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REMOVE or MOVE Various Certification Seals/Labels ?

MuttonChopsMuttonChops Member Posts: 1,698
in Modifications & Upgrades

Has Anyone Removed or Moved the Certification Labels

Background

The certification seals are; RVIA, CSA Z240, Washington State.
I do not know how many other states use/require the Washington Seal the way many states use the California Vehicle emissions standards

These two or three Seals are placed right at the entry door. A nice front and center location during the sales – marketing life of a new trailer. Not so great once the unit is sold.

All three are Safety Certifications not build quality certifications.
They insure the RV is built to legal (or organization standards) requirements for strength, electrical, propane usage and require the manufacturer to document their methods and allow inspections by the Government or Organization. Don't know for sure but would guess RVIA also addresses things like location of electrical, sewage, fresh water ports

RVIA is an manufacturers organization and we buyers cannot read the standards.
Washington Seal requirements are that the RV must meet Washington Laws (which we could research) and the application/contract says the Seal must be affixed to the RV at time of sale in Washington State. Location is not defined.
CSA Z240 is Canadian. Don't know if it is Government or “UL” like. Testing for T@Bs is completed by Intertek

Side note:
DOT/NHTSA required labels like GVWR and Tire Pressure are required to be placed in a general area which is not the front & center entry door.


How to Remove/Move ? ?

All three are the metal style labels that tend to wriggle badly when removed (part of fraud security? ) making smooth replacement difficult. Also don't know how useful the adhesive would be for a second placement.

I've considered photographing, removing, placing on paper, keeping with original manuals.
Ideally would like to remove – move to a location that is not front & center.

Any Thought or Comments out there?
'18 320 S,  pitched axle, 3020HE; PNW based
TV: '17 Colorado V6 Z71 4x4, Tow Package, GM Brake Controller
Adventures:  54   Nights:  341  Towing Miles 43,780
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Comments

  • jgram2jgram2 Member Posts: 1,522
    @MuttonChops Is it possible for you to post a photo of these seals/labels?
    John, Judi, Guinness & OD in PDX
    T@Bit@t 2015 S Max Outback, ‘18 V6 4Runner 


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  • MuttonChopsMuttonChops Member Posts: 1,698
    Twojgrams said:
    . . . possible for you to post a photo of these seals/labels?
    '18 320 S,  pitched axle, 3020HE; PNW based
    TV: '17 Colorado V6 Z71 4x4, Tow Package, GM Brake Controller
    Adventures:  54   Nights:  341  Towing Miles 43,780
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  • ScottGScottG Administrator Posts: 5,548
    I think those things are like the tags that come on pillows. I wouldn't remove them unless you plan to spend a long time in JAIL!

    Seriously, if you must remove them (and I'm assuming your motivation is purely cosmetic) you might try a hair dryer to soften the adhesive and some fine fishing line worked behind the seal. This is a common practice for getting metal emblems, etc off bodywork, though I don't know how well it would word for something that is more like a sticker.

    I'm pretty sure my 2015 only has the Intertek sticker.
    2015 T@B S

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  • HomebodyatheartHomebodyatheart Member Posts: 2,511
    Goo B Gone?
    2017 T@B 320 Max S silver and cherry red, L@dybug ("Bug" aka my esc@pe pod), TV 2015 Toyota Highlander aka Big Red
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  • ericnlizericnliz Member Posts: 4,437
    @MuttonChops, I have the same stickers, & I'm pretty sure they a re required by Wa, State law. You might want to check with the Wa. State D.O.L. before removing them. I'd like to know what they have to say about it though. I HATE STICKERS!!!! :o
    2016 T@B MAX S-aka: WolfT@B
    TV: 2006 Chevy Avalanche LT Z71 aka: WhiteWolf, or 1972 Chevy Custom10 P/U aka: SnarlingWolf
    Spokane, Wa.
    Eric aka: Lone Wolf  


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  • DalehelmanDalehelman Member Posts: 2,410
    It probably would never be an issue with our T@Bs, but some private RV parks require those certifications. It allows them to turn away home built units that do not meet code and could cause problems to their electric grid. Or be a fire hazard. 


