Towing my T@B with my Sea Kayak! Is it possible?

DEBinIN

Hi, 

This is my first post on the T@B forum, and I have a huge dilemma. This question involves towing a T@B 320 and carrying a 17" sea kayak on my car!

I am also new to camping with a trailer.  I have been wanting a 320 for about 7 years when I saw one on display at Canoecopia in Madison, WI.  I recently purchased a 2013 T@B 320 w/o a bathroom in near perfect condition and am so delighted.  I am used to primitive and kayak tent camping, so using a portable toilet and outdoor shower are fine for me right now.  This camper is a test to see how I like it.  If I stay with it, I may upgrade at some point.  So far, I have done short weekend camping trips (without a kayak) to state parks in Indiana and Illinois with gentle sloping highways with my Forester Limited 2010. I have only been on county roads with no more than a 55-60mph limit and the mileage was around 12mph.  I can tell that it is making my Forester really work hard when going up a even small grade.  I want to be able to go wherever I want with my T@B and not having the terrain determine where I can go.

Yesterday I drove about 70 miles on I-70 to the other side of Indianapolis to the T@B dealership to inspect, service, and add a couple items including a Jack-It rack for my bike.  On the interstate using cruise control at 65mph, my mileage was 9.9, and when I drove through Indy in a 55mph zone it was 11.2.  I am now in the process of trading my Forester for a vehicle that can better handle the tow. 

When the T@B guy showed me where the Jack-It bike rack would be located, I said that I hoped it wouldn't interfere with my 17' kayak.  When I mentioned that, he told me that he was concerned whether such a long kayak would interfere with the camper, let alone, the added bike rack.  It is really important that I can take my 17" sea kayak as well as a second boat for smaller water and rivers even if I have to put my bike inside the camper and secure it somehow.  Right now, I am driving a 2010 Forester.  On the driver's side there is my Thule Hullavator and on the left side is a Thule Glide and Set cradle set for a second kayaks. 

Yesterday after dropping off the T@B, I drove to a large Subaru dealership close by.  I drove a Subaru 2018 touring Outback, which already had the tow package installed, and was in my budget.  I would just need to figure out the crossbar solution. Also, I would have to buy an adapter to adapt my 7 prong to the 4 prong plug for the T@B.  Also would have to adapt from the 1 1/2" ball to a 2" ball for towing.  I don't think the Outback would solve the problem of my kayak sticking out too far in the back.  Plus, if I were to purchase anything outside the dealership, like those adaptors, the Subaru salesperson said it would void my warranty!

Also, when looking at the Outbacks, I am concerned about their roof rails being able  to accommodate two kayaks side-by-side, but the rails do not stand up giving room between the crossbar and the top of the car.  I need crossbars that can extend past the roof rails on pedestal type mounts so that I have extra width to mount two kayaks side by side.  The crossbars on the Outbacks that were factory installed, fit exactly inside the rails giving no extra width I would need to allow for the Hullavator as well as a cradle set for a second kayak.  I don't get why the outback racks are so limiting on the Outback which is the official car for
canoeing/kayaking/camping. I would appreciate the advice from others that kayak and pull a trailor at the same time. 

So, I welcome all the suggestions you can give.  I think one of my solutions would be a small truck with a cap for the back a midsize SUV that would have more length to the roof to allow me to mount my kayaks up farther toward the front of the vehicle.  I just don't want anything massive, because I have a narrow driveway.  I will grieve if I have to leave the Subaru behind. 

My camper will be at the dealer for at least a week.  I may drive over later this week with my kayak and just see, but just by looking at the photos, the T@B guy doesn't think it would work.

I am about to push the panic button!  Too much to figure out on my own!!!

Happy camping,
Deb Walters



  

VictoriaP

Skip the Outback, look at the Ascent instead if you’re sticking with Subaru. The newest Outback (the only one truly suitable for towing a Tab) is still at the minimum end of towing and cargo requirements for these trailers. If you want to carry a bike AND 2 kayaks, that’s definitely mid size SUV or light truck level.

The Ascent looks big, drives relatively small. I was surprised at how much it feels like driving the Outback.

DEBinIN

OK, thank you!

