400 Clam Shell

plchacker

My wife and I love our 2018 CS-S. However we are looking for something a bit more conducive to full timing. The 400 is nearly a perfect solution. There are two issues. First and most important, we love the outdoor kitchen of the CS. It keeps the heat out. This is a real issue in the south. Second is the bed size. It is so close but not quite long enough. Are there any hopes of a 400 CS with a slightly larger bed? 

Sharon_is_SAM

I think the rear of the 400 would be too high.  Maybe you need to just set up a portable camp kitchen and cook outside the 400!

plchacker

It would take a redesign like the differences in the 320. But the effort would be worthwhile. Unless you have used a CS I doubt you would understand.  We actually cook, not just reheat food. Having a prep sink, counter space and access to the refrigerator are all important. 

Sharon_is_SAM

We have a CS and we do cook from the galley kitchen.  I know a lot of 320 and 400 owners still do their cooking outside.  Many don’t like to steam up their sleeping area😀

Denny16

We cook in our galley on the TaB400, and do not steam up the cabin.  Crack open the window behind the stove (recommended by NuCamp), and crack open the back window, then turn on the ceiling fan, and Bob’s your Uncle.

 Another option I am considering is mounting a small exhaust fan/hood over the stove.
cheers

Marceline

plchacker said:

My wife and I love our 2018 CS-S. However we are looking for something a bit more conducive to full timing. The 400 is nearly a perfect solution. There are two issues. First and most important, we love the outdoor kitchen of the CS. It keeps the heat out. This is a real issue in the south. Second is the bed size. It is so close but not quite long enough. Are there any hopes of a 400 CS with a slightly larger bed? 

The closest thing I've seen is an Rpod with a clamshell but I seem to remember that it's not really a full galley back there.

manny

I also have a CS-S and love it..  since nucamp is not making the the clamshell without the bath …   how about a remake for the cs-s  make it about 2 ft longer with bigger bed …   I think it would be a big seller..   Also the cs-s has a lot more storage space then a 320...   my 2 cents … 

Michael49

We have a 400. We love the indoor kitchen. When cooking things that are odor heavy we cook outdoors on our propane grill or Coleman oven - best of both worlds

Tabnero

instead of the classic lift for the rear kitchen, they could design a passenger side, pull out kitchen that would then end up under an awning. Lots of designs like this used in overland style rigs

Denny16

I had similar thought, one could enlarge the pax side storage door, and add a slide out that fits under the bed, to get an outdoor stove/sink arrangement, with some additional storage.
cheers

fiddlefoot

We have a CS S and only wish they would make it one foot wider and one foot taller.  My husband is 6'3" and would like to sleep straight and stand in the bath.

plchacker

Michael49 said:

We have a 400. We love the indoor kitchen. When cooking things that are odor heavy we cook outdoors on our propane grill or Coleman oven - best of both worlds

That is just it, you are either forced to cook inside or carry a bunch of other stuff...  It is not really the best of both worlds.  Unless you have actually used a clam shell I doubt you would understand.  We live on the Alabama Coast.  From what I've read, the AC in the 400 has a hard enough time keeping up with 95+ Heat and 85+ humidity.  Thanks for the reply though. 

plchacker

Tabnero said:

instead of the classic lift for the rear kitchen, they could design a passenger side, pull out kitchen that would then end up under an awning. Lots of designs like this used in overland style rigs

I have wondered if this might be a good solution.  Many of the outdoor kitchens I have seen on other RV's are really lame attempts.  They usually lack something major, stove, refrigerator, or sink, sometimes two of the above.  If correctly done I do believe this could work. 

plchacker

Marceline said:

plchacker said:

My wife and I love our 2018 CS-S. However we are looking for something a bit more conducive to full timing. The 400 is nearly a perfect solution. There are two issues. First and most important, we love the outdoor kitchen of the CS. It keeps the heat out. This is a real issue in the south. Second is the bed size. It is so close but not quite long enough. Are there any hopes of a 400 CS with a slightly larger bed? 

The closest thing I've seen is an Rpod with a clamshell but I seem to remember that it's not really a full galley back there.

