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Backing up with Al-ko surge brakes;12 volt battery required to get the Norcold 3-way fridge to work

Pattie57Pattie57 Member Posts: 39
edited July 2023 in Dutchman and Vintage TaB Archives
Hi, I just purchased a 2004 Dutchman T@B with surge brakes and I read somewhere that there maybe a backup pin that is required. I had a bit of trouble backing it and I'm not sure if it's just me (I'm out of practise) or it needs some sort of pin. The trailer kept veering off to one side no matter how I adjusted my tow vehicle wheels. I have also read that some of these Al-ko surge brakes have mechanisms that will allow backing up without using any kind of pin. Is there a way to tell what type of brakes the trailer may have...backup pin or no backup pin. Two of these long rods came with the camper and I thought that maybe these were for backing up but for the life of me I can't figure out how or what they could be used for. I also got 2 of these little things and don't know what they are for. The fellow I bought the trailer from didn't know much about the set up because it was a consignment deal. I am attaching pics so people can hopefully see what I am talking about. There is also a Norcold 3163 3-way fridge in the trailer and I can't get it to start by propane or by electrical plug-in . I read somewhere that the instillation of a 12 volt battery is required to start and then it can be switched to the other methods...true or false? The trailer did not have a battery in the box. Thank you to anyone that can help me out!
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Comments

  • Grumpy_GGrumpy_G Member Posts: 539
    As for the fridge, it does need 12V to operate on propane or DC (obviously, doh!). I *believe* the early style (push buttons for mode selection) also need it for AC operation. Hooking up to shore power should provide 12V power via the converter which should make all three modes work unless there is something wrong on the power side. 

    Troubleshooting steps: Trailer connected to shore power, do the 120V AC power outlets work ? If not, check breakers in the power distribution. Do 12V interior lights work ? If not, double check breaker for the converter, then DC fuses. 
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  • Pattie57Pattie57 Member Posts: 39
    edited July 2023
    Hi! Yes, all the outlets and lights work fine. I tried to get the fridge to work on just shore power and I thought that should do the trick without a battery in the box. I guess my next step is to buy a battery, thanks!

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  • Grumpy_GGrumpy_G Member Posts: 539
    That should work. Not to offend you, but as you just got the trailer are you familiar with absorption fridges and how they differ from residential fridges ? Absorption fridges take a long time to cool down. 

    Thanks to the power of the Internet I learned the buttons are purely mechanical and don't need 12V power to function. When you switch it to gas, do you hear a "tick, tick, tick, tick, tick" from the relighter ? When you turn it to DC, does the fan in the power distribution box come on ? 
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  • Grumpy_GGrumpy_G Member Posts: 539
    Here's a video on the AL-KO surge brakes, can any of the early Dutchmen T@b owners confirm that's what they have ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwYRgFA2vBc
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  • Pattie57Pattie57 Member Posts: 39
    edited July 2023
    No offence taken...I'm a newby! I have read that they take a long time to cool. I have never heard any ticking from any of the buttons nor has there been any sound coming from the fridge itself and no sound of a fan. But would these sounds be affected by the fact that there is no battery? I've googled and googled until my eyes are ready to fall out and I haven't been able to find conclusive info...maybe looking in the wrong places. The info that came with the trailer isn't helping as far as troubleshooting.
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  • Grumpy_GGrumpy_G Member Posts: 539
    No, it doesn't matter if the 12V supply comes from the converter or a battery. Given that the interior lights work at least part of the 12V system is working. Next step would be to check the DC fuse for the fridge. 
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  • Pattie57Pattie57 Member Posts: 39
    I am assuming that fuse would be on the side of the fridge behind the black panel that holds the fridge in? I have checked all of the other fuses in the control panel here:
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  • rfuss928rfuss928 Member Posts: 1,021
    Grumpy_G said:
    Here's a video on the AL-KO surge brakes, can any of the early Dutchmen T@b owners confirm that's what they have ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwYRgFA2vBc
    That looks like a similar mechanism but much larger diameter than the model used on the DM T@Bs
    The DM surge brakes do not require a pin to back-up.
    From the look of the position of the hand brake handle in the OP's photo, the brakes are in need of adjustment.  There are maintenance and adjustment manuals in the files here.

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  • Pattie57Pattie57 Member Posts: 39
    @rfuss928...I guess then it's just my crappy backing; more practise to follow. Thank you!!!!
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  • Grumpy_GGrumpy_G Member Posts: 539
    Pattie57 said:
    I am assuming that fuse would be on the side of the fridge behind the black panel that holds the fridge in? I have checked all of the other fuses in the control panel here:
    Did you check the fuses with an ohm meter or by measuring voltage on the exposed contacts on the top ? Looking at them is not a sure fire way.
    There are two 12V fuses on top of the fridge but it gets increasingly less likely that both of them are blown at the same time. We might be going down a rathole here with the 12V stuff. 
    Absorption refrigerators actually use heat to generate cooling so if you have it turned on for a while you should be able to feel the piping contraption on the left side (behind the cover) get warm. Try that with AC power mode first and report back. 
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  • Pattie57Pattie57 Member Posts: 39
    No, I didn't use an ohm meter. I will check your suggestion to feel the piping. I did read up on how these fridges work but some it is a bit over my head. I'm sorry to be bugging you with all of these questions and taking you back to kindergarten with all of this but I very much appreciate your suggestions!!! ;)
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  • Pattie57Pattie57 Member Posts: 39
    edited July 2023
    Grumpy_G Good morning! Took cover off, plugged into AC and waited. Nothing on the left side warming up. No connections that I can see are loose or disconnected.