Marceline

Given the amount of gear you like to haul maybe a pickup truck is a better solution? Or maybe a popup camper (would eliminate the overhang problem).

Verna

Hi, @DEBinIN. I’m Verna, and I just moved from Indy down to the Columbus area out in the country. 

When I had my 2015 Toyota Tacoma V6 4x4 with tow package, I had rails installed on my camper shell as it was being manufactured,  I had a 10’ Wilderness Systems 100 sit-on-top fishing kayak and it fit fine on the truck while towing the T@B S Max.

Here’s a photo so you can tell how much a 10’ hangs over the rear. I really think a 17’ kayak may be too long, and the bike rack is not going to work. You might be able to get the foam kayak holders to extend the kayak over the tow vehicle roof. The truck was 20’ long. 

Just an example of another tow vehicle with a kayak, towing a T@B

pthomas745

For the 4 pin to 7 pin adapter "voiding your warranty", that is just wrong.  The dealer would have to prove the aftermarket part was the cause of any warranty claim.  This is covered endlessly in many thousands of posts.

https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0138-auto-warranties-routine-maintenance

https://www.ncconsumer.org/news-articles-eg/making-the-most-of-your-auto-warranty.html

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/businesspersons-guide-federal-warranty-law#Magnuson-Moss

DEBinIN

OK, thanks for the info.  I thought of looking at the Tacoma.  It could be that the kayaks could be moved forward more on the truck so as not to have as much hanging off the back.  Also thanks for the links to those who sent me links!!!  

Denny16

It seems 4-pin to 7-pin adapters need added wire connections to the TV not found on the 4-pin itself (brakemand Trailer 12vdc charging circuit.  They do not have a brake connection without the additional wiring.  As long as yiu are adding wires, I would get a hard wired  7-pin plug installed instead, that can provide power to the trailer, and work with brakes or a wireless brake controller (needs the 12VDC circuit.  You can not legally tow a TaB 320/400 without brakes in most states.
cheers

DEBinIN

Thank you!!!

Sharon_is_SAM

@Denny16, many TVs with 4 pins can be adapted to a 7 pin, then you just add a charge and brake wire.  And, if you use a RF brake controller, you do not need a brake wire either.  

Denny16

Ah, good to know.  I went looking for one once, could not find one.  Thanks.
cheers

Tampakayaker

Denny16 said:

Ah, good to know.  I went looking for one once, could not find one.  Thanks.
cheers

Amazon and E Trailer both have the 4 to 7 adapters.  Like Sharon is Sam said, you add the extra wires.

tabiphile

To safely carry your boats you need a TV with a longer roof line. All of the Subbies have short spacing between roof rails that will prevent you from shifting the hull forward adequately. To tow and carry the boats the boat will need to sit much farther forward than you currently carry it. A 17 foot boat will sit well forward of the windshield on a Tacoma in order to clear the T@B when you are hauling it. Your best options (if you purchase a truck) are to install a roof mount rack over the drivers doors on the cab (not over the rear doors) and another set on the bed cap if you buy have one. This will allow you to shift the hulls far enough forward. You might also look at the Thule bed rack system if you don't plan to add a cap. Don't forget to consider the spacing when you are turning hard backing or on hills when you decide how far back to position the boat. 
Do not forget to look at the maximum roof rating for any factory rack sets. Most of them are not suitable to carry multiple boats along with cycles.

ChanW

Rack Warehouse carries all sorts of adapters for roof racks, but I agree with the consensus above, a bigger vehicle with more towing capacity is in order. Adding a larger ball isn't necessarily going to do what the dealer promised, it all depends on the capacity of the hitch.

The more I tow with our 4cyl Tacoma, the more I wish it had the bigger engine! It's fine as long as we're not going uphill, and at altitude, and with a headwind! It'll still do sixty, but it's in third gear. With 90,000mi on the engine, makes me worry.

Tampakayaker

Larger/taller tow vehicle, and a tall full sized roof rack like the ones plumbers/carpenters use that extend from the tail gate and over the cab of the truck.

