So Frustrated With the Auto-Detect WFCO 8700 series

tombeaux · September 2023

Has anyone swapped the WFCO8735 AD (for auto detect) converter for the Progressive Dynamics 4000 Series Mini RV Converter?? I put the WFCO 8740AD in my 2017 320S and have had nothing but aggravation. AD is supposed to stand for Auto Detect, meaning it is supposed to detect that I have a lithium battery and charge on that basis. Your have to jump through hoops to get it to switch to lithium mode (yes, I've seen the WFCO videos and gone through the process with WFCO support) and then it keeps reverting back to lead acid mode. It should be listed as MD (Might Detect), or RD, for Random Detect or Rarely Detect. The Progressive Dynamics unit has a switch to get to lithium mode. I have communicated with WFCO support and even pulled the unit out and sent it back for a firmware update (gone for nearly a month). It still won't stay in lithium mode. I just want something that works without a hassle.

Yoshi_TAB · September 2023

Hi,

Across many forums, they seem to be quirky and unreliable. As an option, instead of changing out the entire unit again you could use a dedicated lithium battery charger (such as a Victron IP 22) for your battery(s). You could wire it through an off/on switch. Is your lithium inside or out?

tombeaux · September 2023

I'm open to your suggestion OR swapping to the Progressive Dynamics unit OR I hear there is a way to modify the board in the WFCO unit so that it is permanently in lithium mode. My battery is in the front tub of my late 2017 320S. I think I could get the IP-22 mounted in the tub, but would then have to figure a way to plug it in. Not sure all of that wouldn't be more time-consuming than just swapping for the Progressive Dynamics controller for not that much more money.

pthomas745 · September 2023

It continues to surprise me how much effort people put into trying to get the WFCO to work for the extra 15 amp hours the "lithium converters" will add compared to the "non-lithium" converters. Just on an amp hour per dollar cost, it just doesn't seem worth the time and effort. Your solar charger will do the job. If your battery is in the tub, wiring up a dedicated charger (NOCO/Victron, etc) would be as simple as connecting a "dongle" that would be easily accessible in the front tub,

SLJ · September 2023

I started seeing the WFCO horror stories last year so I didn't change out the converter on my 2021 T@B 320 S. Instead I added a Victron smart charger and put the batteries on a switch to turn them off when using shore power. The Victron charges them to 100% and then floats correctly. Cheaper, easier, and a better charger than the WFCO. https://amzn.to/3EkOZ63

MuttonChops · September 2023

tombeaux said:
. . . yes, I've seen the WFCO videos and gone through the process with WFCO support . . .
. . . it keeps reverting back to lead acid mode.
. . . just want something that works without a hassle.

As noted in other comments lots of folks have issues/confusion with the WFCO Auto-Detect System. The video linked below addresses the what/why of the auto-detect switching modes.

It is not a WFCO Sales video - - - - Does have a WFCO Support Tech explaining.

WFCO auto detect battery charger, does it actually work

Video take-away seems to be Yes - - it works but other factors like dual charging sources (solar), trailer cabin DCV loads, charge wire size (voltage drop) are causing huge RV Owner Confusion.

tombeaux · September 2023

@MuttonChops - Thanks for the link. I've watched this video and yes, there is some great information. Still, WFCO is admitting they have created a product that has issues with many RVs. You've got folks needing to rewire or move the batteries closer to the controller, or just giving up and adding a separate charger. The WFCO tech even says several times that if you can't get it to switch or stay in lithium mode, it is okay because it will still charge to 14.4 volts in lead acid mode. That has not been true for me. The best I have gotten is 13.6 volts. I've used my solar suitcase to top it off. Apparently the switch caused them problems with folks frying lead acid batteries. Still, right now, I would take the switch option 10 out of 10 times. I sent the unit back once for the firmware update and that did not change anything. I'm trying heavier gauge wire (testing today with battery cables before I go through the hassle of running heavier wire to the battery).

bjn2 · October 2023

I got a Victron IP65 (15A) charger. It's waterproof and I can plug into either a galley outlet through the front window or an outside outlet. I have the Victron quick connector pre-wired to my Dr. Prepare Powermax battery. It would be nice to not have to fuss with connecting the Victron charger, but I'll probably continue to do that rather than replace the WFCO with the PD switchable converter. And the Victron has the benefit of providing Bluetooth app monitoring.

I again completely discharged my Powermax battery and have given the WFCO AD unit several days to detect the LiFePo power profile. The green diode is still shining bright, so mine's still in never-detect mode.

otr_320 · October 2023

tombeaux said:

. . . WFCO is admitting they have created a product that has issues with many RVs. You've got folks needing to rewire or move the batteries closer to the controller, or just giving up and adding a separate charger. The WFCO tech even says several times that if you can't get it to switch or stay in lithium mode, it is okay because it will still charge to 14.4 volts in lead acid mode. That has not been true for me. The best I have gotten is 13.6 volts. I've used my solar suitcase to top it off. Apparently the switch caused them problems with folks frying lead acid batteries. Still, right now, I would take the switch option 10 out of 10 times. I sent the unit back once for the firmware update and that did not change anything. I'm trying heavier gauge wire (testing today with battery cables before I go through the hassle of running heavier wire to the battery).

I feel your pain. Been there, done that . . . a number of times.

WFCO converters have a history of rarely charging in bulk (14.4 - 14.6v) mode. They tend to stay in 13.6v absorption mode which significantly increases charge times due to reduced charge current. Only a seriously depleted battery or large inrush of discharge current can force some WFCO converters into bulk mode. Even then, it's typically fleeting and temporary.