It is not.  That is the issue with most of the outdoor "kitchens."  NuCamp did an amazing job with the CS-S.  Building a 400 size CS-S would likely require a completely new interior design.  I get it.  My wish list would include: a workable shower, decent gray and black tanks, One bed, standard queen or even a full, as long as it has the length correct, dinette for at least two, solar with good battery storage, a larger refrigerator would be nice, microwave, or toaster oven, of course the rest of the goodies that NuCamp seems to include on most everything they build and finally a good AC and heater.  (Alde is fine.) 

plchacker

Sharon_is_SAM said:

I think the rear of the 400 would be too high.  Maybe you need to just set up a portable camp kitchen and cook outside the 400!

If you look at the difference between the standard 320, and the CS-S you can see that they actually are different designs,  The CS-S is a bit lower in the back.  I'm not really wanting to carry all the extra gear needed to setup an extra kitchen.  That is a waste of space.  I see that argument from a lot of people who claim to love their inside kitchen.  The truth is they almost to the person always cook outside. 

peterac50

Its interesting. Everyone has there own preferences based on their past experience. We own a 400 and love it. We generally eat breakfast inside, particularly when the morning is chilly and we are eating a light breakfast. We also love to eat at a picnic table and travel with a shelter to protect us from bugs and rain. We also travel with a grill. That allows me to cook the greasy stuff - burgers, steaks, chicken, bacon, etc - outside on the picnic table while my wife uses the indoor kitchen to prepare the rest of the meal inside which she brings outside for us to eat. I just add the protein and we are good to go. No muss or fuss. It works for us. We feel like we get the best of both worlds - both indoor and outdoor. When it is hot, humid, or unpleasant, I can still grill and bring it into the camper where we can enjoy the air conditioner. We have a 2019 with a cool cat which works superbly. So, to each his own. We all camp in unique ways. I love the fact that Nucamp provides alternative designs where one can select what works best for them. It might be fun to imagine a 400 with an outdoor kitchen - if there is a market, my sense is they might explore one at some point, but that is a business and marketing decision. Its also fun to hear the variety of ways people love to camp.

Sharon_is_SAM

We find that the CS stove burners are low output.  We bring a butane tabletop burner and a very small grill and a very nice camp kitchen that shelters under our awning.  I can certainly understand the need for a larger camper with full timing in your future @plchacker.

Marceline

Sharon_is_SAM said:

We find that the CS stove burners are low output. 

I haven’t noticed that problem, even at altitude (7500ft). On mine the left has a higher output than the right, by design. 

Sharon_is_SAM

We have cooktop model MO0911 and the outputs are 3700 and 5900 BTUs.  Average home stove simmer burners are around 3000 - 5000 BTUs.  We found that adding a cheap 9,000 BTU tabletop burner really speeded up our cook time.  

gspdx

I really liked the idea of the outdoor kitchen, but the other features the 400 offered offset that for us.  As was mentioned above, we carry a camp stove and prefer to cook outside.  In reality we don't carry a bunch of extra stuff.  A camp stove and a propane bottle is all.  I do carry an additional hose to connect directly to the 20 gal propane tank if needed.

plchacker

Sharon_is_SAM said:

We find that the CS stove burners are low output.  We bring a butane tabletop burner and a very small grill and a very nice camp kitchen that shelters under our awning.  I can certainly understand the need for a larger camper with full timing in your future @plchacker.

We do not do a lot of high heat cooking.  About the only thing we fry is fish, and we do not do that often.  The burners are a little slow, but I would hope for a slightly bigger cook-top in the 400.  I don't see this as an exact copy of the current CS.  I appreciate your input.  Again, we are looking for something a little more suited to full time/extended trips.  We both love to cook.  Funny thing, the limitations of our CS actually work in our favor compared to our home kitchen.  We tend to cook too much food at home.     

plchacker

gspdx said:

I really liked the idea of the outdoor kitchen, but the other features the 400 offered offset that for us.  As was mentioned above, we carry a camp stove and prefer to cook outside.  In reality we don't carry a bunch of extra stuff.  A camp stove and a propane bottle is all.  I do carry an additional hose to connect directly to the 20 gal propane tank if needed.