TabberJohn

DEBinIN said:

When I mentioned that, he told me that he was concerned whether such a long kayak would interfere with the camper, let alone, the added bike rack.  It is really important that I can take my 17" sea kayak as well as a second boat for smaller water and rivers even if I have to put my bike inside the camper and secure it somehow.  Right now, I am driving a 2010 Forester.  On the driver's side there is my Thule Hullavator and on the left side is a Thule Glide and Set cradle set for a second kayaks.  

Well that's plenty of toys to bring along.  The 17 footer appears to be the main issue.
Do you plan on extended open water sea kayaking or something more sedate when traveling with the camper?
If the latter then why not a shorter boat? It will be lighter for one thing and it won't dictate your TV choices.

Travelin3D

@DEBinIN, hello and welcome. Given the amount of external gear you want to carry, I would agree with the comments above that you should look toward a pickup with a properly fitted rack system. If you're set on a Subaru, I think the only option would be the Ascent and I'll share some of my experience with it.

All Ascents above base level (Premium, Limited and Touring) have a 5000#/500# towing capacity. The factory tow package includes both 7 and 4-pin connectors and the 12V charge line. I found the stock hitch to be almost spot-on level for towing my 320 BDL. With the addition of a hitch tightener I've found towing to be solid and quiet. 

If you order one, however, my advice is to go with the Premium level and DO NOT order either of the option packages available. I went with the lesser package #12 which includes Reverse Automatic Braking (RAB), Power Tailgate and Keyless/Pushbutton Start. [The other package #14 has a these plus moonroof, navigation and 20" wheels.]

The RAB is the most annoying feature. In normal driving it can be handy when you're backing up or out of a spot, etc., but when you have the trailer attached and shift into reverse, it thinks you're about to hit something, starts a warning beep and will slam on the brakes. You can temporarily disable this feature from the info touchscreen but the next time you need to back up you will have to do it again. The power tailgate and keyless entry have also been associated with draining the battery, especially if you leave the tailgate open for extended periods, like at a campsite (this has happened to me) and has been discussed a lot on the Ascent Forum.

Overall though, I am happy with it. The ride is comfortable, it tows well and there is lots of cargo room. We recently went from NY to T@Bazona and back with no problems from either the car or trailer. Mileage ranged from a high of 19 mpg to a low of 11 bucking a headwind across Texas, usually averaging about 15-17.

Good luck with your decision.

Deb55

As a person with a garage filled with all types and sizes of canoes and kayaks, I understand your dilemma! Have you considered a good quality inflatable kayak to bring along when you're traveling? I have several inflatables--2 kayaks, one tandem canoe, and a standup paddleboard. They aren't pool toys--they're rugged, high quality construction, and very easy to travel with. If that's not an option for you, I personally would look into pick up trucks and moving the boat forward on the cab. 

DougH

@Deb55 ; I have the Advanced Elements 1012-R inflatable and backbone, and while fairly stable, I wouldn't use it on really open water.  But complete agreement... easy to transport and quick to get ready.  Is there an inflatable or folding craft equivalent to @DEBinIN's seventeen foot sea kayak?

Shrinking down to a non-sea kayak pretty much limits interacting with whales, sharks, and the like, but if it helps, we have pretty large gators in our Texas rivers and lakes.

Denny16

Not sure if they are available anymore, but I had a Fold-a-Boat, which was like a skin over aluminum frame sea kayak, that seated two.  The rudder was on foot pedals, and it had a sailing kit also.  The floor board was the backbone, and folded up to collapse, to popped down to stiffen up the rig.  Great little boat, about 16-18 feet long, I think they are no longer made,

The closet boat I could find was a Parkboats Park (folding) Canoe 170, https://shopweeboats.com/products/pakboats-pakcanoe-170-folding-canoe?variant=31687419787&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIk4PQu7OQ6AIVCdtkCh0pcgjTEAQYDiABEgL49_D_BwE
cheers

Deb55

@DougH in doing a very quick search, I can't find any 17 ft inflatables, or hybrid frame/inflatables. Sea Eagle makes some very rugged IKs, especially in the "X" series. I'm not one to ask about ocean kayaking, though, since my boating is whitewater river running. I suspect that a lot of the high end IKs can be used in ocean boating. A few of the IKs were in the 15ft range. It's worth searching around for a good one, if that's the direction that @DEBinIN wants to try. It's really an easy way to take your boats plus all your other gear when camping! 

