Rear View Camera for T@B and Tow Vehicle - Completed!

LauraRey · December 2016

Sorry, didn't see this posting until after I answered in private message. Goop. Got it. Thank you. I have the monitor sitting on my kitchen counter and am pondering where and how to mount it. I actually don't want to just put it on the dash as it will block my front view. I was wondering about a side mount toward the passenger side, but then realized there was an air bag there and that was a -bad- mounting location. Am thinking lower in my cars front console. Anyway, just rambling. Thanks for the answers!

LauraRey · December 2016

Here are the images...resized.

Michigan_Mike · December 2016

There's no way I'd risk the integrity of the outer trailer shell/interior for a back up camera but certainly understand this is a personal choice. And for folks with new trailers and warranty I'm guessing you risk voiding the warranty with such an add on so think about it and if a camera is necessary I'd discuss it with a dealer (if this is possible) before the build and see if it's possible through the factory.

Nomad · December 2016

A long time ago here on the forum, someone used an app on their iPhone/iPad pair so they could watch on their iPad what the camera on the iPhone was seeing (it was a remote camera app). They just attached the camera to the back (velcro?) of either TV or T@B and wirelessly had a backup camera. No wiring or installation required. Thought that was fairly ingenious.

ericnliz · December 2016

PXL, Now, that would be the way to go if one actually NEEDED a back-up camera. Kinda wondered about the warranty issue and drilling through the shell as well Mike. Just like I always say though... "to each their own". What works for one person, might not for another.

TabberJohn · December 2016

I doubt the mod performed did any damage to shell integrity regardless of multiple holes, even though there are layers of stuff in that portion of the roof.
I took the minimalist approach with one small hole in outer shell only. See updated post above: http://tab-rv.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/54005/#Comment_54005
Certainly no harm to the outer shell unless you also consider the 3 holes the factory drilled for the license plate light an infraction.

Regarding the need, I'm sure lots of people asked "What the heck do you need a backup camera for?" when first offered for cars.
If you don't have one you'll never miss it. If you do have one I doubt you'll ignore the monitor when backing up especially when parking.
In my case the TV rearview mirror is back to being a full time "mirror" while towing. No more staring at the front of the T@B. Plus you can tell exactly what's behind you in any traffic condition including pedestrians.

There's variations on most mods. Consider the cabinet door fix where some owners invested in special hinges, others mounted springs or struts, and my no-drill solution with magnets.
Yep "to each his own". Just have fun doing it.

AldebaranJill · December 2016

Michigan_Mike said:

There's no way I'd risk the integrity of the outer trailer shell/interior for a back up camera but certainly understand this is a personal choice. And for folks with new trailers and warranty I'm guessing you risk voiding the warranty with such an add on so think about it and if a camera is necessary I'd discuss it with a dealer (if this is possible) before the build and see if it's possible through the factory.

Drilling a 1/4" hole for a cord? How would this risk the integrity of the trailer shell or interior as long as you've sealed it against water? Why would this mod risk voiding warranty?

Michigan_Mike · December 2016

AldebaranJill said:

Michigan_Mike said:

There's no way I'd risk the integrity of the outer trailer shell/interior for a back up camera but certainly understand this is a personal choice. And for folks with new trailers and warranty I'm guessing you risk voiding the warranty with such an add on so think about it and if a camera is necessary I'd discuss it with a dealer (if this is possible) before the build and see if it's possible through the factory.

Drilling a 1/4" hole for a cord?

As Eric noted above, to each his own and I agree in principle with that. For me personally I don't need a back-up camera because I can easily back my trailer into most locations. And I do get out from time to time to gauge the distances to objects behind me (e.g., picnic tables, fire pits, trees, rocks, electric pedestals, etc.) and will use a helper as needed. But aesthetically I prefer the stock look of these trailers and wouldn't alter mine with anything other than electric outlet on the side. I can see some advantages for people who might need them and if I did mount one I'd probably mount it along the bottom edge and maybe with a small camera like this one.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021717/uploads/editor/l4/vco921xbeh30.jpg

AldebaranJill · December 2016

Yes, that's the exact camera I mounted to the rear of my car. But it's not wireless, nor does it have night vision. That's what makes the one I selected larger. But you could certainly use two small ones and purchase a wireless kit if you didn't want night vision.

At my house, I have to back into my driveway in between my house and a side fence - and seeing behind me is vital. I have to get in and out of my car a dozen times to make sure I'm in the right orientation and neither hitting my garage nor my side fence. I'm usually doing this frustrating activity in the dark, by myself, in the rain, after a long drive home. For my needs, this mod makes hitching, driving, camping, and coming home easier and safer. I wish I would have done it in 2013 when I bought the trailer.

