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YEAH We got it!!! NO...We already feel over our heads!!!

KamateKamate Member Posts: 26
in Battery/Electrical & Solar
Good afternoon,

We placed our order for a '21 T@b 400 BD back in October, Last Saturday we got the call that she'd be ready for pick up this past Wednesday.  Needless to say we were super excited and felt "Comfortable" after nearly 7 months of YouTube videos, reading posts on FB and finally going through many, many of the conversations here (Big THANK YOU to you all for all the knowledge you've imparted).

We met with our dealer early yesterday morning and after 3 hour walkthrough, 1 hour with the parts department going over items we may need, 30 minutes with financing to formally sign and then 45 minutes of Test tow/E-Brake Calibration/Back up tutorial, we were on our way.

We got home as the sun set and felt pretty comfortable after the two hour drive having never towed anything in the past. (We did have a bit of a problem getting the truck off the ball but after a quick call to our salesman, we just let the truck roll bak and we were off the ball and off to bed after an exciting/stressfull day).

This morning my wife gets up early to start the cleaning/moving in process and with the temperature in the mid 30s, we started the Alde and had read (somewhere that conveniently scapes me these past five hours) that we could run a small space heater...You know where this is going???

My wife was letting the Alde come up to temperature when all fo the sudden (after about 30 minutes of running the small space heater) the heater powers down and the inverter, which previously had a blue light on in the connected socket, isn't turning on.

The lights still work.
Alde is warm and toasty (on propane).
USB sockets work, small fan and charges the phone.
But...
The inverter doesn't seem to work (no lights).

I've checked the breakers, fuses, Alde fuse (just because I'm starting to go crazy), outside fuse by the batter disconnect...ALL good.

I grabbed our house generator (10k Watts which has four 15 amp sockets built into it, plugged in our 15 amp dog bone, our surge protector, T@b power cord) and my wife reported that the inverter light came back on and the sockets worked!!!

Thought we were done and happy...Took the T@b off the generator, stowed all gear...Inverter not working again!?!?!?!?!?!

So needless to say, I've been trying to find the following:

1.  What's going on?
2.  How do I reset the inverter?
3.  Is it because I need more power than the solar provides so we can't run the inverter stuff?
4.  If 3 is yes, then is it a safe assumption that if/when boon docking we can't use the outlets?

I'm so sorry for this thesis, it does help the stress to know "Help is on the way".  Just feeling like I don't have the answers, even after I thought I had "Everything covered" ...Totally expected to trip up, just not this fast after getting it.

Thanks in advance for your assistance!
AJ
AJ & K
Virginia
2021 T@b 400 BD (N@lu 'Ima Ola)
2013 Toyota Tundra Ext. Cab V8 5.67L 4x4
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Comments

  • pthomas745pthomas745 Moderator Posts: 3,942
    edited March 2021
    You were running the space heater off the inverter?  So, you were running it off the battery?
    A small space heater will use lots of watts......The smallest little space heater I have here at home goes at about 1500 watts.......so, in about a half hour on the battery, it would have used......about 60 amp hours.......or more.
    How big is your battery?  How big (in watts) was the space heater?  If you have solar, find the Victron App and have a look at your battery voltage.
    If your Alde is running, most likely the solar panel is helping the battery power it, since the Alde needs about 11.0 volts to power it.
    Find your inverter manual, or give us the model number.
    Yes, you can use the inverter for all sorts of things...except for large, heat producing devices for long periods of time! 
    So:  how many watts does the space heater use?  How big is your battery, in amp hours?  How long did you run the heater?  Get your Victron app up and running.

    PS: reading this again:  I don't know how big your inverter is.  The space heater could also have been asking more from it than it could provide as the battery drained.  Find the inverter manual.

    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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  • NorCalMikeNorCalMike Member Posts: 52
    The '21 TAB400 has 1200 watt inverter so I bet you are right they popped internal circuit 
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  • Sharon_is_SAMSharon_is_SAM Administrator Posts: 9,732
    “Is it because I need more power than the solar provides so we can't run the inverter stuff?”

    The solar charges your battery to it’s limit.  You don’t run anything directly off of solar.  If you have a larger battery bank, you will have more amp hours to run your 120v appliances.  It is a balancing act.


