Tongue Weight Major Concerns?

DukeHewett
DukeHewett Member Posts: 44
in Trailer & Towing
In researching recommended tongue weights, I'm finding the recommendations within the margins of 10% to 20% of the trailer weight.  Those recommendations seem to be based upon the "tow ability", or tracking.   How much concern should there be in over-stressing the trailers "A" frame if one overloads the tongue weight.   Have the few cracked frames we've seen on some T@B's perhaps been the result of overloading the tongue, especially on bumpy roads where the load can increase substantially?   Has anyone loaded the tongue weight to 25% or so and found bad tracking or stress cracks on the frame? 
· Share on FacebookShare on Twitter Share on Google+

Comments

  • Denny16
    Denny16 Member Posts: 5,431
    edited May 2022
    A an increased tongue weight (Edit up to around 20/25% of total weight on a TaB) will not decrease stability.  Depending on the trailer design you van go to 30% of total trailer weight on the tongue.  As for frame stress, the trailer needs to be designed for the heavier loads.  Not sure I would want to push a TaB tongue weight past 20% on a 320, due to its two part frame design with the joint in the front.
    Cheers 
    2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock,  Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter Share on Google+
  • FishDoctor
    FishDoctor Member Posts: 79
    edited April 2022
    I do not purport to be an expert, but based on my reading I think the bigger concern with tongue weight is if the percentage of total trailer weight gets too low (<10%). That is more likely to result in major sway oscillations and loss of tracking control because the trailer is excessively back-heavy. Higher percentages of tongue weight are probably more of a concern in terms of the capabilities of the tow vehicle and hitch to handle the stresses. As long as the tongue weight falls under the rated maximum specs for the vehicle and hitch (with a margin of error allowed for safety), it probably won't make the tracking of the trailer get wacky. At least that is my understanding.

    I don't know about the potential for stress cracks on the trailer frame.
    Downers Grove, IL
    2017 T@B S Max, Blue and Silver -- "The Blueb@rry"

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter Share on Google+
  • Grumpy_G
    Grumpy_G Member Posts: 711
    Basic physics apply so it also depends on where weight is added. If you're thinking of mounting something to the tongue in front of the storage tub then most of the weight is carried by the tow vehicle. If the weight is added in the tub or besides it the tow vehicle carries less of the weight and more of it goes onto the axle which increases stress in the potential crack area. 

    What are you trying to do ? 
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter Share on Google+
  • Viajero
    Viajero Member Posts: 123
    edited April 2022
    Denny16 said:
    A an increased tongue weight will not decrease stability, but the opposite.  Depending on the trailer design you van go to 30% of total trailer weight on the tongue.  As for frame stress, the trailer needs to be designed for the heavier loads.  Not sure I would want to push a TaB tongue weight, due to its two part frame design with the joint in the front.
    Cheers 
    Totally disagree. This video is a good primer for towing characteristics and loading. Too heavy of a tounge is just as bad as too light of a tongue. 

    For what it’s worth European engineers are taught to design trailers with hitch weights of 4 to 9 percent. 
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter Share on Google+
  • DukeHewett
    DukeHewett Member Posts: 44
    Grumpy_G said:
    Basic physics apply so it also depends on where weight is added. If you're thinking of mounting something to the tongue in front of the storage tub then most of the weight is carried by the tow vehicle. If the weight is added in the tub or besides it the tow vehicle carries less of the weight and more of it goes onto the axle which increases stress in the potential crack area. 

    What are you trying to do ? 
    Thanks Grumpy G!
    I hadn't considered where the weight is added  between the axle and the ball hitch is a major factor.  I have less concern now about loading the Jack-It bike rack with bikes since the load will be significantly forward of the tub, loaded at the jack-handle location, just short of the coupler.  Therefor the tow vehicle (Toyota Tacoma 4WD) will assume a good portion of the load.  
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter Share on Google+
  • Denny16
    Denny16 Member Posts: 5,431
    The video example shifted 2/3rds of the trailer weight to the front tongue area, which I agree is unstable also.  You can have too much weight.  I mentioned (qualified) my original comment that adding only up to 30% of the total trailer weight forward on the tongue weight would be as stable as 15% of the load which is ideal for a travel trailer.  You need a minimum of 10%, but the max is around 25/30% depending on the trailer design.  Boat trailers are typically loaded with 30% of the load on the tongue.  
    Cheers 
    2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock,  Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter Share on Google+
  • ChanW
    ChanW Member Posts: 3,165
    Thanks for that video @Viajero. I learned a few things from it.