Where do you do your prep work?  How much prep do you do?  I cook a lot of Cajun food.  Gumbo for instance has a lot of slicing and dicing, and slow, long cook times.  Same with chili, and other soups and stews.  I love those because once the prep is done, we have food for several meals, with very little extra work.  The holy trinity, (celery, bell pepper, onion,) make a great start to quite a few good meals.  That requires chopping, and it works best outside.  Saute that in butter with a little garlic and some cayan pepper and its game on. Rice is a staple too. (lots of steam)  I don't attempt to blacken fish inside even at home.  I guess this is as much a cultural choice as anything. 

Does that clear my position a bit? 

plchacker

peterac50 said:

Its interesting. Everyone has there own preferences based on their past experience. We own a 400 and love it. We generally eat breakfast inside, particularly when the morning is chilly and we are eating a light breakfast. We also love to eat at a picnic table and travel with a shelter to protect us from bugs and rain. We also travel with a grill. That allows me to cook the greasy stuff - burgers, steaks, chicken, bacon, etc - outside on the picnic table while my wife uses the indoor kitchen to prepare the rest of the meal inside which she brings outside for us to eat. I just add the protein and we are good to go. No muss or fuss. It works for us. We feel like we get the best of both worlds - both indoor and outdoor. When it is hot, humid, or unpleasant, I can still grill and bring it into the camper where we can enjoy the air conditioner. We have a 2019 with a cool cat which works superbly. So, to each his own. We all camp in unique ways. I love the fact that Nucamp provides alternative designs where one can select what works best for them. It might be fun to imagine a 400 with an outdoor kitchen - if there is a market, my sense is they might explore one at some point, but that is a business and marketing decision. Its also fun to hear the variety of ways people love to camp.

Looking at your map, you haven't been to the deep south.  Granted, we do have to deal with bugs from time to time.  On the Gulf Coast we deal with a lot of rain too. But that is normal for us, as is 95+ degree heat 85% humidity. 

You do have both indoor and outdoor, with indoor being your primary.  I want outdoor as the primary.  I come from the land where spices and prep rule.  I highly doubt you would want to boil shrimp/mudbugs inside. Or blacken fish etc. By the way, A hot plate inside is a real possibility, the best of both worlds works both ways.. 

My goal is to limit how much extra stuff we have to carry.  This really is a cultural thing.  I don't grill on gas and I don't put sugar in my cornbread.  Chili has no beans, and you blacken red fish.  We are serious about food.  Makes for happy neighbors. 

peterac50

plchacker said:

Looking at your map, you haven't been to the deep south.  Granted, we do have to deal with bugs from time to time.  On the Gulf Coast we deal with a lot of rain too. But that is normal for us, as is 95+ degree heat 85% humidity.  

You do have both indoor and outdoor, with indoor being your primary.  I want outdoor as the primary.  I come from the land where spices and prep rule.  I highly doubt you would want to boil shrimp/mudbugs inside. Or blacken fish etc. By the way, A hot plate inside is a real possibility, the best of both worlds works both ways..  

My goal is to limit how much extra stuff we have to carry.  This really is a cultural thing.  I don't grill on gas and I don't put sugar in my cornbread.  Chili has no beans, and you blacken red fish.  We are serious about food.  Makes for happy neighbors.  

We've camped in Georgia and South Carolina, but not the deep south just yet. I love your description of the food you love to cook. You're right I would not want to undertake that kind of meal inside. We travel with a Coleman stove not just a grill, so I suppose we could mount such a meal outside, but I agree it would not be easy on a regular basis. I appreciate the cultural differences - Nucamp is based in Ohio and its designers may not have considered the regional appeal that a fully equipped outdoor kitchen in a 400 might have for many potential customers. Really enjoying the threads in this post. Particularly being stuck at home and not able to travel for awhile and meet other tabbers.

rfuss928

There have been discussions comparing the advantages of inside/outside kitchens on the T@B forums since the introduction of the clamshell.  We are totally outside kitchen folks and love our CS for all of its efficiency inside and out.  That said,  a longer bed would be the number one item on our (my) wish list.
I always thought a bit wider clamshell would be a nice solution.  It would solve side to side sleeping length and an even bigger kitchen as a bonus.  It seems this would be possible utilizing many of the existing 320CS panels but with a wider roof and hatch.  Six to twelve inches additional width would make a big difference everywhere.
There is a T@G XL.  How about a 320CS XL ??

gspdx

plchacker said:

gspdx said:

I really liked the idea of the outdoor kitchen, but the other features the 400 offered offset that for us.  As was mentioned above, we carry a camp stove and prefer to cook outside.  In reality we don't carry a bunch of extra stuff.  A camp stove and a propane bottle is all.  I do carry an additional hose to connect directly to the 20 gal propane tank if needed.