Nomad · December 2016

I probably shouldn't say this but what the heck, I've said it before... Sorry, if you're pulling in after dark, your planning sucks :-)

jgram2 · December 2016

Alternatively, your excellent planning skills allowed you to use every minute of free time until you hit the hay in exhaustion, safely home.

Nomad · December 2016

Sorry, NOPE :-)

AldebaranJill · December 2016

Yup! I'm not going to camp a few hours from home just because the sun goes down - that's what electricity is for, to see in the dark. Today the sun set at 4:19pm - there's no way I am stopping and camping on the way home just because the sun has set.

AldebaranJill · December 2016

Twojgrams said:

Alternatively, your excellent planning skills allowed you to use every minute of free time until you hit the hay in exhaustion, safely home.

Agree 100% - As long as I'm home by 10pm, I'm good.

Nomad · December 2016

There's two ends to that - Stopping early and leaving earlier - Focusing on the later takes care of the former :-) :-) :-)

ericnliz · December 2016

PXL, One would think after all this time, you would learn to jump OVER the mud puddles, not squarely into the center of 'em! Some of us whom either work, or have better halves that work sometimes don't always have the luxury of either leaving, or stopping at the most convenient times. Now we're back to the "to each their own", huh?

gulfarea · December 2016

I like knowing just who is right behind me these days so a rear view camera would be worth a lot to me as I pull over and let folks behind me pass if I am on a 2 lane road when ever I can. I would think a good place to mount it would be in the lip of the electric fan vent facing aft on the roof that way it could cover a lot of view and in case of some later problem only the fan hole would have to be repaired. Art

Michigan_Mike · December 2016

PXLated said:

There's two ends to that - Stopping early and leaving earlier - Focusing on the later takes care of the former :-) :-) :-)

During my travels I like to get off the road before sundown to eliminate or at least minimize the potential of hitting an animal like a deer at night. They normally move just before sundown and also like to graze along the edge of highways. I rode a Harley and camped when I was younger and have for the most part stuck to this strategy and it has served me well throughout the years. And if someone approaches from the rear and is traveling too close to the trailer I normally will just flip on my 4-way flashers until they back off or go around me. Some people just don't get it, nor understand that you can't just stop these units on a dime and do need some space to bring your trailer and tow vehicle to a stop.

TabberJohn · December 2016

Just to be clear to everyone this type of mod delivers a full time rearview camera. It is not just for backing up.
If some teenager in a Fiat 300 is riding your T@B bumper, you'll see them along with whatever else is directly behind you at a stop light, intersection, parking lot, etc.
The camera type I used is available in up or down mount models. One small hole is drilled under the license plate lip (up mount), or top of the lip (down mount), or on the roof somewhere (down mount). This small camera (1-1/4" square) requires no bracket to mount. It is not adjustable but you can insert a wedge if required.
I can post screen shots of the monitor if anyone wants including night vision which works fine without IR lights (.01 lux Sony CCD lens).
The model camera AldebranJill went with has additional IR lights to illuminate the surrounding area which I'm sure is helpful in her tight home parking situation.
However, there is plenty of ambient light produced by your T@B rear lights for a low light camera view at night.

AldebaranJill · December 2016

ericnliz said:

PXL, One would think after all this time, you would learn to jump OVER the mud puddles, not squarely into the center of 'em! Some of us whom either work, or have better halves that work sometimes don't always have the luxury of either leaving, or stopping at the most convenient times. Now we're back to the "to each their own", huh?

To each their own as long as they are home before dark and use blocks for leveling

AldebaranJill · December 2016

gulfarea said:

I like knowing just who is right behind me these days so a rear view camera would be worth a lot to me as I pull over and let folks behind me pass if I am on a 2 lane road when ever I can. I would think a good place to mount it would be in the lip of the electric fan vent facing aft on the roof that way it could cover a lot of view and in case of some later problem only the fan hole would have to be repaired. Art

I thought about that, but to hard to work up in the air - but that would totally be a possible location for maximum view.