    1. Hash  T@B Fun
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  • abenteurerabenteurer Member Posts: 72
    +1 for Dalehelman's comment plus I'm thinking some states may require the stickers in conjunction with annual state vehicle inspections.  Best to check before peeling.
    Otherwise, test local enforcement by quietly cutting off a mattress or pillow tag late one dark, rainy night and then peer through the blinds to see if government officials with guns show up.  If not, you may be okay...
    2016 T@B M@x S | 2015 Grand Cherokee 5.7L HEMI (awesome) with factory tow pkg | 2017 Wrangler Sahara (awesome) 4-dr with factory max tow pkg
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  • dragonsdoflydragonsdofly Member Posts: 1,927
    @MuttonChops, your question is very interesting. What I can say is that my trailer, ordered and sold here in Michigan does NOT have those stickers. While the argument that it may be necessary is somewhat logical, the assumption would have to be that no one camps in rv parks in Washington who is not from the state of Washington, because if it were really a safety or certification issue, I could not camp there as my t@b lacks those decals. Before you remove the pictured decals, I'd check with your states DMV to find if they are necessary to renew, register or plate your trailer. That's the only caveat I can imagine to removing them. Interesting, verrrrrrrrrry interesting. 
    2017 t@b sofitel(Dr@gonsFly)TV 2015 Silverado 2500hd(Behemoth). Wyandotte, Michigan.
    Draco dormiens numquam titilandus.
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  • MuttonChopsMuttonChops Member Posts: 1,698
    Have not taken any action to remove/move these labels, yet.
    Do like the Heat Gun & Fishing Line suggestion as a possible way to do the deed.

    Did attempt to research the "Washington State Seal".
    For new unit sales:  Seems clear that for a manufacturer to build, sell, or lease an RV in Washington State they must apply for state certification by the Department of Labor and Industries.  Primary goals of certification are to confirm RV design and construction meet Washington law/regulations.  Which are basically references to National Safety Standard and USDOT for frame design, electrical, and propane.  Manufacturer needs to track (transfer to L&I) assigned seal number and VIN data.

    The fine print states the Washington Seal must be placed at least 10 inches above ground at the main door side opposite the hinges at time of leaving factory, sale, or leasing.  So now we know why that label is Front & Center.

    Washington DMV research on future private owner selling of RV.
    As long as an RV being sold has a Washington State Title there are no additional inspection/standard requirements.  Would guess in theory the VIN on Title could be traced back to original L&I documents provided by manufacturer if anyone really cared.  Do a bill of sale, sign over title, pay a fee.

    Believe Washington State does not have any yearly inspection requirements for RV annual tab purchases.

    Will think on it some more . . . still long range planning on removing/moving them.  Maybe attempt it on the Z240 (Canadian) 'seal'.
    '18 320 S,  pitched axle, 3020HE; PNW based
    TV: '17 Colorado V6 Z71 4x4, Tow Package, GM Brake Controller
    Adventures:  54   Nights:  341  Towing Miles 43,780
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  • MuttonChopsMuttonChops Member Posts: 1,698
    ericnliz said:
     have the same stickers, & I'm pretty sure they a re required by Wa, State law.

    You might want to check with the Wa. State D.O.L. before removing them.

    Have written e-mails** to WA-DOL and WA-L&IOffice of Factory Assembled Structures seeking additional answers.

    As noted in early posting, DOL has no references to any inspection or seals for transfer of ownership.

    ** With luck, someone looking for something different in their day will write a non-form-letter reply.


    '18 320 S,  pitched axle, 3020HE; PNW based
    TV: '17 Colorado V6 Z71 4x4, Tow Package, GM Brake Controller
    Adventures:  54   Nights:  341  Towing Miles 43,780
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  • MuttonChopsMuttonChops Member Posts: 1,698

    For @ericnliz and Other Washington State owners


    Some information from WA Department of L&I

    In short; don't remove or alter the WA RV Seal.

    Source:
    FAS Plan Examiner
    Washington State Department of Labor and Industries
    Field Services and Public Safety

    Some of his comments:
     
    . . . at initial sale are to be reviewed and approved and be labeled. If the unit has a state label it is to remain and not be removed or it will compromise licensing, re-sale, etc.

