Gas Failure

cooper31525

Hello all.  I have a 2016 T@B CS-S Max with the Alde 3010.  While camping this weekend, the Alde display showed a “gas failure” warning.  I checked the propane tank and it appeared to be empty so I exchanged it with a new one.  I hooked the new propane up and I got the “gas failure” warning again.  I checked the cooktop and gas was running fine there.  I tried removing the fuse for the Alde, flipping the breaker for the Alde, and turning off the main electrical switch in hopes that something needed to reset in the system.  No luck.  After this, I paid a little more attention to what was going on.  These are my observations:

I noticed dripping noise behind the toilet so I investigated and saw the glycol tank for the Alde was at “min”.  I haven’t had a chance to top off yet.

After turning the system off for about 10 minutes and then turning it back on, I hear the Alde turn on.  I can hear what sounds like a propane torch under the bed, it starts getting warm under the bed, and I can feel hot exhaust coming out of the exhaust port on the outside of the camper.  After about 10 minutes I can hear the propane torch sound stop...then silence for a few minutes.  Then the system makes sounds that make me think that it is trying to cycle back on but the propane torch sound never comes back.  Instead I see the “gas failure” warning flashing again.

If I turn the system off and turn it back on immediately, I immediately get the “gas failure” warning.  If I turn it off for about 10 minutes, the system will cycle as described in the paragraph above.

Any thoughts?  I would appreciate any feedback.

Sharon_is_SAM

The control panel “gas failure” warning can be reset by disconnecting the 12 v line or try just turning the battery switch off - wait a couple minutes- then turn the battery switch back on.  

cooper31525

Yes, thanks.  That was one of the things I tried but the warning comes back.

ScottG

The fact that it starts and runs for a period of time is curious. It suggests that your ignition sequence (blower-ignitor-gas flow) is working and you have some propane in the line.

In addition to rebooting the power supply, I would close and verrry slowly reopen the tank valve. I would also check for leaks around the propane regulator. It's a long shot, but improper tank valve opening or a small leak might reduce the gas flow enough that the burner couldn't be reignited.

cooper31525

ScottG said:

The fact that it starts and runs for a period of time is curious. It suggests that your ignition sequence (blower-ignitor-gas flow) is working and you have some propane in the line.

In addition to rebooting the power supply, I would close and verrry slowly reopen the tank valve. I would also check for leaks around the propane regulator. It's a long shot, but improper tank valve opening or a small leak might reduce the gas flow enough that the burner couldn't be reignited.

Thank you very much.  I will give that a shot.

Sharon_is_SAM

I also wonder about air in the gas line to the Alde.

ScottG

Sharon_is_SAM said:

I also wonder about air in the gas line to the Alde.

Agreed. The lines could have gotten air in them when the original tank ran dry, though in that case it seems odd the burner would run fine for ten minutes before conking out.

If it is just trapped air a few more cycles of flameout and reboot should get the lines purged.

cooper31525

Verna said:

@cooper31525, how level was your T@B?  

I discovered this week while “camping” at a rest park on the interstate that my Alde would not stay on because I was so un-level. The same thing happened last night at a Pilot Truck stop that was more I level.  (54* in the am inside is a bit chilly!)

The Alde appeared to run for about 90 seconds to two minutes, then the “gas failure” alarm came on my screen. 

The Alde is running just fine tonight on the same 1/2 tank of propane. I made sure I was level tonight. 

By the way, after almost 5 years of owning two different T@B’s, this is the first time I have been so un-level that the Alde wouldn’t operate.

I think I was pretty level, Verna.  Honestly though, I use an app on my phone to level the camper and it should be accurate but I don’t trust it.  I should probably get some bubble levels.  Your reply was very insightful and I really appreciate your thoughts.  I never would’ve considered this as a possible problem.

N7SHG_Ham

@Verna that is odd, can't think of anything in the Alde that would require leveling? Only possible explantation might be the flame sensor, the flame would tend to be verticle and if you are enough off level I suppose the flame may not hit the sensor?