Where do you do your prep work?  How much prep do you do?  I cook a lot of Cajun food.  Gumbo for instance has a lot of slicing and dicing, and slow, long cook times.  Same with chili, and other soups and stews.  I love those because once the prep is done, we have food for several meals, with very little extra work.  The holy trinity, (celery, bell pepper, onion,) make a great start to quite a few good meals.  That requires chopping, and it works best outside.  Saute that in butter with a little garlic and some cayan pepper and its game on. Rice is a staple too. (lots of steam)  I don't attempt to blacken fish inside even at home.  I guess this is as much a cultural choice as anything. 

Does that clear my position a bit? 

We pretty much do everything outside.  We don't do a lot of long term camping yet as I haven't retired, so 3-4 days is about all we need when it comes to food.

We do try to prep our food as much as we can before we go though, so that helps out a lot.  So we don't do all of our prep from scratch when we are camping.  Usually we have been out on a hike or something, so by the time we get back, get a shower and have a beer don't want to spend too much time cooking!

I do really like the clam shell kitchen and that is what originally got me interested in this type of camper.  But having a bed that doesn't need to be converted and a separate table, with the bathroom and kitchen area, won the day.

If Nucamp ever designed a 400 with an outdoor kitchen I would be interested to see it.plchacker said:

peterac50 said:

Its interesting. Everyone has there own preferences based on their past experience. We own a 400 and love it. We generally eat breakfast inside, particularly when the morning is chilly and we are eating a light breakfast. We also love to eat at a picnic table and travel with a shelter to protect us from bugs and rain. We also travel with a grill. That allows me to cook the greasy stuff - burgers, steaks, chicken, bacon, etc - outside on the picnic table while my wife uses the indoor kitchen to prepare the rest of the meal inside which she brings outside for us to eat. I just add the protein and we are good to go. No muss or fuss. It works for us. We feel like we get the best of both worlds - both indoor and outdoor. When it is hot, humid, or unpleasant, I can still grill and bring it into the camper where we can enjoy the air conditioner. We have a 2019 with a cool cat which works superbly. So, to each his own. We all camp in unique ways. I love the fact that Nucamp provides alternative designs where one can select what works best for them. It might be fun to imagine a 400 with an outdoor kitchen - if there is a market, my sense is they might explore one at some point, but that is a business and marketing decision. Its also fun to hear the variety of ways people love to camp.

Looking at your map, you haven't been to the deep south.  Granted, we do have to deal with bugs from time to time.  On the Gulf Coast we deal with a lot of rain too. But that is normal for us, as is 95+ degree heat 85% humidity. 

You do have both indoor and outdoor, with indoor being your primary.  I want outdoor as the primary.  I come from the land where spices and prep rule.  I highly doubt you would want to boil shrimp/mudbugs inside. Or blacken fish etc. By the way, A hot plate inside is a real possibility, the best of both worlds works both ways.. 

My goal is to limit how much extra stuff we have to carry.  This really is a cultural thing.  I don't grill on gas and I don't put sugar in my cornbread.  Chili has no beans, and you blacken red fish.  We are serious about food.  Makes for happy neighbors. 

I lived in Southern Mississippi when I was younger and I get you about the heat and humidity!  It would really make a difference. 

All you can eat catfish!!!  Now I'm hungry.

We live in the Pacific Northwest and when it is hot to look for cooler temps  - sometimes heading to the Oregon or Washington coast or even north to the North Cascades. 

