2015 T@B 320 Outback no electrical heat - Solved

Parlando · August 13

I don't plug in often, but recently as it was our only choice we plugged in at a campground. The electrical heat did not work. All other electrical items did; lights and pump okay. I noticed no heat coming on after quite awhile. I switched to propane and heat immediately worked. I check all fuses, including the two hidden glass fuses in the Alde itself. I know how to use the heater and hot water thermostat and had it on the appropriate settings. Any ideas?

Thanks - Parlando

Tabaz · August 13

You may want to check the contacts in the thermostat. I'm guessing you have the old analog thermostat with the physical knobs and dials. If the contacts are dirty, it may be the cause of the problem (a friend had the same issue with the same model year). Also check that the 110V plug is secure in the outlet next to the Alde unit. They have a tendency to slip out over time.

Parlando · August 13

Will do. Thank you and will let you know how it goes.

MuttonChops · August 13

Tabaz said:
. . . check that the 110V plug is secure in the outlet next to the Alde unit.
They have a tendency to slip out over time.

Since @Parlando seldom camps with 120VAC service my money is also on the
Alde Power Cord
having slipped out of the outlet.

Parlando · August 13

I checked the 110v plug next to the Alde and Is was secure. I’ll take a breather before I remove the four screws holding the analog thermostat.

Parlando · August 13

I've removed the four screws that hold in the old analog thermostat with the physical knobs and dials. I also removed a couple of wire hangers to give me a very small amount of slack so that I can get some access to the thermostat. A couple of questions. How do I remove the back cover of the thermostat? Pry it off with a flat screwdriver? And then how do I check the contacts in the thermostat? That's a new one for me and any pointers would be appreciated.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021717/uploads/editor/2t/ee9ufbc3tix9.jpg

Tabaz · August 14

That back cover snaps off (pics below). Before doing anything, remove the blade fuse in the converter that controls the Alde. This is important because you'll be using alcohol to clean the contacts. Here is the process:
Remove the round temperature knob. Then remove the black plastic spindle behind the knob. Using a flat screwdriver, gently pry off the back cover (you can see from the photos that the cover snaps onto the green circuit board itself at three points). Start at the rear where the wires come out of the cover. There are three very small Phillips head screws holding the circuit board to the front cover. Gently remove them (all these plastic parts are very brittle after all these years). You now have visual and physical access to the slide controls (no need to remove anything else). Simply clean the contact points using rubbing alcohol and a cotton swab. Do this several times to insure the contacts (top and bottom) are clean. The photos below are not in any particular order, but should give you an overall view of what you'll be dealing with. Hope this helps.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021717/uploads/editor/a2/jhus8g99k5bq.png

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021717/uploads/editor/7e/fcpo2alpo9gh.png

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021717/uploads/editor/rm/ghdt02bqjktc.png

Parlando · August 14

Thank you Tabaz. I’m assuming that you removed the connecting wires from the converter? I’m hoping to leave them connected if I can. Your description and photos are great and an amazing help. Thank you.

Tabaz · August 14

No - just the blade fuse for the Alde. If you want to be really safe, pull the 30 Amp blade fuse from the inline fuse holder near the battery in the propane tub. This way there will be zero power to the entire trailer. If this doesn't solve your original problem, someone once posted an electrical schematic of the T@B wiring. This may show you which wires feed the running light function. I have a hard copy and will post it here. BTW, do a search for "Fuses for Newbies" for a detailed description of all the fuses in your trailer and their locations.

Tabaz · August 14

Fuses for Newbies:
https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/6381/fuse-finder#latest

Tabaz · August 14

Electrical Schematic:
https://us.v-cdn.net/5021717/uploads/editor/q4/kuwppa7w77ab.pdf

Tabaz · August 14

Just noticed I responded to your "running light" post here. DOH!

Bayliss · August 14

@Parlando, although you confirmed that your power cord is secured in the outlet, did you also independently confirm power to that outlet? Or check the circuit breaker to confirm it did not trip?

I ask, because propane for the Alde will work on 12V, as will the lights, fans, and water pump. Having 12V power to control those items while troubleshooting a 110/120V AC electrical issue can trick you into thinking you have AC power. It has for me in the past, which is why I disconnect the battery from the system when doing AC troubleshooting.

Parlando · August 14

Thank you again. I’m off to work in our neighborhood garden but I’ll read over this later today. I really appreciate all your advice!

Tabaz · August 14

Bayless brings up an important point. the interior and outside 110V outlets on the T@B are "downstream" from the GFI outlet located on the driver's side seat pedestal. If it trips, these outlets will not work. There are two VERY tiny buttons in the center of that outlet, one is "Test" and the other "Reset." Simply push the reset button to reactivate all the outlets. To confirm that outlet is working, there is an even smaller green light on the bottom right hand corner of the outlet (impossible to see for anyone over 60 years of age).

Tabaz · August 15

After reviewing the excellent schematic referenced above, it appears the 110V outlets to the Alde and A/C unit are on separate circuits tied directly to circuit breakers within the convector box. They are not "downstream" from the GFI outlet on the pedestal. I've owned my T@B for nine years and amazed how little I know about it! This is such a great forum.

ScottG · August 15

Yep. And the three-way fridge is also on a non-GFI circuit. If memory serves, the GFI protects the accessible outlets, under the bench, above the sink, and outside.

This is an example of good design on nuCamp's part--it's not always the case. A friend once consulted with me because the 3-way fridge in his (other brand) camper wasn't working. The problem traced back to a tripped GFI under the dinette.