    I hadn't expected that spreading the load front and rear would be a problem. I'll adjust my packing strategy, I think.
    Chan  -  near Buffalo NY
    2014 S Maxx
    2011 Tacoma 4cyl ... edit: 2022 Tacoma 6cyl - oh yeah! 

     A_Little_T@b'll_Do_Ya
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter Share on Google+
  • pthomas745
    pthomas745 Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,527
    edited May 2022
    The video with the European trailers/vehicles are not applicable in any way for vehicles in the USA. Everything about European towing and safety design standards is completely different from the US safety and design standards.  Cars are different, tow hitches are different, road speeds are different, etc. So, take that video with a big grain of European salt.
    Edit: the video is from Australia, and concerns Australian standards, not European!

    Every once in a while someone shows up in various forums towing a Tab with a much too small vehicle, and when confronted, the claim is "They tow with it in Europe, so why not?"
    Here are the threads:

    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter Share on Google+
  • Viajero
    Viajero Member Posts: 123
    edited May 2022
    pthomas745 said:
    The video with the European trailers/vehicles are not applicable in any way for vehicles in the USA. Everything about European towing and safety design standards is completely different from the US safety and design standards.  Cars are different, tow hitches are different, road speeds are different, etc. So, take that video with a big grain of European salt.
    Every once in a while someone shows up in various forums towing a Tab with a much too small vehicle, and when confronted, the claim is "They tow with it in Europe, so why not?"
    Here are the threads:

    I’ll respectfully disagree. The physics doesn’t change. Engineering is a little different as they shoot for hitch weights of 4 to 9 percent. 

    Many people towing t@bs tow with SUV’s and many are similar in size to European SUV’s. 

    I think the videos suggestions of cargo loading are valid and good knowledge for any T@B owner. One of the worst things I see on many trailers I see now are those big racks on the back of the trailers. Hundreds of pounds on the end of a trailer swinging around. What could go wrong. 

    Jmho 
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter Share on Google+
  • Denny16
    Denny16 Member Posts: 5,431
    edited May 2022
    The video posted above was from Australia, and they use the same towing standards that is used in North America, so the basic info does apply here.  Australia hitches on the average are also more robust built, as a lot of RV towing is on dirt type roads, especially in the outback, where there are few paved roads.  

    European standards are very different than North America and Australia, as towing speed are much slower, and roads are narrower on the average. 
    Cheers 
    2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock,  Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter Share on Google+
  • AnOldUR
    AnOldUR Member Posts: 1,726
    Viajero said:
    One of the worst things I see on many trailers I see now are those big racks on the back of the trailers. Hundreds of pounds on the end of a trailer swinging around. What could go wrong. 
    That would be me.  :(



    My weak defense would be that my tongue weight is within the recommended 10-15% range. 
    Stockton, New Jersey
    2020 nuCamp T@B 320S * Jeep Wrangler
    60,865 camping miles through the end of 2025

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter Share on Google+
  • pthomas745
    pthomas745 Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,527
    I would like to apologize to all the Australians in the group for confusing the video with a European video.  Thanks for straightening me out!
    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter Share on Google+
  • Denny16
    Denny16 Member Posts: 5,431
    edited May 2022
    No worries mate, it’s all good….  And that video did show quite well the effects of having to little or too much weight on the tongue.
    cheers
    2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock,  Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter Share on Google+
  • Viajero
    Viajero Member Posts: 123
    AnOldUR said:
    Viajero said:
    One of the worst things I see on many trailers I see now are those big racks on the back of the trailers. Hundreds of pounds on the end of a trailer swinging around. What could go wrong. 
    That would be me.  :(



    My weak defense would be that my tongue weight is within the recommended 10-15% range. 
    Actually I don’t think that’s as bad as those decks that are hanging off the back of new trailers. They are actually a factory option. At least your is not that far behind the axle. 

    Jmho. 
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter Share on Google+

Categories