jgram2

@DEBinIN, this thread is interesting if not helpful, photos too.  https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/116717#Comment_116717

T@Balong

I carry two 17 ft sea kayaks, and two bikes on the roof of my Jeep Cherokee while pulling my T@B 320.   I used to have a Subaru Forester but upgraded to the Jeep Cherokee with factory tow package.   Never regretted it!

rcuomo

We pretty much carry our Sea Eagle 380x every time we tow the T@B. Fits easily in the pickup bed and I use the 120v outlet in the bed for quick inflation. Handles very well in most water conditions and can carry three adults if necessary. 

Homebodyatheart

Welcome to the Tab family @DEBinIN! Personally I’d avoid the Ascent like the plague, as we had one and I traded it in after one short trip towing. There were a number of issues I had, but most importantly the Ascent manual states in the towing section to only use genuine Subaru parts. At that time the only drop hitch that Subaru made and that came with the tow package was not long enough for towing my tab. It was only 2 inch drop, and I needed a 10 inch to make it work. Would that void the warranty? I did not want to take the chance! It also towed miserably, some owners have this issue, others have no problems. I continue to tow my 2017 320S with a gently used Highlander and couldn’t be happier! Good luck!

Cherokee

Any hitch dealer can get you an extension for your hitch - move the kayak up as far as you can on the rack, position the trailer and measure how much you need. It may be a cheep practical solution. I use on just to clear my rear mounted tire:

jgram2

Be aware though: eTrailer Expert Reply: The use of a hitch extender reduces the tongue weight capacityof the trailer hitch by 50 percent. So if the trailer hitch is rated for 1,000 pounds tongue weight it would be reduced to just 500 pounds tongue weight capacity when using an extension.Jan 5, 2016

VictoriaP

Homebodyatheart said:

Welcome to the Tab family @DEBinIN! Personally I’d avoid the Ascent like the plague, as we had one and I traded it in after one short trip towing. There were a number of issues I had, but most importantly the Ascent manual states in the towing section to only use genuine Subaru parts. At that time the only drop hitch that Subaru made and that came with the tow package was not long enough for towing my tab. It was only 2 inch drop, and I needed a 10 inch to make it work. Would that void the warranty? I did not want to take the chance! It also towed miserably, some owners have this issue, others have no problems. I continue to tow my 2017 320S with a gently used Highlander and couldn’t be happier! Good luck!

FYI...Subaru no longer has a specific stock ball and insert for the Ascent as part of their tow package, so that particular potential warranty issue is no longer a problem, if it ever really was one. The dealer can provide inserts for any hitch height necessary. I had a lengthy discussion and personally verified this with Michael’s Subaru in Bellevue, WA in February and it’s also been noted by other customers on the Ascent forums.

The majority seem happy with their Ascents for towing, but yes, some owners have reported similar issues. I think it’s important to understand Subaru is not a towing-centric brand, and there are probably better vehicles out there for anyone doing extensive towing. Which won’t change the minds of Subaru loyalists, I know...it hasn’t changed mine either, LOL!

Cherokee

jgram2 said:

Be aware though: eTrailer Expert Reply: The use of a hitch extender reduces the tongue weight capacityof the trailer hitch by 50 percent. So if the trailer hitch is rated for 1,000 pounds tongue weight it would be reduced to just 500 pounds tongue weight capacity when using an extension.Jan 5, 2016

Good point, in my case the hitch is rated for 11,000 lbs, the 320's tongue weight is rated at 200lbs according to NuCamp. However, I have no idea what his Subaru's hitch is rated for. An extension was the only thing I could think of short of replacing the TW, or going with smaller kayaks.

DEBinIN

Thank you to all for your suggestions that helped me make a decision on what vehicle to buy that would enable me to carry sea kayaks while towing my 2013 T@B 320.  I traded my Subaru Forester for a Tacoma, and it has made a world of difference!  I just wanted to share the result of your comments and suggestions!  They all provided me with new options to consider and led me to choosing the Tacoma.

gulfarea

Thats a very nice looking rig! Art