SERIOUSLY??? Another Broken Grey Tank Drain???

Oinfront · September 2022

So the last trip I was on, I was washing dishes in the kitchen sink and started hearing a leak. It was from outside right at the tire behind the bathroom. At first I thought it was a hole on the grey tank since it was outside of the camper. After about an hour of trying to figure it out, I came to the conclusion that it must be from where the kitchen sink drains into the grey tank.

Ive had an issue similar to this before and it was where the shower drain dumps into the grey tank. The attachment to the grey tank had broken and not all the water was getting into the tank. The water that wasn't getting in was running down on top of the grey tank to the lowest part of the camper, which was at that wheel behind the bathroom. I made a post about the repair here:

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/14507/solved-and-fixed-please-help-plumbing-broke-on-shower-drain/p1

So surely this couldn't have happened AGAIN with the kitchen sink, could it???

Yup...

The exact same issue but a much longer and harder process to repair...

Oinfront · September 2022

Taking apart the cabinet to access the plumbing was tedious.

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Oinfront · September 2022

I had to cut the pipe into two pieces due to there was no way to remove the top shelf without messing with the Alde pipe. Not sure why they made it so it cant be removed.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021717/uploads/editor/18/6vkml1ek1o2l.jpg

Then when buying all the ABS pipe, I decided to use a rubber coupler to attach the 2 longer pieces together in the back. 1. Because the only way to fit it was to have 2 pieces and 2. I figured the rubber coupler would allow the pipe to move during stress.

I can believe that is the only reason that these pieces are snapping. They have to be under a lot of stress during towing I guess.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021717/uploads/editor/ja/cc6d7ktppf2t.jpg

So Anyway I got the job done. Took a whole day. I know my camper a lot more intimately now. There were a few hiccups along the way getting the pipe all together, but hopefully this will help anyone that may experience the same thing.

Craziness lol

Grumpy_G · September 2022

Nice job ! Obviously if you're handy you can fix design flaws but if somebody has to rely on the dealer....

manyman297 · September 2022

Nice work! I wonder if you have some movement of your gray tank independent of the plumbing and everything it’s attached to? Have you checked if the tank itself moves at all in its support bracket?

Oinfront · September 2022

@Grumpy_G absolutely, the two plumbing repairs Ive done would have been pretty expensive if I needed to rely on a dealer. Not to mention time involved and missing out on trips planned. I always do my own repairs if possible. I also really like to know my camper inside and out.

@manyman297 Agreed. I haven't taken the bottom layer to expose the grey tank to see, but there has to be movement and that is likely part if not the full cause of the break.

Ill update if I figure that out

Denny16 · September 2022

That would be my thought also, since you had both drains fail, it has to be down to tank movement causing the drain connections to break or come loose. Our 2018 TaB400 has 4,000 miles on it, most of which is down back roads and unpacked tracks, so lots of movement in the trailer, and we have not had any issues with drains coming out or loose.

The original SoCal dealer did take this trailer to Burning Man back in 2018, which did reveal a large gap in the floor around the fresh water tank connections, but going down the desert unpacked tracks, and poorly paved back roads there, nothing else broke or failed. This was quite a shakedown cruise!

Cheers

Oinfront · October 2022

Just wanted to update. I took a look at the grey tank today. I checked all 6 bolts holding the tank to the frame and all 6 were tight & secure.

So now I dont know what to think about it. Ill just need to keep an eye on both the kitchen area and the shower area and keep my fingers crossed I guess. 🤷‍♂️

jimcenname · October 2022

@Oinfront, now that you have the experience, if you had to do it again would you consider cutting the drainpipe section that lays on the floor just before the 90 turn into the tank?

Oinfront · October 2022

@jimcenname, I had thought about that during the install. I had to cut the longer vertical pipe into 2 pieces due to the fact that I couldn't either remove or install 1 long piece because I couldn't remove the shelf. With the shelf there, the pipe is just too long to install or remove. So since I had to cut that pipe in half, I didn't want to have 2 sections with the rubber coupler. Im hoping that the vertical coupler will provide enough movement to prevent any future breaks. If there was a way not to have to cut the vertical pipe, I would have ended up doing what you are suggesting. Thats similar to what I did under the bathroom in my previous repair with this same issue. That Alde pipe really did prevent me from being able to make, what I think would be, a proper repair. I just didnt want to mess around with removing the Alde pipe and dealing with a possible gylcol flush from that. Every other pipe does not have wood completely surrounding it. Not sure why they have just the Alde pipe that way. I even considered cutting the shelf away from the back end of the Alde pipe so that I could remove it. I will definitely update this discussion if I end up having any issues in the future.

manyman297 · October 2022

I wonder if there's some movement on the Y axis (up and down) that might be causing the fittings to crack?

I'm convinced almost every cabinet moves independently at some junctions. My wardrobe cabinet has continually managed to back the screws out from the wall. I think I've finally fixed the issue by using larger screws and some lock-thread tape.

So even if your kitchen lower cab seems secure there might be some movement when hitting bumps that causes it to shift just enough to stress that connection.

Denny16 · October 2022

I have not had any issue with the galley and/or shower drain breaking. Our 2018 TaB has been towed over desert washboard roads, dirt roads, and up and down coastal roads in NorCal, which would test the flexing of the fixtures. No issues so far.

Cheers

NorthernDale · June 2024

Currently doing this very same repair. The broken threads came out nicely with the tool. (thank you!!). I understand the how and why of your vertical pipe cut with the rubber connector/hose clamps. After viewing your shower drain repair, wondering why you did not use the same flex hose for the 90 degree turn to the tank with the sink connection repair? Or maybe 90 degree rubber (see below). Looking to put the flex closer to the tank joint. Thoughts, reaction or ideas? Thanks!!

