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Antifreeze for plumbing winterization

Sharon_is_SAMSharon_is_SAM Administrator Posts: 9,528
in Heating/Plumbing & Winterizing
It’s that time of the year!  Just thought I would bring up the topic.  Owners need to know what kind of antifreeze to use for winterizing the TaB plumbing.  Here is an article from RVTravel.com that sums it up:  https://www.rvtravel.com/not-rv-antifreeze-created-equal/
(Article typo - it should say that propylene glycol lowers the freezing point of water.

In summary, use RV antifreeze with propylene glycol, preferably without any ethanol (dries out rubber seals).  You may also want “virgin” propylene glycol - antifreeze that has not been recycled.  

Some sources of virgin, ethanol free propylene glycol are:  
Walmart house brand Super Tech RV and Marine Antifreeze and Camco’s Easy Going -50 brand

Read the label!  Things are always changing.  Please share other sources.
Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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    VictoriaPVictoriaP Member Posts: 1,494
    Home Depot has one: https://www.homedepot.com/p/PRIME-GUARD-128-fl-oz-PG-Formula-and-Glycerin-Free-50-F-RV-Antifreeze-95006/314176974

    They also have one with a near identical label that has ethanol, so check the label carefully. 
    2019 320s BD Lite, white with blue (“Haven”)
    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6r (unsafe 200lb tongue weight limit until 2020 models)
    2020 Subaru Outback XT
    Pacific NW
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    scott14scott14 Member Posts: 142
    Good information and a good primer to get us thinking about winterizing,  unfortunately.   Thank you.

    Question,  is it acceptable to use RV Antifreeze only without first blowing out the water lines? 
    Thank you!
    Scott / 2022 T@B 320S / 2019 T@B 400 / 2015 Chevrolet Tahoe LTZ / Northern Illinois
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    VictoriaPVictoriaP Member Posts: 1,494
    scott14 said:
    Good information and a good primer to get us thinking about winterizing,  unfortunately.   Thank you.

    Question,  is it acceptable to use RV Antifreeze only without first blowing out the water lines? 
    Thank you!
    Yes. Drain the lines, Alde, and fresh tank. Bypass the Alde, pump in the antifreeze. Open all faucets  and toilet valve until pink antifreeze flows through. Takes about 15 minutes total on my 2019. 
    2019 320s BD Lite, white with blue (“Haven”)
    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6r (unsafe 200lb tongue weight limit until 2020 models)
    2020 Subaru Outback XT
    Pacific NW
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    StepheninDenStepheninDen Member Posts: 29
    What do people think about using vodka to winterize instead of rv antifreeze (no, this isn’t a drinking joke 😂)? I found a video online about it before my first winter and it seemed better to me than having chemicals in my lines and tank. So far it’s worked and saves me from major rinsing come spring. But I’ve only got two T@B winters under my belt, so I might just have gotten lucky. One big caveat is that I live in Denver where it only occasionally gets down below 20 degrees. I drain and blow out my lines. Close the Alde bypass to keep the vodka out of the Alde system. Then pour a couple of gallons of VERY cheap vodka into the freshwater tank and open each of the lines. I do then pour a half gallon of rv antifreeze into the grey and black tanks. Has anyone else tried this?
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    VictoriaPVictoriaP Member Posts: 1,494
    @StepheninDen My 2 issues with it: Alcohol is damaging to the rubber seals in the toilet & pump, and even one bottle of the cheapest vodka is more expensive than a jug of antifreeze, while being less protective when an unexpected severe winter storm hits. Honestly, it takes one tank of bleach water to fully rinse the lines of antifreeze, and you should be doing that to sanitize in the spring anyway, and another tank of water to rinse out the bleach. (I don’t put antifreeze into the fresh tank, no need to on my no-Nautilus-involved 2019 model. I added a direct bypass to my water pump and let the pump siphon it from there. But even if I had to run antifreeze through the fresh tank, I’d do that rather than risk damaging the seals by using alcohol.)
    2019 320s BD Lite, white with blue (“Haven”)
    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6r (unsafe 200lb tongue weight limit until 2020 models)
    2020 Subaru Outback XT
    Pacific NW
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    StepheninDenStepheninDen Member Posts: 29
    Thanks Victoria! I didn’t know about the seals. I’ll try the rv antifreeze this winter (but I’ve still got at least 2 more months before then!!) and see how that is. I recently changed to an rv storage with its own sewer dump so that will make the extra spring flushing easier. Really appreciate how much knowledge and advice there is on this forum!!
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    pthomas745pthomas745 Moderator Posts: 3,701
    People do use vodka, and it has been mentioned many times in various threads.  Mandy Lea has a video about using it in her trailer.  Given the massive confusion about antifreeze (no labels, the "right stuff" is hard to find, etc) at least with vodka you know what you are using.

