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T@B 400 & Tesla Model X?

tcmeyerstcmeyers Member Posts: 12
in Trailer & Towing
We have a 2018 Tesla Model X 100D with the towing package. It’s rated at 5000 lbs pull and 500 lbs tongue. But it supposedly can only use a ball mount with a maximum rise of 3/4” which puts the top of a 2” ball at 16-3/4”. A 2-5/16 ball would be a bit higher, but I’m not sure of the exact number. I have a feeling everyone ignores this, but I hesitate to. 

I’m interested in the T@B 400... is anyone pulling one with a Tesla Model X?
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    Denny16Denny16 Member Posts: 5,445
    edited February 2020
    The top of the TaB400 is closer to 17-18 inches, depending on the tires, so a 16-inch trailer ball height is going to be a little low.  The correct ball size is 2-inches.  Hope this helps.
    Cheers
    2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock,  Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
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    VernaVerna Member Posts: 6,878
    A sticker on the side of the 400’s tongue says that a 2” ball must be used. 
    Verna, Columbus, IN
    2021 T@B 320S  Boondock “The T@B”
    Towed by a white 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 Supercab, 3.5L V6 Ecoboost “The Truck”
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    falcon1970falcon1970 Member Posts: 755
    I'm curious about what kind of mileage (miles per full charge, I guess) you get in your Tesla.  How long does it take to recharge after a max distance drive?  Does Tesla publish any information about distance degradation while towing?
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    tcmeyerstcmeyers Member Posts: 12
    falcon1970 said:
    I'm curious about what kind of mileage (miles per full charge, I guess) you get in your Tesla.  How long does it take to recharge after a max distance drive?  Does Tesla publish any information about distance degradation while towing?
    Falcon1970, it varies due to a bunch of reasons but we easily get 250 miles if fully charged to start with. The charging speed depends on the charger, but Tesla Supercharger stations normally charge at about 300 miles per hour, that is to say, 1/3 hr (20 minutes) to add 100 miles if range to the car. There are new chargers being installed that do 1000 mi/hr. 

    We’ve found that it’s kind of nice to stop every 2 or 3 hours to charge, walk around, eat, stretch while the car is charging. There are Superchargers spaced out all over so this is practical. 

    The car Itself actually shows where they are and does range and charge-stop planning as you go, but here is a map someone is hosting...
    https://supercharge.info/map

    Regarding pulling a trailer, we haven’t done it yet, but we do expect a significant range loss. The various test videos I’ve seen indicate that it’s the wind resistance (the square of the speed and shape of the trailer) rather than the weight that affects the reduction of range. So, teardrop body and slowing down helps a lot. The weight makes less difference because if you are going level it isn’t an issue, and if you are going uphill it’s harder but when you head DOWNHILL rather than braking, the energy is put back into the battery, re-increasing your range on the way down. 

    But I won’t know for myself til we try. 
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    tcmeyerstcmeyers Member Posts: 12
    Denny16 said:
    The top of the TaB400 is closer to 18 inches, so a 16-inch trailer ball height is going to be a little low.  The correct ball size is 2-inches.  Hope this helps.
    Cheers
    Thanks, Denny16. It’s actually 16.75 to the top of the 2” ball, so about 1-1/4 too low. I wonder if that’s close enough. 
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    Denny16Denny16 Member Posts: 5,445
    edited February 2020
    If you have a stock TaB400, not the Boondock model, you might be pretty close to level.  If the trailer hitch is within 1/2 inch or so of being level, you should be OK.  I remeasured, and with stock tires, the hitch is closer to 17 inches.  You can lower the trailer by switching the tires to a lower profile ratio to lower the trailer by around 1/2 inch, which for on road pulling should be OK.  The TaBs have a fairly high ground clearance, the 400 tail sweeps up quite a bit, so bottoming out the back should not be an issue.

      Take your car to a TaB dealer and check it out, see how the trailer sits, once you add the TaB tounge weight, the car might drop down a little.  The closer you have the trailer level, the better it will tow.  You can normally have a +/- 1/2 inch here to play with, and still be OK.
    Cheers
    2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock,  Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
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    tcmeyerstcmeyers Member Posts: 12
    Denny16 said:
    If you have a stock TaB400, not the Boondock model, you might be pretty close to level.  If the trailer hitch is within 1/2 inch or so of being level, you should be OK.  I remeasured, and with stock tires, the hitch is closer to 17 inches.  You can lower the trailer by switching the tires to a lower profile ratio to lower the trailer by around 1/2 inch, which for on road pulling should be OK.  The TaBs have a fairly high ground clearance, the 400 tail sweeps up quite a bit, so bottoming out the back should not be an issue.

