Water Line Blow-Out vs RV Antifreeze...Experts please weigh in!

Cheryl74074
Cheryl74074 Posts: 71
in Heating/Plumbing & Winterizing
If you use an air compressor to blow all of the water out of your lines, why would you have to add RV antifreeze to fill all the tubing?
Shouldn't it be enough to do one or the other, but not necessary to do both?

(I know that you do need to put some RV antifreeze in the drains for the shower, sink, toilet, and the gray water and black water tanks.)


Cheryl, 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Diesel, 2015 T@b S Maxx (T@bitha)
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Comments

  • judymac
    judymac Posts: 403
    Same question we are asking. We learned our dealer put RV anti-freeze in our Alde lines, now we can't use it until we drain the lines. Going to be cold here, so we can't figure out what to do.
    Judy and Mike - Central KY 2014 T@B S M@X towed with Chevy Trailblazer   Nights in the T@B:  32

  • Cyclonic
    Cyclonic Posts: 1,232
    I use air to blow out my lines.  The system in a T@B is very small and it takes little time.  I just key the compressor to about 25PSI and connect it with a blow out adapter (I got a nice brass one from Wal-Mart for just a few dollars), and open all of the valves, which for me include the drain on the electric water heater, the hot and cold on the sink, and the hot and cold on the outside shower.  I also run the water pump for about 30 seconds.  Last step it to pour a little bit of anti-freeze down the drain to fill the trap.

    I use the blow out method because it is easy and because we camp year round, so I actually end up winterizing the T@Bpole several times each winter, after each trip.  I will do the first winterization in a few weeks after a weekend trip to Hershey, then again after a trip in December, and finally after a trip (to Florida) in January, so it saves a lot of effort to not have to clean the system of antifreeze each time.

    I have to find the thread, but I did post some pictures of the process.

    States the T@Bpole has camped, so far ;)
    Nathan & Becky... 2013 Ford F150 FX4 TAB HLR... 2012 LG T@B T@Bpole.
    Sterling, VA
  • judymac
    judymac Posts: 403
    Thanks, Cyclonic. Our heater is an Alde, a bit different. Your method of,winterizing seems more simple. I wondered how we could drive from cold weather to a warmer place and clean the drains at a campground. Do you actually carry your compressor with you to ensure the T@B doesn't encounter freezing temp problems,on your return home from FLA?
    Judy and Mike - Central KY 2014 T@B S M@X towed with Chevy Trailblazer   Nights in the T@B:  32

  • jkjenn
    jkjenn Posts: 6,424

    FYI, you can use a bike pump and blow out plug to clear tour lines, too. I just did that today because my air compressor did not work and is at the factory repair center.

    I did both because we are expecting a cold and snowy winter this year. I might de-winterize once the compressor is back and just blow out the lines.

    2021 T@b 320 Boondock "Mattie Ross" | 2021 T@b Nights: 239 | Total nights in a T@b 455 | 2022 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Overland | T@b owner since 2014

  • Cheryl74074
    Cheryl74074 Posts: 71
    We used the blow-out method with an air compressor today. I'm hoping that's all we need to do- it was easy. 
    We have the Alde.
    We're expecting freezing temps tomorrow night, so I hope more people will comment about whether or not this is enough.
    Cheryl, 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Diesel, 2015 T@b S Maxx (T@bitha)
  • judymac
    judymac Posts: 403
    Is there anything more compact than husband's big compressor? Our thoughts are that if driving our T@B to warmer climate we would need for it to remain winterized until we reach the campground. While I am trying to learn to be a minimalist with her, I dread the thoughts of using my TV space for a large compressor. Is the bike pump sufficient in this case? Is it acceptable to drain this environmentally safe product in the campground dump? Thank you.
    Judy and Mike - Central KY 2014 T@B S M@X towed with Chevy Trailblazer   Nights in the T@B:  32

  • judymac
    judymac Posts: 403
    Do you have this configuration? If so, should we assume that the valve in the upper right corner (silver in color) is the valve which would prohibit any water to the Alde. I am relating it to our main water shut off in our home. That valve has not been touched by us...YET
    Judy and Mike - Central KY 2014 T@B S M@X towed with Chevy Trailblazer   Nights in the T@B:  32

  • Nomad
    Nomad Posts: 7,209
    I bought a small compressor from Maynards (a midwest hardware chain) for $75. It is for inflating car tires, balls, rafts, etc. Has clips for connecting directly to the battery. I also bought a brass blowout connector that has a threaded stem just like on a car tire. Because of the threads, I can hook up / turn on the compressor, go inside and deal with faucets/valves while the small compressor runs.

