About 1000 miles on my 2020 Tab 400, and got a hot brake drum today

warbler_road

On a short trip 70 miles from home, at a gas station after a long down grade I had 115 F on the driver's side wheel, 180 F on the right.

Emergency pin not pulled; no skidding or anything. Just real hot and excess brake dust on the wheel hub. Wow. 

Fortunately the place I bought it is on the 2-hour trip home. We're camping by the New River for three nights and this is putting a real damper on things.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

CrabTab

Usually a brake drum should be around 150-180 degrees Fahrenheit during normal operation. The 115 would indicate the drivers side may need adjustment. Temps constantly over 250 or so would lead to brake fading until they cool back down.

How are you measuring your drum temps?

pthomas745

Run through your set up for your brake controller, also.

warbler_road

Thanks folks  ... it is the discrepancy that worried me. Taking the temp with an instant read laser thermometer,  but it's a cheap one. Will setup my tekonsha p3 again tomorrow. 

rh5555

You mention a long down grade.  Were you applying brakes throughout that descent?  If so, I agree with @CrabTab and you should check out your driver side brake adjustment.  If you haven't been actively braking recently, then your hubs should barely be hot at all.  If they are, then they're dragging an need adjustment. 

N7SHG_Ham

One of mine runs hotter too, havent looked into it yet, but I suspect one isn't adjusted enough. Your temps aren't too hot yet, so don't let it put too much of a damper on trip.

Brake controller being out of adjustment won't cause uneven temps, I doubt that is your issue.

warbler_road

Recollecting, we drove through about 8-10" of water on the passenger side early in the trip during a downpour yesterday.  Could that have messed up that side?

Yes I noticed the discrepancy after a long downhill in blue ridge mountains.  But I always downshift and never ride the brakes.

Also, heard a scrape srcraaape scraaaaape sound from that side when braking after that.

Very much appreciate this input!

tabiphile

For peace of mind and safety you should probably adjust the brakes. nuCamp recommends adjusting them after a few hundred break-in miles... The process is simple assuming that you have the proper tools. You will need a proper jack, jack stands and a brake adjuster tool. https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_7769041?cid=paidsearch_shopping_dcoe_google&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0pLp7-XW6gIVTNbACh0m3wCoEAQYBCABEgJrJfD_BwE
Jack up the trailer using the correct jacking points.
Position your jack stands so that they do not interfere with your access to the back of the brake drum.
Locate and remove the access plug cover.
Spin the wheel slowly. All you are trying to do is feel/hear the brakes rubbing inside the hub. 
With the brake adjusting tool you will reach into the hub opening and make a few turns on the adjuster wheel to tighten the brakes. The objective is to get the brakes to drag very slightly and not enough to keep the wheel from turning. You will try to get both sides to about the same adjustment. Turn the wheel while you adjust to make sure of the results. Adjust to the tightest spot on the drum.
On a scale of 1 to 5 with five being a super technical job requiring special tools and skills, adjusting the brakes is about a 1.5...you can and should do it.
Here is a related recent thread with a video that shows the process.
https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/140488#Comment_140488 
Do not use a screw driver as shown the video. A screw driver can damage the soft metal adjuster nut.

warbler_road

Tabiphile, many thanks!! I think I can handle a 1.5 level project 😂

Denny16

Also check your wheel bearings, having a hot wheel can also be caused by a failing wheel bearing, which is overheating.
cheers

ChrisFix

CrabTab said:

Usually a brake drum should be around 150-180 degrees Fahrenheit during normal operation. The 115 would indicate the drivers side may need adjustment. Temps constantly over 250 or so would lead to brake fading until they cool back down.

How are you measuring your drum temps?

On my 2021 T@B 400 Boondock I see 115 degrees on both brake drums when I do routine mid-trip measurements...
I think that is correct for the T@B.

CrabTab

 @ChrisFix

In the original post Warbler_Road was talking about running a long downhill grade. From the available information, I assumed they were braking during most of the run when I attempted to make a diagnosis online (in a later post they noted that had not been using the brakes much). 

I agree that under normal driving conditions, with little braking, that 115 degrees is reasonable on drum brakes.

tabiphile

warbler_road said:

Tabiphile, many thanks!! I think I can handle a 1.5 level project 😂

You've got this!!...Next on your list, packing the wheels bearings. You'll need a decent lug wrench/breaker bar/socket and torque wrench for that. You won't need to do the bearings until you have driven quite a few more miles or at the end of the season.


@CrabTab , note that there were scraping noises heard from one side. The temperature is not the red flag. 