      Take your car to a TaB dealer and check it out, see how the trailer sits, once you add the TaB tounge weight, the car might drop down a little.  The closer you have the trailer level, the better it will tow.  You can normally have a +/- 1/2 inch here to play with, and still be OK.
    Cheers
    Thank you so much! The Tesla actually has a self adjusting air suspension, so regardless of tongue weight up to 500 lbs, the rear end won’t sink. Yesterday I visited a T@B dealer, and they seemed nice, maybe they will let me try hooking up. Their lot is petty uneven though! Nothing is level... but I’m sure we could figure it out.
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    falcon1970falcon1970 Member Posts: 755
    @tcmeyers That map is interesting.  I had no idea there were so many charging stations around the country--even a bunch out here in the middle nowhere Texas.
    Drag is the thing that decreases mileage. And frontal area and speed are major factors in creating drag.  I have found my sweet spot for speed to be right at 60 mph.  Mileage drops quickly above that and doesn't really increase any below that.  That would be different for different tow vehicles though.  
    One of these days I'm going to tuft the TAB and have someone video my progress down the highway--just to see where the turbulence (drag production) is around the critter.  I suspect the fan shrouds create a lot of turbulence and that probably never smooths out going down the back of the trailer.  Even if it does smooth out the laminar airflow probably breaks right at the aft end of the body--and that is more drag.
    Maybe an air dam in front of the fans and a tail extension at the back would be good.  Some interesting research here.  I wonder if there is a Nobel prize in physics for aerodynamic trailers?
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    dutsmillerdutsmiller Member Posts: 26
    edited February 2020
    Very good explanation of towing with an EV.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4W-P5aCWJs

    TLDR:  They are great at towing, but range takes an enormous hit.
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    CbusguyCbusguy Member Posts: 771
    edited February 2020
    From fastlane car guys an actual test run......but they were drafting another vehicle,driving at 50 mph and no AC 

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhX3BmhJXc8

    I am gonna guess without the shenanigans the range would be sub 100 miles.   Followed by a 2 hour charge time.    They had 2 percent battery left

    the Ike gauntlet on fastlane 

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVSHIZihESk 

    If you are not on a time table it looks just fine,   but stopping every couple of hours for a couple of hours to charge isn't in my schedule.
    2009 GMC Canyon,   3.7 liter 
    2020 320s Boondock lite, With Lots of mods
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    tcmeyerstcmeyers Member Posts: 12
    dutsmiller said:
    Very good explanation of towing with an EV.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4W-P5aCWJs

    TLDR:  They are great at towing, but range takes an enormous hit.
    Dutsmiller,

    Thanks, great video. That’s exactly why I’m trying to find the lightest, most streamlined trailer that I can still be comfortable in! Some of the teardrops have drag that is 1/4 of the same box-shaped trailers. I certainly don’t intend to pull 5000 lbs. :-)
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    tcmeyerstcmeyers Member Posts: 12
    Cbusguy said:
    From fastlane car guys an actual test run......but they were drafting another vehicle for some of it, 

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhX3BmhJXc8

    Looks like flat land 110 mile range towing a trailer.   I am gonna guess without the drafting the range would be sub 100 miles.
    Here’s another, 3 part with hill climb, including concerns, extra charging stop:

    https://youtu.be/rB2E-nQE7iY

    https://youtu.be/RpExnUKxH7g

    https://youtu.be/0T4zMSHDQ5k
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    CbusguyCbusguy Member Posts: 771
    edited February 2020
    @tcmeyers on the travel video,  they had a leg they could only travel 63 mph max to reach the next charging station.    they are averaging less than 100 mile range.   towing a trailer the size of a t@g.   Drive an hour charge an 1 hour and 1/2.   they dont sound thrilled.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjklex38lkQ&t=834s

    the guy bricked his car at the charging station,   epic.
    2009 GMC Canyon,   3.7 liter 
    2020 320s Boondock lite, With Lots of mods
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    tcmeyerstcmeyers Member Posts: 12
    Cbusguy said:
    @tcmeyers on the travel video,  they had a leg they could only travel 63 mph max to reach the next charging station.    they are averaging less than 100 mile range.   towing a trailer the size of a t@g.   Drive an hour charge an 1 hour and 1/2.   they dont sound thrilled.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjklex38lkQ&t=834s

    the guy bricked his car at the charging station,   epic.
    Understood. That trailer is not as low-drag as the T@B though. I don’t have a problem going 60, around here that’s usually the limit for anything with more than two axels. I’m not willing to concede defeat until I actually try it! It might make a difference in how I feel about it because I have free supercharging for life (part of the package when I bought the car) and I don’t mind stopping often to stretch my legs. At least I don’t mind yet. 

