem to be the Alde or the propane tank, all I can think of is that the cold weather froze something somewhere.  ???


    2014 Little Guy T@B S Max
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  • falcon1970
    falcon1970 Member Posts: 758
    @KarenK
    I am of the opinion that those propane gauges are inaccurate at best.  There are several other ways to gauge the propane level in a tank but they also seem to have issues of one type or another.
    Although it is somewhat annoying, I have found there best way to get a reasonably accurate gauge of propane level is to weigh the tank.  Propane weighs about 4.24 pounds per gallon.  The Tare Weight (TW) of the tank will be marked on the side of the tank.  A steel tank will have a TW of about 18 pounds.  Therefore, a full tank of propane should weigh about 38 pounds.  You'll probably find that an exchange tank from Lowe's or Home Depot will weigh somewhat less--maybe 33 pounds--because they only put 4 gallons of propane in those tanks rather than a full 5 gallons.
    You can buy a hand scale on line or in many stores.  Luggage scales work well.
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  • ChanW
    ChanW Member Posts: 3,165

    +1 what @falcon1970 said. The only real way is to weigh it...

    Also, as I mentioned, I too used one of those inline gauges, and then I found that it had vibrated loose and had leaked my propane out... That might be what happened to yours.

    Also, I wonder if the second time you had a red light indicator, if perhaps your battery was low. I believe that's another cause for that red light.

    Chan  -  near Buffalo NY
    2014 S Maxx
    2011 Tacoma 4cyl ... edit: 2022 Tacoma 6cyl - oh yeah! 

     A_Little_T@b'll_Do_Ya
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  • Bayliss
    Bayliss Member Posts: 1,496
    @KarenK , this article might be worth reading..........not sure if it addresses the issue you were having with your propane tank, but good to know info and suggestions.  Of particular interest is the fourth full paragraph, which starts with, "If you get a “hung up” LP cylinder . . . . "

    https://www.rvtravel.com/hooking-up-an-refilled-lp-cylinder-check-this-out/
    2019 T@B 320 S Boondock Lite; 2025 Toyota Tundra CrewMax 4x4
    (Alde: 3020; Refrig: Isotherm Cruise 65 Eleg; Battery: BB 100Ah LiFePO4; Solar: Renogy 220W Portable Suitcase w/ Victron SmartSolar MPPT 75/15 Controller; Victron BMV-712 Battery Monitor w/ Shunt; Pwr Cntr: PD-4135KW2B; EMS: PI-HW30C)
    Greg & Marlene (Tucson, AZ)


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  • tabiphile
    tabiphile Member Posts: 470
    The article @Bayliss attached describes the likely problem. A "hung up" tank is exactly what came to mind reading your post. It happens. Sometimes all you need to do is turn the tank off and then back on again to free it. Opening it slowly seems to help. You do not need to turn the valve all the way open. A few turns should be enough. If that doesn't do the trip, unscrew the tank and then hook it back up again as described in that article. I do not like to use exchange tanks. 
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  • ScottG
    ScottG Administrator Posts: 5,655
    edited March 2020
    @KarenK, the fact that this happened on two tanks--and that the gauge gave different readings under different conditions--gives some credence to the freezing up theory. I'm inclined to suspect the gauge itself is the culprit, as it seems to be the common denominator based on your detailed description of what happened.
    I suggest starting with a tank you know has sufficient propane. Confirm this by weighing it on a scale and ensuring it is at least several pounds heavier than the tare weight stamped on the tank. Hook up the tank without the gauge and try again.
    Of course, you will want to do this with a fully charged battery or, better yet, hooked up to shore power. As ChanW implied above, you don't want to confound your observations with a low 12V situation.
    2015 T@B Max S (320)
    2015 Nissan Frontier SV V6 4x4
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  • KarenK
    KarenK Member Posts: 50
    Thanks Scott, But I will need freezing weather - which doesn't seem to be a 'thing' in CT this winter! It's all working perfectly now.
    2014 Little Guy T@B S Max
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  • ScottG
    ScottG Administrator Posts: 5,655
    KarenK said:
    Thanks Scott, But I will need freezing weather - which doesn't seem to be a 'thing' in CT this winter! It's all working perfectly now.
    Yeah, good point!
    2015 T@B Max S (320)
    2015 Nissan Frontier SV V6 4x4
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  • Bayliss
    Bayliss Member Posts: 1,496
    edited March 2020
    Although not specifically related to the issue discussed in this thread, the below article (by the RV Doctor) is worth reading.  It provides some useful information on the redundant excess-flow check valve inside the ACME nut that is attached to the pigtail hose.

    https://www.rvtravel.com/rv-doctor-thumping-propane-regulator/
    2019 T@B 320 S Boondock Lite; 2025 Toyota Tundra CrewMax 4x4
    (Alde: 3020; Refrig: Isotherm Cruise 65 Eleg; Battery: BB 100Ah LiFePO4; Solar: Renogy 220W Portable Suitcase w/ Victron SmartSolar MPPT 75/15 Controller; Victron BMV-712 Battery Monitor w/ Shunt; Pwr Cntr: PD-4135KW2B; EMS: PI-HW30C)
    Greg & Marlene (Tucson, AZ)


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