Maybe something like this

Update:

Went with inline rubber because the 90 degree piece stood too tall after attaching to the threaded insert. Pictures below of the final install. We will see if there is now enough flex to prevent another shearing off of the fitting at the tank.
Not sure if this post is helpful or even if this repair is a good idea. That said, I am so grateful for the TAB community which is always ready to help. Other posts have given me great ideas and helped immensely!!. Now, time to go camping!!

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021717/uploads/editor/qi/twhse25rqi21.jpg

NorthernDale · June 2024

manyman297 I think you are onto something with the up and down movement. When I had the tank inlet exposed, I tried to move the tank. Solid fore and aft. There was however flex up and down.

Oinfront · June 2024

That repair looks great! I did think about having the flex down at the 90 as well but just ultimately ended up with what I did. I think as long as there is some flex somewhere in the line that it should keep a future break. 🤞 Have you had any issues with the drain under the shower? @NorthernDale

NorthernDale · June 2024

Oinfront. Thanks. Could not have done it without your post, suggestions and especially the link to the take out tool. I have not looked under the shower. That will be next.

NorthernDale · June 2024

Oinfront Checked the drain under the shower. All good. The trap is a very flexible rubber material, not rigid at all. The trap provides all kinds of flexibility to the system. It is so flexible I suspect it could handle freezing if I forgot to add antifreeze.

Oinfront · June 2024

Sounds good be aware though, my p trap was also the rubber one but hopefully you won’t have any issues! Enjoy this season!

NorthernDale · June 2024

Oinfront. Interesting. Then I wonder if the elbow is tight against the threw hole? Hopefully I'll be good if the sink snapped but the shower has not. I will. You as well!!

anba · August 16

@NorthernDale @Oinfront

I'm dealing with exactly the same issue under the kitchen sink. I've never ever done any plumbing work but would like to do it myself. So I do have a few questions:

1. What tool are your referring to, to get the broken thread out. Couldn't find it. Is it something like an Internal pipe nipple extractor (ChatGPT told me that). What size did you use?

2. I can see what you used as a connector between the pipe and the white 90, but what size (height) is the 90 and the thread attachment?

Anything else I should be aware of as a plumbing newbie?

Thanks

Oinfront · August 17

@anba the extractor is 1.5 https://www.lowes.com/pd/Superior-Tool-1-5-in-Drain-Removal-Wrench/5013443925?store=625&cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-plb-_-ggl-_-CRP_SHP_LIA_PLB_Online_Mid_Priority(E+Band)-_-5013443925-_-local-_-0-_-0&gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=21218170281&gbraid=0AAAAAD2B2W85pUUFuq80eKM4VulGy25DG&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3b3Ty4eSjwMVVm5HAR1-1g5QEAQYASABEgL8RfD_BwE

And all the plumbing should be at 1.5”

but just take a piece with you when you purchase the pipe top confirm.

Goos luck and let us know how it goes!

anba · August 17

Thanks @Oinfront. One more question.

How did you fix the 90 to the tank adapter? I don’t see a thread. Did you glue it?

Oinfront · August 17

@anba I took a screenshot from @NorthernDale post

I think you’re referring to the circled adapter. You will need to glue it. Use a primer and glue for either pvc or abs piping depending on which you use. The white piping is pvc and the black is abs and then there is a special glue to bond pvc to abs as well. Or you can use the rubber coupler like in the photo.

anba · August 17

Got it. Thanks

subkron · August 18

To "enhance" the repair...
I know the KIB sensors are never correct, but in my case my grey tank ones always seem to be fouled. There is no rinser in the grey tank like the black tank , and there is no way to access the grey tank to stick in a wand to clean it.

But what if....
The elbo used was also a wye:

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021717/uploads/editor/db/k7paeqpeq7jc.jpg

Use the elbo part to replace the section as noted above, but then cut a relief in the cabinet bottom, add a short extension to the vertical wye to extend into the cabinet and add a removable cap. If that could be done I could then run in my flexible rinse and clear out grey tank!

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021717/uploads/editor/v4/e79pxmxy5798.jpg

TresK3 · August 18

@subkron
At a dump station on our last trip, the guy ahead of me had a connector to dump hook up that allowed you to attach a garden hose and (I think) back-flush into your tanks. It looked like a regular Rhino connector, but with a hose attachment. This might help.

anba · August 18

@oinfront Everything's done. Please see my original post and pictures here: https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/19742/2020-tab400-water-dripping-next-to-driver-side-wheel-solved#latest

If I see it correctly you didn't use sealing foam, but @NorthernDale did. Any reason for or against using it?

Oinfront · August 19

@anba looks great! Whenever I get to do work
on the camper myself vs taking it to dealer I think about how much time and money I save. Think about how much a dealer would charge. And now you know your camper so much better. Honestly regarding the foam, I just never thought of doing it. It wasn’t before so I guess I just left it that way. We’ve had no issues with animals or bugs - knock on wood - good job 👍

anba · August 19

Thank you and thanks again for your help.

subkron · August 19

@TresK3
I had one of those, really did not work. Since the grey tank plumbing connects to the dump outlet through a series of bends, any pressure/spray from the hose gets reduced and there is no real cleaning action. You can fill the grey tank with fresh water from that device, but if "stuff" is stuck it remains stuck (at least that is what I found).

TresK3 · August 20

@subkron- I'm not surprised; it didn't look like it was doing much more than cleaning out his drain valve and dump hose, but I wasn't certain.

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SERIOUSLY??? Another Broken Grey Tank Drain???

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