    Those guys seem to have an attitude problem. “Bricked” means totally disabled. That was just a display reboot, takes less that a minute and you can still drive the car. 
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    jgram2jgram2 Member Posts: 1,522
    Tag size but not your average teardrop!  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAfyBiRL46Y the Polydrop
    John, Judi, Guinness & OD in PDX
    T@Bit@t 2015 S Max Outback, ‘18 V6 4Runner 


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    tcmeyerstcmeyers Member Posts: 12
    jgram2 said:
    Tag size but not your average teardrop!  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAfyBiRL46Y the Polydrop
    Jgram2, 
    Yes, that is another we are considering. It’s super light and amusingly it looks like the Cybertruck (the Polydrop came first) and even with all flat surfaces it’s suppose to be low drag (.3 or something). If we decide we can do without a bathroom and don’t mind cooking outside, that is the one we will get. I’ve already been in touch with them, and our restrictive ball height is fine. They have a backlog and 4 month lead time though! Super insulated though. 
    Thanks for suggesting!
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    jgram2jgram2 Member Posts: 1,522
    You’re welcome @tcmeyers-I kept waiting for someone to push a button and “transform” it into a 2 story trailer! The Tesla/Polydrop would be an eye catching duo.
    John, Judi, Guinness & OD in PDX
    T@Bit@t 2015 S Max Outback, ‘18 V6 4Runner 


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    tcmeyerstcmeyers Member Posts: 12
    edited February 2020
    jgram2 said:
    You’re welcome @tcmeyers-I kept waiting for someone to push a button and “transform” it into a 2 story trailer! The Tesla/Polydrop would be an eye catching duo.
    @jgram2
    Speaking of transforming, I thought this was cool, on the other end of the spectrum of luxury...

    https://youtu.be/A6eDn8ZAOXU
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    jgram2jgram2 Member Posts: 1,522
    Yes, the Alto definitely has a cool factor going for it but We’re happy with our cute factor. Someone mentioned a long wait time for them too.
    John, Judi, Guinness & OD in PDX
    T@Bit@t 2015 S Max Outback, ‘18 V6 4Runner 


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    tcmeyerstcmeyers Member Posts: 12
    jgram2 said:
    Yes, the Alto definitely has a cool factor going for it but We’re happy with our cute factor. Someone mentioned a long wait time for them too.
    I agree, the T@Bs are super cute! Top contender for our choice. 
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    Denny16Denny16 Member Posts: 5,445
    And you get a larger galley area and a real,shower/toilet space, lacking in the Condo.  We looked at the Safari Condo before getting our TaB400, we made the right choice for us.
    Cheers
    2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock,  Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
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    N7SHG_HamN7SHG_Ham Member Posts: 1,261
    I think if a Tab 400 was put in a wind tunnel, it wouldn't fare nearly as well as most imagine on the drag.I actually think for size and weight they tow pretty hard....

    Be interested in hearing the range if you get a 400 behind the Tesla-x
    2019 T@B 400 Boondock Lite
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    Tundra57Tundra57 Member Posts: 640
    Is it possible to get air drag details for various campers ours included?
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    TampakayakerTampakayaker Member Posts: 554
    tcmeyers said:
    jgram2 said:
    You’re welcome @tcmeyers-I kept waiting for someone to push a button and “transform” it into a 2 story trailer! The Tesla/Polydrop would be an eye catching duo.
    @jgram2
    Speaking of transforming, I thought this was cool, on the other end of the spectrum of luxury...

    https://youtu.be/A6eDn8ZAOXU
    That is impressive.
    Bet it's not cheap, and with all the stretching/moving parts and getting beat up on rough roads, I wonder how waterproof it will be after a few trips
    2006 RAM 1500 4 door, 2016 T@B 320 MAX S 
    Tampa FL
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    dutsmillerdutsmiller Member Posts: 26
    While the Tab 400 is teardrop in shape, it is significantly taller than a traditional teardrop trailer.  As such, it catches much more wind.

