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2023 T@B 400 battery did not last the night with alde running.

gkreitzburg
gkreitzburg Member Posts: 64
edited April 2024 in Battery/Electrical & Solar
We took our new camper on it's maiden trip over the weekend. The first night was a harvest host stay at a brewery (Brewdog in Columbus - quite good if you are in the area). The battery was fully charged, and the alde system was set to 72 degrees on propane. The system shut down at around 5:30 AM because the battery got too low. Shouldn't the battery be able to handle that system over one night? It did get down to around 37 at night.
2023 T@B 400 Boondock
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Comments

  • rh5555
    rh5555 Member Posts: 536
    Can you tell us what battery configuration you have?  AGMs or Lithium?  If Lithium then how many batteries? 
    Roger and Sue Hill | 2020 T@B400 Boondock (Cryst@bel) | 2022 Land Rover Defender 110 - P400 | San Juan Island, WA
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  • pthomas745
    pthomas745 Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,527
    edited April 2024
    "New" to you?   What size and type battery?  What did you use to determine the battery was "full"?  A multimeter?  The "monitor" in the trailer? The Victron app?
    But, yes, it should last more than "one night", but a lot of the diagnosis here will hinge on: What exactly was the status of the battery? 
    PS:  the battery learning curve is steep!  This sort of thing has happened to many new owners, so you are not alone.
    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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  • RTWCTS
    RTWCTS Member Posts: 197
    @gkreitzburg I don't think the Alde is what drained your 100AH Lithium battery down overnight.
    We keep our frige set to about 5 on the dial and it uses about 35Amps of electricity. If you ran the 1200W inverter much, it probably drained a good deal of the rest of your battery capacity. Combined with lights, fans, etc. is how I imagine you got drained down.
    As @pthomas745 mentioned, almost everyone has that 'bad night' and learns from it. Welcome to the club!
    2023 TAB 400 (former T@B 320 owners)
    Relentlessly Pursuing a Silverado EV
    'Racing the Wind and Chasing the Sun'
    Virginia Beach, VA
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  • gkreitzburg
    gkreitzburg Member Posts: 64
    Thank you all for the feedback. This is a new T@B and has a 100Ah lithium battery. we were not running the inverter at all, and not many lights. The battery was full according to the monitor in the trailer - unless I am missing something, the victron app I have only shows solar input and output draw?
    2023 T@B 400 Boondock
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  • gkreitzburg
    gkreitzburg Member Posts: 64
    also, the fridge was on - not sure what setting?
    2023 T@B 400 Boondock
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  • pthomas745
    pthomas745 Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,527
    The "monitor in the trailer" is set up for a "lead acid" battery.  A lead acid battery is "fully charged" at 12.6 volts, so on almost every voltage of a lithium battery it will read "fully charged".   So..use the Victron.
    The Victron app reads information coming from the solar controller, which is connected directly to the battery.  If the solar controller has been properly set up to charge a lithium (and there is no guarantee that the controller is properly set up until you check) the app will give you a much better idea of your state of charge. 
    On your App, there is the status page that gives you the solar input, and in the battery section, shows you the battery voltage, etc.  In the "Current" section of the app, a positive number means the battery is charging, a negative number means the battery is being discharged.
    There is also a "History" page on the App.  We can review the history and see if the battery is charging properly, etc.
    If you can: show us the Status, History, and Settings pages and we may be able to "reconstruct the incident!" In the settings, we will be looking closely at whether the solar is set up for lithium charging. This is the Victron Explainer graphic that will help you decode what you are seeing.


    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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  • gkreitzburg
    gkreitzburg Member Posts: 64
    @pthomas745 Thank you. I do recall looking at the battery voltage that morning and it was something like 10.6-ish. I am not near the camper right now, so unable to connect and look at the history - and I was unaware that you could click on the graphs, I believe.
    2023 T@B 400 Boondock
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  • pthomas745
    pthomas745 Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,527
    All part of that learning curve.  Get a good look at your solar panel output and battery status, etc.  There are many many threads about solar setups that somehow are not working: cables dropped out, Victrons not set up properly, etc.  The Victron status and history will tell us a lot.
    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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  • Marceline
    Marceline Member Posts: 1,745
    pthomas745 said:

    The Victron app reads information coming from the solar controller, which is connected directly to the battery.  If the solar controller has been properly set up to charge a lithium (and there is no guarantee that the controller is properly set up until you check) the app will give you a much better idea of your state of charge. 
    On your App, there is the status page that gives you the solar input, and in the battery section, shows you the battery voltage, etc.  In the "Current" section of the app, a positive number means the battery is charging, a negative number means the battery is being discharged.