    When it's in it's case it measures roughly 10x8x4. Figured I probably should have one not only for the blowout but to keep all the tires properly inflated as I travel.
  • judymac
    judymac Posts: 403
    Thanks. We have a small inflator but it tends to blow my 12V fuse in my Trailblazer. No battery clips on it either. Will share this info. Much better than carrying our big one.
    Judy and Mike - Central KY 2014 T@B S M@X towed with Chevy Trailblazer   Nights in the T@B:  32

  • Nomad
    Nomad Posts: 7,209
    You can get them with a cigarette lighter plug or clips - I opted for clips as it's easy to just open the propane cover and clip in - that is if you can easily get the battery cover off. It's then sitting right next to the water hookup and no vehicle needed.
  • Cheryl74074
    Cheryl74074 Posts: 71
    Well, this thread got hijacked. :) I'd still like to know if blowing out the lines is enough to winterize safely.
    Cheryl, 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Diesel, 2015 T@b S Maxx (T@bitha)
  • Cheryl74074
    Cheryl74074 Posts: 71
    Judy- if you want to do the blow out method and THEN isolate the Alde, just follow the red and blue hoses from the Alde and close the valves that are closest to the Alde.
    Cheryl, 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Diesel, 2015 T@b S Maxx (T@bitha)
  • judymac
    judymac Posts: 403
    Thanks Cheryl. Sorry if I high jacked thread. There are those who simply blow out the lines and pour RV anti/freeze into their traps and tanks. I imagine this is subjective. We had friends who blew the lines but didn't thoroughly winterized. Imagine how frustrating it wad when they took their first trip. I doubt anyone will answer your question with a simple yes or no. Good
    Judy and Mike - Central KY 2014 T@B S M@X towed with Chevy Trailblazer   Nights in the T@B:  32

  • Michigan_Mike
    Michigan_Mike Posts: 2,858
    edited January 2022
    Cyclonic said:
    I use air to blow out my lines.  The system in a T@B is very small and it takes little time.  I just key the compressor to about 25PSI and connect it with a blow out adapter (I got a nice brass one from Wal-Mart for just a few dollars), and open all of the valves, which for me include the drain on the electric water heater, the hot and cold on the sink, and the hot and cold on the outside shower.  I also run the water pump for about 30 seconds.  Last step it to pour a little bit of anti-freeze down the drain to fill the trap.

    I use the blow out method because it is easy and because we camp year round, so I actually end up winterizing the T@Bpole several times each winter, after each trip.  I will do the first winterization in a few weeks after a weekend trip to Hershey, then again after a trip in December, and finally after a trip (to Florida) in January, so it saves a lot of effort to not have to clean the system of antifreeze each time.

    I have to find the thread, but I did post some pictures of the process.
    Here is the information you were referring to Nathan:

    I used a blow out plug last year to winterize, and it worked well.  We take trips even in the winter, and this is the easiest way to do it.  

    Start by draining your hot water heater.  I have an electric one under the sink, which I can connect a hose to to drain.  I don't know the draining procedures for the Alde heaters.  Also open the fresh water tank's valve up and drain that.

    image

    Put the plug in your city water hook up and set the compressor to about 25psi.  Make sure to open all faucets, including the outdoor shower (we didn't use it, but it still had water in the lines) and run the water pump for about 30 seconds.

    image

    Once all the water is out close it up and pour a little bit of that pink antifreeze down the drain so that it fills the trap.  All this should take you less then thirty minutes.  The pictures are from me doing it at night after coming home in the snow last December.

    Mike - Elmira, Mi / 2019 T@B 400 / 2021 Chevy Silverado LTZ
  • deputydog
    deputydog Posts: 103
    I used the blow out procedure last year and it worked fine. Was told NOT to add. anti-freeze to lines because when alde heater is used in winter, hot water is also turned on even if no water in line. If line has antifreeze in it when/if it boils they do not know what fumes or problems may occur to lines. Alde works fine with line empty.

    TV is a 2007 Jeep Liberty. Own 2015 T@B Maxx s/wet-bath white green. St. Clair Shores, MI.

  • deputydog
    deputydog Posts: 103
    Just add antifreeze to traps of sinks, shower drain?,and small amount to fresh water tank 1/4 gallon, due to some water remaining after draining same :-@

    TV is a 2007 Jeep Liberty. Own 2015 T@B Maxx s/wet-bath white green. St. Clair Shores, MI.