I never take a grill or charcoal - if I need to do cooking other than the stove I cook over the fire.  Forgot - we do take a grate for that.  More stuff!  We don't try to make everything we would make at home.  Try to pick food solutions that provide some flexibility.  Usually take a batch of my wife's home made spaghetti sauce.  She also premakes a breakfast "hash" - sweet potatoes, apples, onions, bacon or sausage, usually some greens, all sauteed with some spices.  Heat up and throw a couple of eggs on top.

Anyway - it's really about compromises.  We didn't want a big camper and didn't want to take everything either.  

plchacker

rfuss928 said:

There have been discussions comparing the advantages of inside/outside kitchens on the T@B forums since the introduction of the clamshell.  We are totally outside kitchen folks and love our CS for all of its efficiency inside and out.  That said,  a longer bed would be the number one item on our (my) wish list.
I always thought a bit wider clamshell would be a nice solution.  It would solve side to side sleeping length and an even bigger kitchen as a bonus.  It seems this would be possible utilizing many of the existing 320CS panels but with a wider roof and hatch.  Six to twelve inches additional width would make a big difference everywhere.
There is a T@G XL.  How about a 320CS XL ??

That is food for thought.   I know this is a game of inches, Two inches higher would be wonderful. I'm sure though that there are plenty guys out there where that would be an inch too short...  However, six inches wider would certainly produce a bed that would meet full size or even queen size dimensions.  It would also add a great deal of storage space.  Also, if they would split the bed area so that you could roll up a topper and still have an area for a dinette that would be simply grand.  Even without the added height that would be a great idea.    

plchacker

gspdx said:

plchacker said:

gspdx said:

I really liked the idea of the outdoor kitchen, but the other features the 400 offered offset that for us.  As was mentioned above, we carry a camp stove and prefer to cook outside.  In reality we don't carry a bunch of extra stuff.  A camp stove and a propane bottle is all.  I do carry an additional hose to connect directly to the 20 gal propane tank if needed.

Where do you do your prep work?  How much prep do you do?  I cook a lot of Cajun food.  Gumbo for instance has a lot of slicing and dicing, and slow, long cook times.  Same with chili, and other soups and stews.  I love those because once the prep is done, we have food for several meals, with very little extra work.  The holy trinity, (celery, bell pepper, onion,) make a great start to quite a few good meals.  That requires chopping, and it works best outside.  Saute that in butter with a little garlic and some cayan pepper and its game on. Rice is a staple too. (lots of steam)  I don't attempt to blacken fish inside even at home.  I guess this is as much a cultural choice as anything. 

Does that clear my position a bit? 

We pretty much do everything outside.  We don't do a lot of long term camping yet as I haven't retired, so 3-4 days is about all we need when it comes to food.

We do try to prep our food as much as we can before we go though, so that helps out a lot.  So we don't do all of our prep from scratch when we are camping.  Usually we have been out on a hike or something, so by the time we get back, get a shower and have a beer don't want to spend too much time cooking!

I do really like the clam shell kitchen and that is what originally got me interested in this type of camper.  But having a bed that doesn't need to be converted and a separate table, with the bathroom and kitchen area, won the day.

If Nucamp ever designed a 400 with an outdoor kitchen I would be interested to see it.plchacker said:

peterac50 said:

Its interesting. Everyone has there own preferences based on their past experience. We own a 400 and love it. We generally eat breakfast inside, particularly when the morning is chilly and we are eating a light breakfast. We also love to eat at a picnic table and travel with a shelter to protect us from bugs and rain. We also travel with a grill. That allows me to cook the greasy stuff - burgers, steaks, chicken, bacon, etc - outside on the picnic table while my wife uses the indoor kitchen to prepare the rest of the meal inside which she brings outside for us to eat. I just add the protein and we are good to go. No muss or fuss. It works for us. We feel like we get the best of both worlds - both indoor and outdoor. When it is hot, humid, or unpleasant, I can still grill and bring it into the camper where we can enjoy the air conditioner. We have a 2019 with a cool cat which works superbly. So, to each his own. We all camp in unique ways. I love the fact that Nucamp provides alternative designs where one can select what works best for them. It might be fun to imagine a 400 with an outdoor kitchen - if there is a market, my sense is they might explore one at some point, but that is a business and marketing decision. Its also fun to hear the variety of ways people love to camp.