Michigan_Mike

cooper31525 said:

Hello all.  I have a 2016 T@B CS-S Max with the Alde 3010.  While camping this weekend, the Alde display showed a “gas failure” warning.  I checked the propane tank and it appeared to be empty so I exchanged it with a new one.  I hooked the new propane up and I got the “gas failure” warning again.  I checked the cooktop and gas was running fine there.  I tried removing the fuse for the Alde, flipping the breaker for the Alde, and turning off the main electrical switch in hopes that something needed to reset in the system.  No luck.  After this, I paid a little more attention to what was going on.  These are my observations:

I noticed dripping noise behind the toilet so I investigated and saw the glycol tank for the Alde was at “min”.  I haven’t had a chance to top off yet. I noticed dripping noise behind the toilet so I investigated and saw the glycol tank for the Alde was at “min”.  I haven’t had a chance to top off yet.

After turning the system off for about 10 minutes and then turning it back on, I hear the Alde turn on.  I can hear what sounds like a propane torch under the bed, it starts getting warm under the bed, and I can feel hot exhaust coming out of the exhaust port on the outside of the camper.  After about 10 minutes I can hear the propane torch sound stop...then silence for a few minutes.  Then the system makes sounds that make me think that it is trying to cycle back on but the propane torch sound never comes back.  Instead I see the “gas failure” warning flashing again.

If I turn the system off and turn it back on immediately, I immediately get the “gas failure” warning.  If I turn it off for about 10 minutes, the system will cycle as described in the paragraph above.

Any thoughts?  I would appreciate any f

After turning the system off for about 10 minutes and then turning it back on, I hear the Alde turn on.  I can hear what sounds like a propane torch under the bed, it starts getting warm under the bed, and I can feel hot exhaust coming out of the exhaust port on the outside of the camper.  After about 10 minutes I can hear the propane torch sound stop...then silence for a few minutes.  Then the system makes sounds that make me think that it is trying to cycle back on but the propane torch sound never comes back.  Instead I see the “gas failure” warning flashing again.

If I turn the system off and turn it back on immediately, I immediately get the “gas failure” warning.  If I turn it off for about 10 minutes, the system will cycle as described in the paragraph above.

Any thoughts? 

Low battery voltage (per Alde) will cause this situation and others have noted it in the past.  Charge up your battery and see if the problem is resolved.  I also agree with unhooking the tank, rehooking it again to see if things resolve themselves and ensuring the trailer is properly leveled.   

cooper31525

Michigan_Mike said:

cooper31525 said:

Hello all.  I have a 2016 T@B CS-S Max with the Alde 3010.  While camping this weekend, the Alde display showed a “gas failure” warning.  I checked the propane tank and it appeared to be empty so I exchanged it with a new one.  I hooked the new propane up and I got the “gas failure” warning again.  I checked the cooktop and gas was running fine there.  I tried removing the fuse for the Alde, flipping the breaker for the Alde, and turning off the main electrical switch in hopes that something needed to reset in the system.  No luck.  After this, I paid a little more attention to what was going on.  These are my observations:

I noticed dripping noise behind the toilet so I investigated and saw the glycol tank for the Alde was at “min”.  I haven’t had a chance to top off yet. I noticed dripping noise behind the toilet so I investigated and saw the glycol tank for the Alde was at “min”.  I haven’t had a chance to top off yet.

After turning the system off for about 10 minutes and then turning it back on, I hear the Alde turn on.  I can hear what sounds like a propane torch under the bed, it starts getting warm under the bed, and I can feel hot exhaust coming out of the exhaust port on the outside of the camper.  After about 10 minutes I can hear the propane torch sound stop...then silence for a few minutes.  Then the system makes sounds that make me think that it is trying to cycle back on but the propane torch sound never comes back.  Instead I see the “gas failure” warning flashing again.

If I turn the system off and turn it back on immediately, I immediately get the “gas failure” warning.  If I turn it off for about 10 minutes, the system will cycle as described in the paragraph above.

Any thoughts?  I would appreciate any f

After turning the system off for about 10 minutes and then turning it back on, I hear the Alde turn on.  I can hear what sounds like a propane torch under the bed, it starts getting warm under the bed, and I can feel hot exhaust coming out of the exhaust port on the outside of the camper.  After about 10 minutes I can hear the propane torch sound stop...then silence for a few minutes.  Then the system makes sounds that make me think that it is trying to cycle back on but the propane torch sound never comes back.  Instead I see the “gas failure” warning flashing again.

If I turn the system off and turn it back on immediately, I immediately get the “gas failure” warning.  If I turn it off for about 10 minutes, the system will cycle as described in the paragraph above.