    I always see the warning about alcohol "destroys rubber seals" and search as hard as I can, I have never found any discussions of: do the seals degrade instantly? Over time? Is a couple of months with an antifreeze mix of a bit of alcohol enough to cause permanent damage?  etc.........



    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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    VictoriaPVictoriaP Member Posts: 1,494
    @pthomas745 I would assume it’s over time. I have a few alcohol based extracts that are in bottles or jars with rubber components; I’ve had to replace those rubber bits before, whereas jars of the same age with the same seals or droppers and no alcohol are still doing fine. My homemade vanilla extract, though, has been in the same rubber gasketed bottle for a good 6 years and I’ve not seen deterioration…could be a different rubber compound, or who knows?

    That said, for me, using the correct product is a no brainer. I loathe doing repairs, especially those I’ve inadvertently caused, and repairs to the toilet and plumbing are on the list of things I never want to deal with. If I can prevent a repair, I’ll at least try to do so. Tracking down the “right stuff” took me about fifteen minutes online the first year, and under five the next two once I knew what to look for. I order online from my local Home Depot, and within two hours it’s in a locker at the front of the store to be picked up the next time I’m over that way. I don’t even have to talk to anyone.
    2019 320s BD Lite, white with blue (“Haven”)
    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6r (unsafe 200lb tongue weight limit until 2020 models)
    2020 Subaru Outback XT
    Pacific NW
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    pthomas745pthomas745 Moderator Posts: 3,701
    @VictoriaP,   thanks!
    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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    Richard_RRichard_R Member Posts: 38
    Getting ready to winterize our 2023 400 for the first time, so I've been scouring the forum for tips and tricks. Just wanted to point out one thing. As noted here, in the 2023 TAB400 manual, and elsewhere in the forum, avoid alcohol-based antifreeze if possible. Also note that the Walmart brand antifreeze that @Sharon_is_SAM suggested (Super Tech RV and Marine Antifreeze) does indeed contain denatured ethanol, which I discovered after I had my wife pick some up. "Things are always changing" as Sharon also said... 
    — Richard R.
    Front Range of Colorado
    2023 TAB 400 Boondock
    2022 GMC Canyon
    2023 F150 Hybrid (PowerBoost drivetrain)
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    marleecampsmarleecamps Member Posts: 139
    I picked this up at Home Depot this past weekend - label on my bottles says alcohol and glycerine free.

    https://www.homedepot.com/p/PRIME-GUARD-128-fl-oz-PG-Formula-and-Glycerin-Free-50-F-RV-Antifreeze-95006/314176974

    There is another cheaper version (nearly identical label) that does contain denatured alcohol.

    --Marlee
    2021 Tab400 Boondock; TV 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee; Minnesota
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    manyman297manyman297 Member Posts: 1,217
    Yeah, if the cost per gallon is like $3-4 then it’s almost always the cheaper alcohol-based antifreeze. I only use the propylene glycol-based stuff that’s twice the money. You only need 2-3 gallons so, to me, the price difference doesn’t matter. Destroying seals will cost much more than that down the road. 
    2021 400 BD
    2020 Tacoma TRD Off-Road 
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    BinghiBinghi Member Posts: 278
    Silly me - I always thought vodka was for drinking…
    2021 400 BD / 2016 VW Touareg / Austin, TX
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    Sharon_is_SAMSharon_is_SAM Administrator Posts: 9,528
    @Richard_R Thanks for the heads up!
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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    Richard_RRichard_R Member Posts: 38
    @marleecamps: Thank you! Our local Home Depot is out of it, but the nearbu Cabellas apparently has some in stock.

    — Richard R.
    Front Range of Colorado
    2023 TAB 400 Boondock
    2022 GMC Canyon
    2023 F150 Hybrid (PowerBoost drivetrain)
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