  • CodeJunkie
    CodeJunkie Posts: 50

    This is what I am taking away from this thread.

    The Alde does not need water to run the heater.

    IF I plan to use the Alde (heater only, not hot water) during months when temps may fall below freezing, then

    1) drain all water lines and blow them out using the compressor

    2) pour antifreeze into all drain traps and fresh water tank (do not pump antifreeze into the water lines)

    IF I do NOT plan to use the Alde, it is OK to add antifreeze to the water lines (in addition to all traps).

    I thought I had this all figured out, but my head is swimming from information overload on winterizing the T@B.  It's a bit overwhelming trying to put all the pieces together.  Is my summary above correct?

    Debbie

    2014 T@B S M@xx with wetbath, aka PopT@B, silver with black trim, TV 2002 Chevy Avalanche

    "Take only pictures, leave only footprints."
  • Cheryl74074
    Cheryl74074 Posts: 71
    Debbie- Sounds good! 
    I'll just add one thing... if you have the bypass valve which enables you to isolate the Alde, then you can add antifreeze to the water lines, but make sure that the valves to the Alde are closed!
    Cheryl, 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Diesel, 2015 T@b S Maxx (T@bitha)
  • XPADREX
    XPADREX Posts: 311
    I did both... emptied the lines, then filled with antifreeze. Interesting, this thing about no antifreeze in the alde water lines.... I wonder what that is all about, truly.
    LOCATION: Fort Raccoon; UNIT: 2014 T@b S M@xxxx; MISSION: To have fun, make a difference, and make some friends along the way. Organ Donor Recipient- forever grateful. 
  • Cheryl74074
    Cheryl74074 Posts: 71
    Because RV antifreeze is basically just ethanol, there is concern about using the Alde for heat (not hot water) and boiling the ethanol that would be in the water lines.
    Cheryl, 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Diesel, 2015 T@b S Maxx (T@bitha)
  • Wanderoo
    Wanderoo Posts: 553
    Xpadrex - A Yahoo Forum member called Alde UK last year and their answer was they are "concerned" it might break down the glycol which is used in the Alde boiler, over time, when the RV antifreeze circulates and recirculates.  To be on the safe side, I am following their guidelines.         :-SS
    Beth, 2015 Toyota Tacoma (Ramblin' Rose), 2014 T@B S M@xx (ClemenT@B)
  • deputydog
    deputydog Posts: 103
    My alde did not work properly Unless I place switch to Hot water,even no water was in system.

    TV is a 2007 Jeep Liberty. Own 2015 T@B Maxx s/wet-bath white green. St. Clair Shores, MI.

  • XPADREX
    XPADREX Posts: 311
    There is a part of me that wonders if the glycol prohibition is a prophylactic move against litigation for people drinking water that went through the system. As with how many licks to get to the center of a Tootsie pop, "the world may never know." :)
    LOCATION: Fort Raccoon; UNIT: 2014 T@b S M@xxxx; MISSION: To have fun, make a difference, and make some friends along the way. Organ Donor Recipient- forever grateful. 
  • Corfu
    Corfu Posts: 51
    edited November 2014
    Hi, I have a config with Alde as Judymac pictured. Just winterized and here's what I did.
    Total of 2 gallons of antifreeze. Probably more than I need but I used it all anyway.
    • Drain the water holding tank, black, and grey tanks.
    • Attach air to the city water inlet at 30-40 PSI
    • Line Blowout using each of the following as the air outlet in sequence:
    1. Main sink Cold.
    2. Main sink Hot.
    3. (model S) shower sink Cold.
    4. (model S) shower sink Hot.
    5. (model S) toilet.
    6. Alde heat line drain
    7. Alde cold line drain
    8. Repeat. That should assure that the Alde water tank is nice and dry.
  • Turn off the main water supply valve to the Alde. This will isolate the Alde from the Supply (cold) side of the entire water system. This should remain closed until you dewinterize.
  • Remove the air supply from the city water inlet.
  • Pour 1.5 gallons of RV antifreeze into the water holding tank.
  • Turn on electric water pump.
  • Open Main sink cold water till is runs with antifreeze.
  • Open (model S) shower sink cold water till is runs with antifreeze.
  • Open (model S) toilet valve until it runs with antifreeze.
  • Turn off electric water pump.
  • Pour remainder .5 gallons of antifreeze equally down each of the drains (don't forget the shower floor drain if you have a model S.
    • So, with that I have:
  1. No antifreeze, or water, in the Alde (or any of the hot water lines as a consequence).
  2. The fresh water tank, cold lines, and importantly the electric water pump, all filled up with antifreeze.
  3. Some antifreeze in all the drain traps
  4. Some antifreeze in all 3 of the tanks (fresh, grey, black)
By the way, you can absolutely run the Alde heat with its water tank dry. The boiler is surrounded first by the heating jacket that is filled with glycol.