    . . . WAC 296-150R, available online, [has requirements “R” is the “RV” chapter] . . . there is no [Seal] removal options indicated (by not saying it, it does not imply its ok)

    . . . . There is replacement options although [they] require inspections. I would suggest not going that route for issues of code changes that could possibly require updates etc.

    Additional Notes;

    from WAC 296-150R-0050
    . . . it is unlawful for any person to sell, lease, or offer for sale a recreational vehicle within this state if it violates any of the requirements of this chapter . . .

    from WAC 296-150R-0250
    How do I replace lost or damaged insignia?
    (1) If an insignia is lost or damaged after it is placed on a recreational vehicle and you are the manufacturer or owner, you must notify us in writing immediately.
    (2) Your notification should include the following information:
      (a) Your name, address, and telephone number;
      (b) The vehicle identification number or serial number and model;
      (c) The insignia number and design-plan approval number, if applicable; and
      (d) The required fee. (See WAC 296-150R-3000.)
    (3) If we can determine that your unit previously had an insignia, we will attach the insignia to your vehicle once we receive your insignia fee. (See WAC 296-150R-3000.)

    = = =

    L&I could of course not address the Trade Industry labels.
    '18 320 S,  pitched axle, 3020HE; PNW based
    TV: '17 Colorado V6 Z71 4x4, Tow Package, GM Brake Controller
    Adventures:  54   Nights:  341  Towing Miles 43,780
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  • ericnlizericnliz Member Posts: 4,437
    Guess we'll just have to leave the sticker stuck then, huh?  :s;)
    2016 T@B MAX S-aka: WolfT@B
    TV: 2006 Chevy Avalanche LT Z71 aka: WhiteWolf, or 1972 Chevy Custom10 P/U aka: SnarlingWolf
    Spokane, Wa.
    Eric aka: Lone Wolf  


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  • jgram2jgram2 Member Posts: 1,522
    @MuttonChops  Thanks for doing all of this homework!
    John, Judi, Guinness & OD in PDX
    T@Bit@t 2015 S Max Outback, ‘18 V6 4Runner 


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  • ericnlizericnliz Member Posts: 4,437
    X2 :)
    2016 T@B MAX S-aka: WolfT@B
    TV: 2006 Chevy Avalanche LT Z71 aka: WhiteWolf, or 1972 Chevy Custom10 P/U aka: SnarlingWolf
    Spokane, Wa.
    Eric aka: Lone Wolf  


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  • MuttonChopsMuttonChops Member Posts: 1,698
    edited November 2019
    Have Had Enough of the Ugly Stickers

    One Washington State employee believes removing the WA Seal could cause future resale complications but since the WA DOL has zero reference to the WA Seal being required for resale I've finally decided to remove them and make the space available for me!

    If very old age or death the plan is for my children to have to deal with it anyway.

    The Heat Gun Method worked great.  Also used some of my Car Interior Plastic Removal tools.  Then placed them on a sheet of paper and will save with T@B papers.

    I'm a rule follower, but at times . . . .

    '18 320 S,  pitched axle, 3020HE; PNW based
    TV: '17 Colorado V6 Z71 4x4, Tow Package, GM Brake Controller
    Adventures:  54   Nights:  341  Towing Miles 43,780
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  • Sharon_is_SAMSharon_is_SAM Administrator Posts: 9,732
    That’ll show ‘em who is boss!  No doubt, someone just kept copying the manual...
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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  • PhotomomPhotomom Member Posts: 2,217
    Well, I can tell you I would never buy a used T@B without the Azdel sticker! 
    John and Henrietta, Late 2016 T@B S Max in Western New York
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  • MuttonChopsMuttonChops Member Posts: 1,698
    Photomom said:
    Well, I can tell you I would never buy a used T@B without the Azdel sticker! 

    Did think on that one.  Decided the material is not so T@B special as I've seen other manufacturers promoting it.   While Alde is special . . . T@B and Airstream for now ?

    Azdel is also referenced in the sales information for my model year.
    '18 320 S,  pitched axle, 3020HE; PNW based
    TV: '17 Colorado V6 Z71 4x4, Tow Package, GM Brake Controller
    Adventures:  54   Nights:  341  Towing Miles 43,780
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