    Shouldn't this model of trailer also have either a SmartShunt or BMV712? 
    San Francisco Bay Area
    2013 CS-S us@gi
    2015 Toyota Tacoma PreRunner Double Cab
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  • RTWCTS
    RTWCTS Member Posts: 197
    Marceline said:
    Shouldn't this model of trailer also have either a SmartShunt or BMV712? 
    From the factory the 100AH version doesn't come with either.
    2023 TAB 400 (former T@B 320 owners)
    Relentlessly Pursuing a Silverado EV
    'Racing the Wind and Chasing the Sun'
    Virginia Beach, VA
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  • pthomas745
    pthomas745 Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,527
    I think it depends on the "Lithium Package" being installed along with the Multiplus.
    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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  • elbolillo
    elbolillo Member Posts: 549
    My opinion is that whether it is the standard 100ah to 400ah install, they both should come with the smart shunt.
    _____________________________________________________
    Ken / 2023 Tab 400 “La Bolita” (31,000+ miles) / 2024 Toyota Sequoia
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  • bergger
    bergger Moderator Posts: 1,077
    All 2024 T@b 400 come with a battery monitor smartshunt, whether they have the standard single lithium or the upgraded 4 battery setup.  It is listed as a standard item on the website and even mentioned as a standard item in NuCamps 2024 T@b 400 walk through video.   
    2021 T@b 400 BD  "Vixen Gail" 
    2018 Nissan Titan Pro 4X "Big Bird"
    Leadville Colorado
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  • gkreitzburg
    gkreitzburg Member Posts: 64
    Smart sunny would show up in the victron app, right?
    2023 T@B 400 Boondock
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  • dsfdogs
    dsfdogs Member Posts: 640
    @gkreitzburg yes, the Shunt would show up in the Victron app, but you don't have one installed. However, you can use the Solar controller voltage reading of the battery to give you an idea of the status of the battery. Just know when the battery switch is turned on and anything is being used in the trailer, like the fridge, the voltage will be lower, than if the battery switch is off and rested. Here is the cheat sheet for lithium voltage:

    13.6V = 100%

    13.4V = 99%

    13.3V = 90%

    13.2V = 70%

    13.1V = 40%

    13.0V = 30%

    12.9V = 20%

    12.8V = 17%

    12.5V = 14%

    12.0V = 9%

    I had a shunt installed but still use this cheat sheet! 


    Debbie in Oregon
    Sold 2023 Tab 400
    Sold 2018 T@B 320S

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  • Marceline
    Marceline Member Posts: 1,745
    gkreitzburg said:
    Smart sunny would show up in the victron app, right?
    Yes it would show up under “Devices List”
    San Francisco Bay Area
    2013 CS-S us@gi
    2015 Toyota Tacoma PreRunner Double Cab
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  • bergger
    bergger Moderator Posts: 1,077
    We added a smartshunt immediately on our 2021 400 and it was well worth it.  I think it is such a valuable piece of equipment.  It really lets you see how much power everything uses.  I think NuCamp realized how valuable they are and therefore made them standard in 2024.
    2021 T@b 400 BD  "Vixen Gail" 
    2018 Nissan Titan Pro 4X "Big Bird"
    Leadville Colorado
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  • markhanks
    markhanks Member Posts: 15
    My 320 CSS' blew a fuse on the Victron charge controller and thus showed no charge.  I was a newly then and learning.  The tow vehicle could not keep up and I drained my AGM battery.  Lesson learned check frequently.  But also the charge controller has it's own blade fuse located on the bottom and difficult to see.  I never found to until I removed the system to replace it.  
    2017 T@G
    2021 T@b CS-S
    2022 T@b 400
    2021 Chevy Colorado
    2021 Toyota Tundra
    CO Rocky Mt's, Coast of ME
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  • KK1L
    KK1L Member Posts: 117
    edited May 2024
    This DC wiring diagram from @MuttonChops is invaluable for reference.