Parlando · September 13

Thank you all for your tips. I've just finished troubleshooting my rear trailer lights, confirming that I don't have a fault. I ordered two new lamps from NuCamp. So I'm now ready to check up the GFI, confirm power to the outlet, and then do surgery on the analog thermostat if necessary. Again, many thanks and I'll let you know what I find.

Parlando · September 14

@MuttonChops @Tabaz Referring to my 2015 320 Boondock T@B. Last night I decided to do a second check and confirm that I am not getting heat from the Alde while on electrical. I am plugged in to my garage 120v. Fuses look good and circuit breakers are in ON position. I've double checked that my power cord plug is seated and that I have power there. I have the old style termostat. I turned the electrical on. up to one click, I left the propane off, I turned the heat and hot water on (not the hot water only setting) and finally turned the thermostat all the way up. I could hear the Alde (not the converter) turn on and I could hear the glycol tinkle. I left it on for 1.5 hours. Upon going into the Tab at that point I couldn't feel any heat from the Alde. I checked the output from the back radiator area to be sure. I did not touch the radiator itself. I know it takes awhile to heat from electrical, but I think there should be some heat by then. The outside temperature was 72 degrees. This morning I double checked the valve positions to make sure that they were in the right alignment. I think they are correct. The hot water valve and cold water valve are open. (In line with the water lines.) The Yellow bypass valve is closed (down, not up). Both hot and cold water valves are closed. The confusing thing is that I hear the Alde and I can hear the glycol tinkle. I appreciate Tabaz's instructions for how to clean the thermostat's contacts, but I'm leaving that for a last ditch effort as it seems the most invasive. If the contacts were not working, would the Alde turn on and would I hear the glycol tinkle? Thanks- Parlando

MuttonChops · September 14

My 2¢ . . .

Since the Alde boiler runs on propane & the circulation pump actives to heat the cabin but neither happens on 120VAC it sounds like the Analog Control Panel thermostat function if fine. There is an issue with the 120VAC.

The Adle is a 12VDC unit. The only thing the 120VAC does is power the two electric resistive heat coils.

So possible causes are:

1) No 120VAC, check the Alde compartment output . . . with a meter of 120V fan/light/etc

2) Analog Panel is not sending the 'turn-on' signal . . . not sure how to troubleshoot at this time.

3) The Alde Control PCB 120VAC Relay(s) have failed.
Might be possible to hear or feel the relays activate (two person job).
If they, all three, activate then Analog Panel and relays are good.

4) Heat level Step 1 electrical coil has failed.
Might be possible to try increasing Analog Panel to Heat level Step 2.
If only coil 1 is bad, coil 2 would begin heating and not trip your house shore power 15/20A circuit.

You can also use an Ohm meter to check the electrical coil resistance.
One owner has reported the coils are in the 14 - 16 Ohms range (no idea if that is accurate)

See This Alde Thread

Note: These two diagrams from the same source document have different
Wire Color to Terminal mapping.

Tabaz · September 14

Just throwing out a suggestion here . . . maybe run an extension cord from your house to the Alde plug? This would bypass the trailer's 110V circuit. Full disclosure, I'm not an electrician.

Parlando · September 15

Hmm, Most of this is over my head, but I appreciate you taking the time to send it to me. @MuttonChops , I noticed this failure when camping where we had 30Amp supplied, and I was Step level 2 on my analog thermostat. I'm wondering if the second coil should have kicked in? We had no heat after a full hour. I can still try suggestion #4.

Might be possible to try increasing Analog Panel to Heat level Step 2.Maybe I'll have an electrician take a look. I might try Tabaz's suggestion first. Good thing is I know the propane still gives us good heat, and I can always use that.

@BrianZ. I'm having problems with my Alde heater which doesn't heat up via electrical power. It sounds like you were able to measure that your Alde was operating in the correct voltage range. But what would you have done if it wasn't? It sounds like an expensive repair. And I'm not electrically trained. I do have propane heat, which is faster and works so far. Thanks.

Grumpy_G · September 15

Tabaz said:

Just throwing out a suggestion here . . . maybe run an extension cord from your house to the Alde plug? This would bypass the trailer's 110V circuit. Full disclosure, I'm not an electrician.

Along what @Tabaz suggested check the basics first: Does the outlet for the Alde work ? Plug in a hair dryer or a power tool or a lamp to check for power. The settings on the old style control panel are coil 1, coil 2, and both. So even if one coil has failed the other still provides heat.

Tabaz · September 15

Someone else posted that if you have Alde heat on propane, you have a functioning 12V power source to the Alde unit. Your problem seems to be limited to the 110/220V circuit. This is progress.

Parlando · September 15

@Tabaz @Grumpy_G @MuttonChops @ScottG @Bayliss
Problem Solved!
Thanks to everyone who chimed in. I went back over every little thing I could find. I used my Victron today and noticed that I had current & power were negative when they should have been positive as I was plugged in. I checked and found that one of my circuit breakers was off. ( I thought I had turned them all back on.) So I turned it on, and turned on the heat and checked 45 minutes later. The radiator in the Alde was warm... not hot, but everything I read has said that the Electrical heat is slow, much slower than the Propane, so I think we are good. I've read that it is a good thing to start with Propane, and then switch to electric if you are in a spot that provides it. Thank you everyone. I do apologize if I was a goofball, but truly appreciate everyone's help. PS. My new tail lights arrive tomorrow and I'm hopeful that will solve that problem. -Parlando

Grumpy_G · September 16

Actually you can use electric and propane together to get the system to heat up as fast as possible.

Parlando · September 16

Got it. Thanks Grumpy_G

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2015 T@B 320 Outback no electrical heat - Solved

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