Several RV's we've purchased in years past had WFCO converters. They all failed the bulk mode test and only produced 1/3 to 1/2 of their rated charge current. These days we typically install Victron or Xantrex inverter/chargers, but back-in-the-day we replaced the WFCO's with Charge Wizard equipped Progressive Dynamic converters. Their charging performance was superior to WFCO in everyway---always producing their rated charge current in bulk mode.

Before we started a number of electrical upgrades on our new '23 320 (back in Aug), we quickly tested the OEM 35a WFCO "auto-detect" converter to see how it would charge a new Group 24 lead-cell battery the dealer installed---more out of curiosity than anything else. As expected, the WFCO stayed in 13.6v absorption mode and could only output a measly 8a of charge current even though the battery was seriously discharged. Our 320's excessively long run of OEM 10 gauge wire that meandered from the tub battery, to the battery disconnect switch, then back across the trailer to the WFCO converter, compounded the problem with a ton of voltage drop.

Disappointing performance to say the least. It is what it is.

tombeaux · October 2023

I gave up on the WFCO auto-detect and installed a Victron IP22. I mounted it on the divider between the controller and Alde (under the driver-side bench) in my 2017 320S. Ran 6AWG wire through the floor and then inside the frame rails up to the battery. The power cord runs under the divider and plugs in at the Alde socket. I manually set it on lithium and can monitor it on the Victron app via Bluetooth, just like the Victron shunt. It charged beautifully. We just took it on a 3-week jaunt and it works like a champ. It’s a simple installation and I would recommend it 10 out of 10 times over swapping to a WFCO auto detect controller. My pain is over.😁

otr_320 · October 2023

tombeaux said:

I gave up on the WFCO auto-detect and installed a Victron IP22. I mounted it on the divider between the controller and Alde (under the driver-side bench) in my 2017 320S. Ran 6AWG wire through the floor and then inside the frame rails up to the battery. The power cord runs under the divider and plugs in at the Alde socket. I manually set it on lithium and can monitor it on the Victron app via Bluetooth, just like the Victron shunt. It charged beautifully. We just took it on a 3-week jaunt and it works like a champ. It’s a simple installation and I would recommend it 10 out of 10 times over swapping to a WFCO auto detect controller. My pain is over.😁

Awesome! Glad you passed on the WFCO and ended all that painful drama--lol! Good idea running the 6 awg vs. using the undersized OEM 10 awg. That'll definitely improve the performance of your IP22. The bluetooth capability is icing on the cake. Enjoy!!

ReenieG · January 26

MuttonChops said:

tombeaux said:
. . . yes, I've seen the WFCO videos and gone through the process with WFCO support . . .
. . . it keeps reverting back to lead acid mode.
. . . just want something that works without a hassle.
As noted in other comments lots of folks have issues/confusion with the WFCO Auto-Detect System. The video linked below addresses the what/why of the auto-detect switching modes.

It is not a WFCO Sales video - - - - Does have a WFCO Support Tech explaining.

WFCO auto detect battery charger, does it actually work

Video take-away seems to be Yes - - it works but other factors like dual charging sources (solar), trailer cabin DCV loads, charge wire size (voltage drop) are causing huge RV Owner Confusion.

Watching the video link explained (if I understood correctly) that it's not crucial to get a lithium battery charged 100% so in that case, it seems IMO, that my existing WFCO 8735P controller would be adequate with a lithium battery if I occasionally top it off with a direct connect to my portable solar panel or on a trickle charger at home.

I did order just the updated WFCO mba (mother board assembly) from Amazon since I was debating between leaving the current controller with my new 100ah lithium battery (which I love and would add another one, if I can reconfigure my tub somehow) or replacing the WFCO with the AD (auto detect) so once I install it and do my new MPPT upgrade along with my added solar panel, I'll add my results. I'm just curious now if the AD system might work better now since I've seen alot of comments and mixed reviews all over the place where some people were sent a jumper to add to their new updated AD units. We'll see.

ReenieG · January 26

This looks and sounds like a permanent fix. It was in the reviews on the WFCO AD MBA I purchased.

In case you have trouble reading it, the buyer states he added his own "jumper" (1k ohm resistor) to permanently keep the controller in lithium mode.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021717/uploads/editor/mz/j8b33v41aezb.jpg

Gomers2 · January 28

Came here to say this. I jumped thru all the hoops to get my controller to Auto detect with no success. But the 1k ohm resistor between the first two jumpers acts as a switch to force the WFCO AD into Lithium mode (mode led turns blue) and solves the problem. If you don't want to solder on the board, and you have the newer version of the board with headers on the right side, you can get a jumper that connects the first two pins and install it on the right side of the board (opposite the resistor shown in the photo). Just put the resistor in line between pin 1 and pin 2.

ReenieG · January 28

@Gomers2 thanks for the info. I read reviews where people got that jumper you mention.

pthomas745 · January 28

The jumper and install is discussed at length in this thread from last year. With the availability of a solar controller to charge the lithiums properly, or using a stand alone lithium charger to do it, the hoops you need to jump to get to the WFCO to properly "detect" seems hardly worth it.

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/18234/wfco-8955-ad-jumper/p1

SLJ · January 28

The new camper I'm ordering has the WFCO auto detect converter. I will be installing another Victron Smart Charger in this one and not using the WFCO for battery charging. The WFCO's are garbage. They've had years to correct their design flaw. It's bull crap that you have to do modifications to get them to work properly.

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So Frustrated With the Auto-Detect WFCO 8700 series

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