    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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  • KamateKamate Member Posts: 26
    pthomas745 said:
    You were running the space heater off the inverter?  So, you were running it off the battery?
    A small space heater will use lots of watts......The smallest little space heater I have here at home goes at about 1500 watts.......so, in about a half hour on the battery, it would have used......about 60 amp hours.......or more.
    How big is your battery?  How big (in watts) was the space heater?  If you have solar, find the Victron App and have a look at your battery voltage.
    If your Alde is running, most likely the solar panel is helping the battery power it, since the Alde needs about 11.0 volts to power it.
    Find your inverter manual, or give us the model number.
    Yes, you can use the inverter for all sorts of things...except for large, heat producing devices for long periods of time! 
    So:  how many watts does the space heater use?  How big is your battery, in amp hours?  How long did you run the heater?  Get your Victron app up and running.

    PS: reading this again:  I don't know how big your inverter is.  The space heater could also have been asking more from it than it could provide as the battery drained.  Find the inverter manual.

    Thank you for helping.

    Yes, we were running it off the battery (No hook ups at all, just propane).
    Battery size: 2 AGM 6v 224ah
    Victron readings:  
    Solar: 4w
    Voltage:  16.10v
    current: .2A
    Battery Voltage: 13.31v
                Current: .20A
                State:  Bulk
    Inverter Model Number" MPPT 75/15

    Space heater wattage is 1500 watts.

    I see now that we should not have been running the heater.  Wondering how others "Help" warm up the T@b while Alde gets going (could have sworn that I've read other use a "small" space heater until Alde gets going).

    Did we mess anything up?  It seems that everything is fine (except not able to plug in).  Will be receiving 30 amp  extension cord so we can connect to outside home socket (I'm assuming we'll just be able to pull 15 amps since we have to use dog bone to connect to socket.
    AJ & K
    Virginia
    2021 T@b 400 BD (N@lu 'Ima Ola)
    2013 Toyota Tundra Ext. Cab V8 5.67L 4x4
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  • 4ncar4ncar Member Posts: 1,072
    @Kamate:  I get that we want it all, but we sometimes have to work within the realm of what we actually have.  For me...? I just layer up while the Alde kicks in. I have a 320, so yes, smaller, but it takes about 30 minutes to start bringing the trailer up to temp...have fun with the new toy!;)
    TV- '16 Chevy Colorado LT Crew Cab-DuraMax
    2018 320S Outback
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  • DougHDougH Member Posts: 1,110
    @Kamate I've overloaded an inverter once, and it never quite came back and had to be replaced.  Fingers crossed yours stays okay.  For quickly warming up the T@B, you can crack a side window and just run a burner on the stove for a few minutes.  The Mr. Heater Little Buddy catalytic heater can also be used, again with a side window cracked for extra ventilation safety.
    2021 Jeep Gladiator, 2021 tiny toy hauler, Austin TX
    Former steward of a 2017 T@B S Max

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  • KamateKamate Member Posts: 26
    DougH said:
    @Kamate I've overloaded an inverter once, and it never quite came back and had to be replaced.  Fingers crossed yours stays okay.  For quickly warming up the T@B, you can crack a side window and just run a burner on the stove for a few minutes.  The Mr. Heater Little Buddy catalytic heater can also be used, again with a side window cracked for extra ventilation safety.
    @DougH,  Thank you for the tip on Little Buddy and the burner!!! quick question, how can I tell if my inverter is messed up and needs replacement already? I'm assuming that if I'm plugged in (15 amp at home via dog bone or 30 amp at a site) and all my sockets work I'm back in the good, is that a good assumption? 
    AJ & K
    Virginia
    2021 T@b 400 BD (N@lu 'Ima Ola)
    2013 Toyota Tundra Ext. Cab V8 5.67L 4x4
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  • rhynorhyno Member Posts: 393
    You should run a portable electric heater only if you're on shore power. If you're on battery only, you could run the stove to assist and heat up some water for tea or coffee while you wait for the Alde to catch up. 
    2021 T@B 400 BD, 2021 Lexus GX 460, Kansas City MO
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  • falcon1970falcon1970 Member Posts: 758
    @Kamate
    The inverter runs off the battery.  It converts 12v dc to 120v ac.  Get your battery fully charged and then see what you get from the inverter.  I wouldn't think depleting the battery would harm the inverter.  Depending on your battery, fully depleting it may have damaged the battery.  The good news is that the battery won't be destroyed--you will just get less life out of it.
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  • DougHDougH Member Posts: 1,110
    @Kamate I don't know for the 2021 400 BD if all electrical sockets are powered by the inverter or just two or three specific ones.  But to test the inverter you could just disconnect the shore power cable completely (always turn off the Alde completely before doing this), turn on the battery and the inverter, then try some <500W appliances like a small fan or food grinder.
    2021 Jeep Gladiator, 2021 tiny toy hauler, Austin TX
    Former steward of a 2017 T@B S Max