Any thoughts? 

Low battery voltage (per Alde) will cause this situation and others have noted it in the past.  Charge up your battery and see if the problem is resolved.  I also agree with unhooking the tank, rehooking it again to see if things resolve themselves and ensuring the trailer is properly leveled.   

Thanks for your thoughts about the battery.  I did check the battery voltage meter while this was going on and when the Alde was running the meter was reading 11.8-12 volts.  When the Alde was off, the meter read 12.2 volts.  I just looked at the Alde manual and it said that the system will shut off the propane at 10.5 volts.  Maybe when the Alde starts it might quickly pull down the voltage enough to stop the system?  Thanks for your suggestions and I will definitely try them out.

Sprout

Hello, Cooper,  We are haing the same exact problem when bookdocking in temps below 40.  Has your Gas Failure issue been resolved?  We have been in touch with Nucamp who sent us the high altitude gas regulator, and the problem still has not been resolved.

jkjenn

I have the analog panel so I dont get the digital error, but I find I have to open the tank very, very slowly, (1/4 to 1/2 turn at a time, especially when at altitude.) 

When I forget to do that, I close it and let it sit for a minute then reopen the valve super slowly.

MuttonChops

Sprout said:

. . . are having the same exact problem when bookdocking in temps below 40. 

As other posts in this thread note, Battery Voltage can be a factor.
A cold morning ( <35F ) and cold battery has stopped my Alde from heating on propane several times.  In each case the propane burner would cycle starting burner and shutting down . . . panel did not display any failure codes . . . burner never reached a steady burn.  Connecting 7-pin and running TV engine would allow Alde to run normal.  Not a great solution.

I'm in the process of upgrading the Grp-24 70AHr vented flooded battery to a Grp-27 100AHr AGM and reviewing my electrical power usage between loss of solar power and "my time to get warm" mornings.  Am also considering a battery blanket; an old VW Jetta of mine with "cold weather package" had a nice little blanket pad around the battery. Could be next fall before I know if I've solved the energy balancing act.

Spruce1

We experienced essentially the same issue as Cooper31525 with our Alde 3010. 

After a few attempts our dealer was not able to fix the issue.  I ended up working directly with Alde and they helped me diagnosis the problem as an intermittent issue with the gas solenoid.  

I replaced the solenoid a few weeks back and have tested the Alde system three times since the repair and it’s been working great.  We’re in Minnesota and I’ve ran it in temps ranging from 20 to 50 degrees.   

The part number is 3010622 and it runs $116.70. I bought the part directly from Alde although my understanding is that they’ve change their approach and you now have to go through a dealer. I hope you will find this information useful. 

BTW if you go to YouTube and search "replace Alde 3010 solenoid" you will find a video that shows you have to replace.  It took me about 30 minutes.

morey000

This is the error I saw this weekend.  Temps in the mid to upper 40's at night. Plenty of propane.  Battery Voltage- I think good.  ??   Alde 3020.  Error was intermittent.  Happened a couple times, but turned the Alde off and on, and it seemed to work afterwards.

Is this the error you are all talking about?

Verna

@morey000, I worked with tech@nucamprv.com and tech support at Alde on the phone to determine what was wrong with mine. Due to a lack of available time for more trouble shooting, I ended up taking the 400 to nüCamp’s repair shop and they replaced the main circuit board. 

morey000

thanks @Verna I did get an email from NuCamp to help me diagnose.  Creed from NuCamp offered "Gas failure will either be a low battery, a bad combustion fan, low propane or a circuit board. It happens too if they’re at high altitudes Usually low battery or high altitude is the culprit"

I have him my Battery numbers (lowest voltage from my controller which logs these things- was 12.2V), altitude (5,500ft) and that my propane was just filled and is still nearly completely full.  So- circuit board may be the thing. 

morey000

@Verna Ok- Creed from NuCamp offered me the probable solution- which I knew was there but totally forgot about it.  The 3020 model has a high altitude mode.  It's deep in the settings area, not obvious so- you have to go looking for it.  But-now I've got it set to 'mountain' mode.  Planning on being at 8,400 feet this weekend... so- will be a good test.

Verna

@morey000, I’ve been surprised with my 3020 as it needs to go into high altitude over 2500’ . Each one seems to be different. But, definitely try the high altitude setting as it certainly is an improvement. Enjoy!