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  • ScottGScottG Administrator Posts: 5,553
    edited July 2023
    @Pattie57, I have the Norcold 3163 fridge in my 2015. The front controls are a little different (I have a knob to select the mode rather than buttons) but I assume they are otherwise the same.
    To access the fuses on the top of the fridge, you have to remove the stove top. I'm not sure how that works with a 2004, but on mine it was just a matter of loosening/removing the screws located in each of the four corners. Here's a pic from Fuses for Newbies showing the location of the fuse block.
    There are two 12V and one 120V glass fuses. The lower-rated 12V fuse controls power to the fridge's "brain"--if that fuse is blown I believe the fridge will not work in any mode. (The other two fuses control power to the 12V and 120V heating elements, respectively, and should not affect operation in other modes.) Since your fridge doesn't seem to work at all, it could be worth checking that fuse if you are sure the 12V blade fuse in the power center is good. That's not to say there couldn't be lots of other issues causing the problem, but at least this would be a relatively simple thing to rule out. Good luck!

    2015 T@B S

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  • Pattie57Pattie57 Member Posts: 39
    edited July 2023
    @ScottGThank you so much for your suggestion and info!!

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  • Pattie57Pattie57 Member Posts: 39
    edited July 2023
    ScottG. I took off the cook top and only found the propane connections and some spilled coffee grounds. ;) So I would imagine that the fuses will be located at the back of the fridge. I think my best bet is to take it to someone who knows what they are doing.
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  • Pattie57Pattie57 Member Posts: 39
    Grumpy_G One thing I did notice when I was trying to get it going with AC is that the little light bars above each mode buttons would only come on when I push/hold that button down. As soon as I let go, the light goes out.

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  • ScottGScottG Administrator Posts: 5,553
    Well that's certainly odd. Apparently there are more differences between the old and new model 3163 fridges that just the selector switches. If the fuses aren't on top, I have no idea where they are located.
    Your second comment does give another clue, however. If the lights on the control panel are coming on at all, that suggests the problem is not  lack of 12V power to the unit. Given the symptoms you describe, I'm wondering if the control board is bad. The back of those big robust buttons usually connect to tiny little contacts on the board, and those contacts can wear out with time and use. It's a common problem with home appliances, too. I'm just guessing here. Hopefully you can find someone better qualified to provide some answers.
    2015 T@B S

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  • Pattie57Pattie57 Member Posts: 39
    ScottG That's what I'm thinking as well...thank you for your help!
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  • Pattie57Pattie57 Member Posts: 39
    edited July 2023
    Grumpy_G , Boy, do I ever feel stupid!!! I didn't realize how hard those buttons have to be pushed in to choose the mode of operation so the fridge appears to be working now; lights are on above the chosen button and when trying with a new battery in and with the propane on, the green light did come on. So gonna wait now to see if the fridge gets cold. Doh! :s

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  • Grumpy_GGrumpy_G Member Posts: 539
    edited July 2023
    The push button switches have no lights, these are little orange "flags" that move into a visible position when the button is pressed. See here for a pic of a switch by itself : https://pdxrvwholesale.com/products/norcold-push-button-switch-module-617945 Note it appears to have a light on but obviously it can't. These are mechanical locking switches so if they don't engage they are either broken or need a little more force. The link above also links to the newer style replacement switch if needed. 

    Good that you heard the ticking sound from the relighter so there is some progress. I don't know of the relighter is supposed to stop after a while but just try to turn the fridge off and then switch it to gas again. If the ticking sound appears every time you turn it on that would be good. 

    The "generally accepted" start procedure for the fridge on gas is to light the stove first to make sure gas is working and bleed any air out of the line that may have gotten there while the tank was disconnected. Then hold in the red button and switch the fridge to gas. The green light on the right should come on but given the age of the unit it might not work anymore. Listen closely for the sound of a gas flame coming on. 
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  • Pattie57Pattie57 Member Posts: 39
    @Grumpy_G, you are right...the little rectangular flags above the buttons, that is what I meant. I can't believe how hard I had to push those buttons to get them to stay on but I guess they are kind of old school compared to things now that take the slightest of touches! Thank you for the link...I may need that down the road. I will play around with everything a bit more tomorrow but for now, I have it on AC to see if it starts to get cold....I know that it takes a while for that. Thanks again for your info! =)
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  • Pattie57Pattie57 Member Posts: 39
    @Grumpy_G Good morning! The fridge is working fine on AC. I left it on overnight and it was chilled this morning. I got the green light to stay on using propane after lighting the stove top; that method is likely one I won't use that much but it is good to know that it is available. Again, I thank you for your time, it's been nice chatting with you!
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  • Grumpy_GGrumpy_G Member Posts: 539
    Glad you got everything working, hope you get to enjoy the T@b on its first trip soon ! 
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  • Pattie57Pattie57 Member Posts: 39
    Thank you! =)
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