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  • pthomas745pthomas745 Moderator Posts: 3,942
    The voltage on your Victron (13.3) and the "Bulk" note indicates your solar is trying to pump a lot of amps back into your battery.  Your battery setup would allow you to use about 110 amp hours (50 percent of your 220 amp hours of your battery.)  At 1500 watts, the space heater would use quite a lot of battery power.   (1500 watts divided by 12 volts would equal 125 amps in an hour).  You can do that sort of power consumption....but for very controlled short periods of time.  But...should you?  I've done 700 watt things for about two or three minutes......but I'm on it like a hawk.
    Wait til the sun goes down and you are unplugged from shore power.  Turn the battery switch off, and wait a little while, and then see what the Victron says the charge on your battery is.  A "rested" battery will give you a more accurate reading of the state of charge.
    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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  • KamateKamate Member Posts: 26
    pthomas745 said:
    The voltage on your Victron (13.3) and the "Bulk" note indicates your solar is trying to pump a lot of amps back into your battery.  Your battery setup would allow you to use about 110 amp hours (50 percent of your 220 amp hours of your battery.)  At 1500 watts, the space heater would use quite a lot of battery power.   (1500 watts divided by 12 volts would equal 125 amps in an hour).  You can do that sort of power consumption....but for very controlled short periods of time.  But...should you?  I've done 700 watt things for about two or three minutes......but I'm on it like a hawk.
    Wait til the sun goes down and you are unplugged from shore power.  Turn the battery switch off, and wait a little while, and then see what the Victron says the charge on your battery is.  A "rested" battery will give you a more accurate reading of the state of charge.
    Rad! thanks for the guidance. How do I "Turn off the battery"? is that the switch on the back right side of the T@b in the storage space?
    AJ & K
    Virginia
    2021 T@b 400 BD (N@lu 'Ima Ola)
    2013 Toyota Tundra Ext. Cab V8 5.67L 4x4
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  • berggerbergger Moderator Posts: 1,078
    DougH said:
    @Kamate I don't know for the 2021 400 BD if all electrical sockets are powered by the inverter or just two or three specific ones.  But to test the inverter you could just disconnect the shore power cable completely (always turn off the Alde completely before doing this), turn on the battery and the inverter, then try some <500W appliances like a small fan or food grinder.
    The 2021 400 has one outlet powered by the inverter.  It's the one in the bedroom cubby hole. Test something in that one as suggested by DougH.
    2021 T@b 400 BD  "Vixen Gail" 
    2018 Nissan Titan Pro 4X "Big Bird"
    Leadville Colorado
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  • pthomas745pthomas745 Moderator Posts: 3,942
    Not exactly sure where the switch will be in the 400, but it will be near the battery.  Looks like this:

    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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  • DougHDougH Member Posts: 1,110
    And if the battery appears upright as in the picture above, that is Battery ON, versus if it appears to be on its side, that is Battery OFF or disconnected from the camper DC network.
    2021 Jeep Gladiator, 2021 tiny toy hauler, Austin TX
    Former steward of a 2017 T@B S Max

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  • berggerbergger Moderator Posts: 1,078
    pthomas745 said:
    Not exactly sure where the switch will be in the 400, but it will be near the battery.  Looks like this:

    On your trailer this battery disconnect switch will be in the outside storage compartment on the door side. 
    2021 T@b 400 BD  "Vixen Gail" 
    2018 Nissan Titan Pro 4X "Big Bird"
    Leadville Colorado
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  • pthomas745pthomas745 Moderator Posts: 3,942
    @bergger Can you send us up a photo of where it is on yours when you have a chance?

    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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  • Denny16Denny16 Member Posts: 5,431
    edited March 2021
    On the 2020/2021 TaB400, the battery disconnect switch and breaker are in the under bunk outside (passenger side) storage compartment, on the back wall.  Have a look around the compartment and you should be able to spot it.  On older models of the 400 it was up on the right side of the door, as shown above.
    Cheers
    2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock,  Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
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  • berggerbergger Moderator Posts: 1,078
    Sorry my trailer is in storage and I won't be getting to it for a while so I can't get any pictures.  But yes as I mentioned and as Denny16 did the battery disconnect switch is inside the external luggage compartment.  Just to the right when you open the door.  The breaker is also in there against the back wall of the compartment.  And again on the 2021 400 the only outlet powered by the inverter is the one in the bedside cubby.  Hopefully the 3 feet of snow in my yard will melt in the next two months so I can get the trailer up here and onto a new parking pad.  
    2021 T@b 400 BD  "Vixen Gail" 
    2018 Nissan Titan Pro 4X "Big Bird"
    Leadville Colorado
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