I would have been satisfied with just blowing the system out with air, but that leaves water in the electric water pump and lines connected to it. That pump would not do well in a freeze.

Hope that helps! And for goodness sake if you think what I did missed something or is just dumb, let me know!
Steve
Maryland
2014 T@B S Maxx "T@BOO"
2005 Honda Pilot
  • judymac
    judymac Posts: 403
    Ours is winterized and we may want to use ALDE only. How would you go about draining ALDE only? Marvin at factory said to open yellow valve but my husband isn't sure that is good enough. Air lock? We would use campground facilities for other things. Otherwise we are going to have to let our new T@B sit for 5-6 months. Boo! Your point #2: RV anti-freeze in cold water lines but not hot? Thank you.
    Judy and Mike - Central KY 2014 T@B S M@X towed with Chevy Trailblazer   Nights in the T@B:  32

  • ChanW
    ChanW Posts: 3,165
    Good explanation Steve.

    Judy, if you're using the Alde only to heat the Tab, you don't need water in the hot-water system, thus you won't need to re-drain it.

    If you want to use the Alde for hot (wash) water, you'll need to drain/blow-out the whole system again, to re-winterize when you're done with it. 

    Steve puts antifreeze in only the cold lines, because the Alde hot-water heater shouldn't have antifreeze in it while you're using the Alde for heat. Blowing the hot water lines out with air protects them.

    --  
    Chan
    2013 'S' Maxx

    Chan  -  near Buffalo NY
    2014 S Maxx
    2011 Tacoma 4cyl ... edit: 2022 Tacoma 6cyl - oh yeah! 

     A_Little_T@b'll_Do_Ya
  • judymac
    judymac Posts: 403
    Why is it safe/good enough to not put anti-freeze in hot water lines yet we do for cold? Is blowing out lines just not enough? We want to take all precautions. We aren't sure if opening yellow valve without another drain will get that RV anti-freeze out of Alde. Thank you.
    Judy and Mike - Central KY 2014 T@B S M@X towed with Chevy Trailblazer   Nights in the T@B:  32

  • ChanW
    ChanW Posts: 3,165
    I only use the compressed air method for winterizing the plumbing in our Tab, and don't use antifreeze.

    It's easier and less messy, with minimal chemical stuff to deal with. I found that flushing the antifreeze out completely in the spring was difficult. 

    I have to do it all systematically, as Steve described, and I make sure to do it multiple times, tilting the Tab various ways to make sure all the water is out. 

    Others think it's 'better safe than sorry' by also adding antifreeze, in case some water has remained in the lines.

    -- 
    Chan

    Chan  -  near Buffalo NY
    2014 S Maxx
    2011 Tacoma 4cyl ... edit: 2022 Tacoma 6cyl - oh yeah! 

     A_Little_T@b'll_Do_Ya
  • DurangoTaB
    DurangoTaB Posts: 754
    I agree with Chan...and would add a comment I haven't seen mentioned yet, and that is to make sure your T@B is at least level, or leaning slightly to port (all the drains are on the left side). Ours is parked on a starboard leaning hill, and after using compressed air, then towing it to a flat spot...there was still some water in the lines.

    J.D. & Sue

    Durango, CO    2014/15 S M@xx :  "Dory's HabiT@B"  Keep on swimming...

  • judymac
    judymac Posts: 403
    Any comments on how to get that RV anti-freeze out of our ALDE? We now know it should not have had it put in and we know it needs to drain. Our dealer did nothing wrong, it was just a lack of knowledge to them from LG. We suppose damage could be done if we don't drain it thoroughly before using HEAT only. We don't want to let this stop us from using until spring. Marvin @ the factory merely said open the yellow valve. We have a 3 valve system, not 5.
    Judy and Mike - Central KY 2014 T@B S M@X towed with Chevy Trailblazer   Nights in the T@B:  32

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