AldebaranJill · December 2016

TabberJohn said:

Lookin good. Let us know how it all works out in the field.
My experience in the driveway (steady and clear) is a lot different than on the road (uneven performance).
Not sure if the cause is general RF interference on the inexpensive 2.4Ghz transmitter/receiver or whether shielding is required on all wiring.
In my case you can forget about a usable image when you drive near power lines or a big rig running RF of their own passes you.
My setup was also around $100. The FURRION unit TACOMAGUY is using is closer to $400 but it's plug-and-play with built-in 5Ghz digital transmitter/receiver and no wiring other than power source. Of course the 100 ft range is bit overkill.
Wish there was a side-by-side review website that tested wireless cameras in the field under various conditions.
My setup looked great in the driveway during the install but interference occurs irregularly when traveling. Still very usable but annoying sometimes.
I turned off the backup guidelines as I found them distracting while driving.

Hi @TabberJohn - I too am experiencing uneven performance on the road, and am working with the seller on Amazon and an electrical engineer who stopped by to say hello on our camping trip, to see how best to optimize. Am tweaking receiver location and antenna orientation, turning off other sources of possible interference (bluetooth). Highway driving rear view intermittent. Country rear view good. Driveway stationary view good. Neighborhood drive, intermittent. But hitching and backing up at house, at night, was really nice. Work in progress. Let me know if you out any tricks to minimize interference other than hard wiring.

AldebaranJill · December 2016

Oh, and @TabberJohn, the seller thinks it's got to do with distance between receiver and transmitter and solid objects between them. But it's theory. Moving from inside trunk to rear window did help, still not good enough though. Continuing to work on this. Amazon reviews are good, so must be a way to have this be less intermittent on highway.

AldebaranJill · December 2016

I've run a bunch of tests and consulted with my new EE friend, and either the transmitter/receiver are defective, or just don't work for some reason in this application. It works best if the transmitter/receiver are near eachother, and nothing is turned on or moving. Each variable seems like it adds more and more wireless issues, until when you add them all up, a moving trailer, a moving car, big city highway, it is too intermittent to see behind you while driving.

I've sent the Seller video of the behavior, of my setup, etc and the seller of the system is suggesting I hardwire the video line, and offering to send cable for that, I'm asking for a partial refund, and so we'll see what happens next.

Once the saga comes to it's conclusion, I'll let folks know whether it would have been easier just to buy two small cameras (I bought one) and a separate two input monitor and hardware both from the get-go. But then I supposed I'd never know if wireless would have worked

Stay Tuned.

Nomad · December 2016

Out of curiosity, what wireless protocol does this use?

AldebaranJill · December 2016

2.4 GHz is the frequency, no specific technology or protocol listed.

Nomad · December 2016

Sounds familiar, think that's the freq range for everything from garage door openers to baby monitors as it's a free, open freq. Be nice to know what protocol they're using. Would be easier to diagnose. Betting they didn't write their own and it's open source of some kind.
My camera (Sony-A7) has wifi built in and I can set up a private connection between my iPad/iPhone and totally control the camera. Works flawlessly up to about 150 ft with no interference. Bluetooth is very short range.

AldebaranJill · December 2016

Protocols and frequencies are different things. Apples and oranges.

The camera is simply broadcasting at a particular frequency. I do not believe there is any communication back and forth that would require a "protocol" of rules for data exchange as in WiFi or Bluetooth enabled devices. It is digital, versus analog (like FM radio), but there is not any kind of electronic handshake/rules of engagement between this transmitter and receiver. The transmitter is like a person shouting from one mountain top, and the receiver is another struggling to hear them.

That is not to say that a device operating under a particular protocol that uses the same frequency cannot interefere, it can. But so can magnetic fields caused by currents, metallic structures acting as shields, etc.

This is not a "protocol" issue. This is an RF issue. The receiver can't consistently detect the transmitter's signal.

Open source refers to software being developed in such a way that the source code is visible, not RF, another thing entirely. "Open source" is also a technical term unrelated to the current issue at hand.

My iPhone can also be set up to work as a WiFi hotspot and communicate with all kinds of other WiFi devices. However this is unrelated to the problem I am trying to solve.

I should state I am not an RF expert or an Electrical Engineer, but I worked for Motorola for nearly 20 years in the communication division. Which is why when an EE tells me it is an RF issue and hard wiring is my best option, it makes sense to me.

Nomad · December 2016

"Protocols and frequencies are different things" - Yes, AM aware of that AND everything else you just stated. But, in addition to hardware interference filtering don't some protocols also have filtering, etc built into them?
But yes, sounds like a simple interference just like some have had with their T@B TVs and the undercounter lights etc.

LauraRey · December 2016

From a response by Camecho to another customer: "Please power off other FM or electric device when you use wireless unit. Between wireless receiver and transmitter, as much as possible reduce other solide obstacle." So, it does look like an RF issue.

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Rear View Camera for T@B and Tow Vehicle - Completed!

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