DougH

Fate Unbound did an excellent video on repacking axles with / without the EZLube fitting should anyone wish to take that on instead of letting a mobile RV mechanic or the dealership do the job.

https://youtu.be/2FujcxRQSp0

warbler_road

tabiphile said:

warbler_road said:

Tabiphile, many thanks!! I think I can handle a 1.5 level project 😂

You've got this!!...Next on your list, packing the wheels bearings. You'll need a decent lug wrench/breaker bar/socket and torque wrench for that. You won't need to do the bearings until you have driven quite a few more miles or at the end of the season.


@CrabTab , note that there were scraping noises heard from one side. The temperature is not the red flag. 

What's the mileage for a repack job? I doubt we're close to that yet though.

Safely home now with no issues, and I already bought some jack stands to do the adjustment. And it turns out the scraping sound was coming from the rear drum brake of my Tacoma! :-/ Sigh.


Thanks again for all your help.

Denny16

I have seen 6Kand 12K mikes, and/or annually, which ever comes first.  That said, some have gone longer than. 12K miles, and I have my trailer bearings repacked annually, as I do not do 6K miles in a year.
cheers

Sharon_is_SAM

@warbler_road - the factory recommendation is to repack wheel bearings every 12,000 miles or annually - whichever comes first.

qhumberd

Just completed the bearing inspection and repack and brake adjustment on our T@B 400 BDL 2019. We bought it used and the first owner had taken it about 3,600 miles; it was built in Oct 2018. I had not done this type of work in years so followed the instructions from Dexter axle as well as watching some You Tube videos. Note that they are not all consistent so beware. The Dexter instructions are considered the final word so beware any YouTuber. Dexter has their own video in the service manual attached below and covers brakes and bearing procedures. Clearly not as engaging as Fate Unbound. On my BDL the EZ lube was installed and I decided to ignore it and do a manual repack, which is messy but otherwise just a bit tedious. The removal and disassembly were per the manual and easy, once you figure how to angle the BDL tire out from the plastic wheel housing. Helps to have the tire about 2-3 inches off the ground so it can move and tilt some. After cleaning and packing grease in the bearings and putting it all back on, the issue that a lot of instructions and videos miss is prominent in the Dexter manual, and that is pre loading the bearing to 50 ft lbs on re installation while slowly turning the drum, then backing off the nut about 1/4 turn, then finger tightening and finding the spot where the retainer clip/ cotter pin will fit back on, so that the clip/pin  and the nut will move slightly when you are done. I found that doing this I can feel just a very slight amount of end play in the bearing, and I think this is what you want. The other issue is installing the new inner bearing seal, which can be easily damaged and per Dexter needs some RTV silicone sealant around the rim at the time of installation. I suspect this is so the EZ lube system will not leak out into the drum. I used a wood block to seat the new seal with some careful hammer taps.

Then I did the brake adjustment per the same manual

So I can see why some would not want to fool with this procedure just to save 100-150 bucks. In fact if done wrong you can create a dangerous situation like a wheel coming off... So just be aware of the risks.

Not sure I know when to use the EZ lube system. It seems to take a lot of grease per wheel and also creates a lot of pressure to force the grease from the zerk to the inner bearing and then back forward to the outer bearing. Unless you are 100% sure of your rear seal, you could force grease into the drum and basically ruin the assembly. Plus you are not actually looking at your bearings and races, so you can't be sure they have not sustained damage. Anyone else know the rationale for EZ lube?

Thanks

warbler_road

Thank you, thank you, thank you, especially for the manual!  I started adjusting today but was interrupted by a thunderstorm.  I am finding it difficult to determine when I have loosened the shoes enough as I spin the wheels. Etrailer says "10 clicks" but that seems excessive. Lots of noises coming from in there.

I think I just had a passenger-side brake that was too tight and taking most of the braking load, and want to correct that. Tackle it tomorrow ...

:-)

tabiphile

An arbitrary ten clicks will probably not work. Every brake is going to be slightly different and certainly if there was a maladjustment as a starting point. I would tighten the brakes to make sure they engage the drum and then back them off so that they barely scrape as they are turned. That should be your setting. 

qhumberd

@warbler_road I found it easier to tighten the brakes first till they were hard to turn. Turn the star wheel UP (some one said "up tight and out of sight" which is what you are doing. When it was tight so the drum was hard to move, I started down 1 click at a time and moved the drum each time, and it was easy to feel it getting looser and finally when it spun with no resistance. Then I tighten up a click and could feel a slight drag, and that was it for me. Did a test drive and could immediately feel the brakes were engaging better and evenly. Glad I did it as it feels more secure now and my brake controller seems to work with little delay. Good luck with yours!

warbler_road

If anyone's still following my brakes adventure, the saga continues. Standard adjustment procedure did not resolve the heat difference; 90 F difference in sides after three mile test ride.