    I drive a Tacoma TRD Off-Road which lacks the front air dam of the TRD Sport (in the interest of improved ground clearance).  People have said that piece of plastic is worth 1mpg (which is about 5%) improved mpg.  Now, expand on that with a trailer that is several feet taller/wider than the tow vehicle.

    Think of it this way, if the hubcaps of the model 3 are worth 3.4%, you can imagine what towing a 3000 lb. sail is going to do.  (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a30169467/tesla-model-3s-aero-wheel-covers-efficiency-test/)

    I like to keep up with traffic and generally tow at 70mph.  The Tacoma goes from ~19mpg down (without the Tab 400) to ~10mpg.  We end up using my wife's Grand Cherokee which drops from ~25mpg to ~13mpg (the gas tank on the GC is 26 gallons vs. the Tacoma's 21 which also helps).

    For efficient, convenient  (i.e. not stopping every 2 hours to charge for an hour) long distance towing, a diesel is probably the best thing currently available.  In 10 years, with all the new EV advancements in the pipeline, this will no longer be the case.

    That said, if your trips are usually only 100 miles or so, the X would be a fantastic solution and would be easily rechargeable via a campground 30-50amp outlet.  The Tesla Supercharger network will definitely get you everywhere you need to go in a pinch, I just think it could get annoying if it were a routine exercise.
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    gspdxgspdx Member Posts: 208
    @tcmeyers - I would try renting a small trailer for a test.  Try something like https://rvshare.com/

    Go someplace close for a weekend.  Based on the above comments I would say someplace within 75-100 miles of where you are picking it up and just see what happens.  

    It would really be great to hear your results.  At some point I think the internal combustion engine will fade away and we need early adopters (like you) to help figure things out and make it possible.  
    2019 T@B 400 BDL
    2018 Ford F-150 2.7L Ecoboost with tow package
    PNW
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    tcmeyerstcmeyers Member Posts: 12
    Tundra57 said:
    Is it possible to get air drag details for various campers ours included?
    That would sure be great!
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    tcmeyerstcmeyers Member Posts: 12
    @Denny16 @N7SHG_Ham @dutsmiller @gspdx thank you all, very helpful. Yes, renting to test the experience sounds like a must-do. The selection isn’t great right around here, but maybe renting near the ultimate destination is really the thing to do, all the range issues considered! But nearby is this, which would be a good test, I think:
    https://rvshare.com/rvs/details/1188727
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    danp212danp212 Member Posts: 44
    edited February 2020
    At one point last year I was very interested in the idea of pulling a T@B with a Tesla. The electric car experience is so awesome! And if you happen to get a Tesla vehicle that came with free supercharging for life, the idea that you could go on trips and pay nothing for gas was extremely appealing. 

     One of the big factors I discovered that is most of the Tesla Supercharging stations in our area would not be friendly to pulling in with a trailer hooked up (they are small parking spots in a lot, not exactly pull-through style). So in using one of these superchargers locally you would almost certainly have to unhook the trailer before charging, leaving it sitting on its own for a brief period nearby.

    I believe a lot of superchargers are a pull-through parking design, but I have seen several others outside of our area that are still the pull-in parking spots. Given that you would be charging a lot more frequently when towing with roughly a 50% reduction in range, it might become more than a slight hassle having to constantly unhook & re-attach the trailer so often on trips. 

    Though with that being said, what might make that process less of a hassle would be having an electric tongue jack, rather than the manual crank which most T@B's come with. Again if you had free supercharging, this process when necessary might be worth it......

    The real breakthrough for towing with an electric car will be when there is a travel trailer made with a Tesla style high capacity battery onboard, so when you take your trailer on a long road trip, you get to utilize power from the trailer battery to greatly extend your driving range. Plus when you are at the campsite you would have wayyyy more onboard electricity available then you should ever need camping. 

    Someone needs to make one of these!!!!
    2017 T@B Max S
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    pthomas745pthomas745 Moderator Posts: 3,649
    Well, I have to ask:  will the Tesla battery also keep the fridge cold while on the road? ;)
    A couple of years ago, @MuttonChops found a "flow illustrator" tool on the web and plugged the Tab into it and came back with some graphics of the flow around the trailer and numbers on drag, etc.  Might be helpful in this discussion.


    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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