    For what it is worth I have added items to my 2023 which many also consider adding...DC-DC converter, 2nd solar controller for portable panels, smart shunt each outlined in bold red. For the DC-DC note the change to the electric brake power. 

    73 es God Bless de KK1L, Ron <><
    2023 T@B 400 Boondock "Running up a T@B"
    Jericho, VT
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  • JMBurkhart
    JMBurkhart Member Posts: 5
    Dear KK1L, Please provide a link to full size of the PDF that you modified showing:
    "For what it is worth I have added items to my 2023 which many also consider adding...DC-DC converter, 2nd solar controller for portable panels, smart shunt each outlined in bold red. For the DC-DC note the change to the electric brake power. " 
    I an unable to make out the fine print on you improvements.
    Thank you,  John B.
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  • pthomas745
    pthomas745 Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,527
    @JMBurkhart the link below goes to the thread where "MuttonChops" worked out the basic diagram.  There is a .pdf file in that thread.

    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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  • JMBurkhart
    JMBurkhart Member Posts: 5
    @pthomas745, @KK1L - Thanks ptthomas,   I have linked MuttonChops' Original PDF.  It is nice and clear, but KK1L's updated PDF of that drawing is too small in this thread to read the fine details of his upgrades.  I messaged KK1L requesting a link to the full size PDF.  Hopefully, he will respond.  Thanks again...
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  • gkreitzburg
    gkreitzburg Member Posts: 64
    I added another 100ah battery and smart shunt. just messing around in the driveway I see the fridge has a very high (up to 6a) draw until it cools down, then almost nothing maintaining. We are going on our first long trip next week so will be watching usage and longevity.
    2023 T@B 400 Boondock
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  • Horigan
    Horigan Member Posts: 863
    If you can, pre-cool the frig on shore power so you start the trip with a fully charged battery.
    Rich
    2019 T@b 400
    2025 Toyota Highlander 2.4L Turbo
    Bellingham WA
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  • gkreitzburg
    gkreitzburg Member Posts: 64
    after adding the extra battery and having the rig set for two days and messing about, the battery never got below 70% or so. We definitely start every trip with a full charge.
    2023 T@B 400 Boondock
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  • gkreitzburg
    gkreitzburg Member Posts: 64
    two week trip to texas; used the heat on propane several nights. I think the impetus of this thread my own dumb fault. I turned on the propane but did not turn off the electric; while the preferred setting is for electric. So, when my battery died last year, it was probably running on electric and not propane. Did it right this time and the camper was toasty and the battery(s) never fell below 76%.
    2023 T@B 400 Boondock
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  • Sharon_is_SAM
    Sharon_is_SAM Member Posts: 10,061
    The Alde can’t heat using electric unless plugged in to shorepower, so your battery would not be run down in this scenario.  It can heat on LPG while using 12 V (battery) for the control panel and glycol pump when not plugged in to shorepower.  
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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  • gkreitzburg
    gkreitzburg Member Posts: 64
    Unsure why the battery failure last year then.
    2023 T@B 400 Boondock
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  • Sharon_is_SAM
    Sharon_is_SAM Member Posts: 10,061
    I suspect you cooled the frig on battery.  The built in TaB battery gauge probably reflected 13. or so and you thought it was full.  If you had an AGM, that 13 V would have meant a fullish battery, but, a lithium battery will be at 13 v and only be at 30% SOC.
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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  • gkreitzburg
    gkreitzburg Member Posts: 64
    no, battery was full when we left - trailer had been plugged in to the house for a day. Also had the t@b at my son's wedding. it sat in the sun all day with just the fridge running, and the battery died at 11PM just using lights and fan. Maybe the og battery is not good, but since I added another things are working fine?
    2023 T@B 400 Boondock
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