I determined that brake "hum" was NOT coming from the cool (left) side when the manual override on the tekonsha was pressed.

Eureka! Electrical problem.

So I took off both hubs just to look at them. The hot (right) one was blackened and dirty inside, as if it had been doing all the braking. Other side was much cleaner, but with some pink grease splatter inside. Interestingly, the lower clip securing the magnet wires to the actuator arm had come off. When I put it back on, I got brake hum again when pressing the override on the tekonsha. Perhaps it had been flapping loose and the wires inside had frayed? Putting it back had put the frayed wires back into contact? Not exactly "fixed" ...

Adjusted again, took another 3-mile test drive and the right is still hotter, but not as much. Gonna back off a few more clicks on the adjuster wheel on that side and try it again when it cools.

All this on a quite expensive camper, my first, with 1300 miles on it.

Just weird. My dealer and every nearby trailer place has a 30-day backlog because of The Virus.

Thoughts welcome.

Left (cool) side):


Right (hot) side:

qhumberd

I am worried to see any grease outside the axle and bearing in that drum. I do not think that should be there. The Dexter manual mentions a dab on the anchor pin I believe, but nothing near the magnet. Could that have come from the rear seal?

Mis placed wire is also concerning. Hope someone can advise as I do not have those skills.

Bayliss

@warbler_road, I have the same concerns as posted by @qhumberd.

How did the bearing seal look?  Since you have a 2020 400 model, you may want to have it checked under warranty.  There definitely should not be grease on the brake magnet.  To me, it looks like someone either re-packed the bearings using the EZ-lube and maybe exerted too much pressure, possibly damaging the seal, or put too much grease on the spindle.  You also should be sure that the electrical connection is fixed.

Have you tried a small trailer sales/repair shop to have everything checked out?  Not an RV repair shop, but a company that sells and repairs small flatbed trailers?  Regardless, you should make nuCamp aware of the issue and send them photos.  See what they say about a warranty repair.

warbler_road

I am with you guys. I was surprised to see grease inside the drum and thought maybe someone just got overzealous with the grease gun. The seal didn't look obviously bad.

Here's another image of the opened hub, unfortunately slightly blurry, showing the amount of grease.

I definitely plan to make a warranty claim and have already contacted NuCamp. I also have a good small trailer place right up the road, but they said they are swamped for the next month because of COVID. My dealer's farther away and even worse off.

Left (cool) side:

Bayliss

Thanks for the additional photo, @warbler_road.  Very helpful.  I'm no expert on brakes, but there does appear to be an issue with the seal.  When you get it checked, be sure to take a photo of the bearing for your records and maybe share if it shows any serious wear.  I will be following this thread since it will be interesting to see how this turns out.  It is another good learning opportunity for all of us.  Good luck!

tabiphile

Good sequence of photos'. So, the cool side is the one that has grease in the drum. That makes sense. The drum will not generate heat if the brake cannot grab. The fix is doing a quicky brake job to remove the grease from the hub and pads and then replace the rear bearing seal. Lot's of brake cleaner and clean rags will do the job. 
None of this should be necessary with so few miles but here is the text book example of the problem with the Dexter hub. If someone gets carried away with the grease gun this is exactly what happens. If you did not do this then the dealership did...warranty repair is their obligation. 
The other wheel is probably still only in need of a bit of adjustment but who knows. After seeing this it also should be taken apart. Good luck. What a pity to have to deal with this on a new rig.

warbler_road

I love this camper and we have made several wonderful trips in it so far. It's a masterpiece of design and liveability and (until now) driveability, and it's fun all the comments and attention it brings at campgrounds. Here's hoping we can get this resolved.

Will keep you posted.

warbler_road

I called Dexter Axle since they have their own warranty, and they just got back to me a day later and they will be sending me new brake assemblies to make the fix myself. Said they'd also send a new brake drum for the hot side, since it got rusty and might have been out of round.

They were of the opinion that extra grease had been added via the EZ Lube fitting without spinning the wheel, causing it to go out the back seal.

So far so good, and kudos to Dexter.

Will keep y'all posted.

Denny16

Yet another reason not to use the EZ Lube system on trailers that only get occasional use. On trailers that rack up the annual miles, a little touch up a 6K miles is fine, but not to be overdone, like one squirt from a standard grease gun, should do the trick, and as mentioned spin the wheel.  You need to jack up the trailer to do so.
cheers

qhumberd

I would agree that the EZ lube is an EZ way to mess up your brakes unless you are very careful. Glad Dexter is so responsible with their warranty.