Looking at your map, you haven't been to the deep south.  Granted, we do have to deal with bugs from time to time.  On the Gulf Coast we deal with a lot of rain too. But that is normal for us, as is 95+ degree heat 85% humidity. 

You do have both indoor and outdoor, with indoor being your primary.  I want outdoor as the primary.  I come from the land where spices and prep rule.  I highly doubt you would want to boil shrimp/mudbugs inside. Or blacken fish etc. By the way, A hot plate inside is a real possibility, the best of both worlds works both ways.. 

My goal is to limit how much extra stuff we have to carry.  This really is a cultural thing.  I don't grill on gas and I don't put sugar in my cornbread.  Chili has no beans, and you blacken red fish.  We are serious about food.  Makes for happy neighbors. 

I lived in Southern Mississippi when I was younger and I get you about the heat and humidity!  It would really make a difference. 

All you can eat catfish!!!  Now I'm hungry.

We live in the Pacific Northwest and when it is hot to look for cooler temps  - sometimes heading to the Oregon or Washington coast or even north to the North Cascades. 

I never take a grill or charcoal - if I need to do cooking other than the stove I cook over the fire.  Forgot - we do take a grate for that.  More stuff!  We don't try to make everything we would make at home.  Try to pick food solutions that provide some flexibility.  Usually take a batch of my wife's home made spaghetti sauce.  She also premakes a breakfast "hash" - sweet potatoes, apples, onions, bacon or sausage, usually some greens, all sauteed with some spices.  Heat up and throw a couple of eggs on top.

Anyway - it's really about compromises.  We didn't want a big camper and didn't want to take everything either.  

Hey that hash sounds amazing!! Do you precook the sweet potatoes? We will certainly try that the next time out.  I agree about a big camper.  The 400 is pushing our limits size wise.  Again I'm looking for a more long term camper.  I would love to stay with NuCamp because this has been an amazing experience so far.  The only other Camper I have thought about is the Retro RV's smaller offerings - 18-20' range.  They do not have the outside kitchen though. 

rfuss928

plchacker said:

Also, if they would split the bed area so that you could roll up a topper and still have an area for a dinette that would be simply grand.  Even without the added height that would be a great idea.    

I always thought it was curious that the split cushions disappeared as the T@B evolved.  Rolling up a topper has been our SOP since the beginning.

Roll the topper, bedding and all, to the rear below the cabinets

Put the front cushions in the seat position and pop up the table.

A nice full size table for two with lengthwise lounge seating optional.
Have fun!
Bob

gspdx

Hey that hash sounds amazing!! Do you precook the sweet potatoes? We will certainly try that the next time out.  I agree about a big camper.  The 400 is pushing our limits size wise.  Again I'm looking for a more long term camper.  I would love to stay with NuCamp because this has been an amazing experience so far.  The only other Camper I have thought about is the Retro RV's smaller offerings - 18-20' range.  They do not have the outside kitchen though. 

My wife does bake the potatoes before we go.  Really speeds up the process when we are out.  She also adds some cayenne pepper and smoked paprika.  Sometimes adds mushrooms, whatever.  Even top it off with avocado when we have them.   

I looked at the Retro RV campers too and a friend of mine bought one.  It was really clear the difference in quality between the Retro and the Nucamp products.

Maybe Nucamp could design a 400 where the side wall where the Kitchen is does something really cool and can be "moved" outside.  Not sure what that would look like. Anything that moves would add weight I imagine.

nbhms

This is the only thing that has kept my wife and I from buying a Nucamp.  We found a dealer within driving distance and looked them over.  We are out-door cookers, and having that stuff inside is a waste of space (to us).  We thought we'd found the perfect camper in the 320 CS, but after lying down in one at the dealer, we realized there's no way I'd be able to sleep in it "as is".  I've looked on these forums and there are some inventive workarounds, but they all have their drawbacks.  And if we're going to spend that kind of money, it's not to "make due", it's to be happy.  If we're going to "make due", we'll stick with our Oztent RV and save our money . . . 

A 320 CS-XL or a 400 CS would be exactly what we are looking for, I'd be at a dealer tomorrow with money hanging out of my pockets.