Condensation in the T@B

Cyclonic

This discussion was created from comments split from: Alde removal.

I split this topic as it diverged into a discussion of condensation in the T@B, which folk many find valuable on its own.

Machak88

I see a definite pattern here .   Yes, I think we made a mistake not asking for the Alde not to be installed initially.  We have used a vornado we got off amazon for heating.  It solved our biggest problem with the Alde:  the three times we've used it for heating more than just water we ended up dripping with condensation.  With the vornado and a cracked window, we've slept in temperatures down in the teens with no problem (very toasty and dry).  While I would love to have the added space, I do worry about the resale impact if I wasn't able to reinstall the Alde.  We spent 35 nights in the t@b I our first season and can't wait to do more this year!

Nomad

"dripping in condensation" - Hmmmm, have been on the road for 7+ months with the Alde running at least half that time in temps down to 10 degrees and have never had so much as a bead of condensation - wonder why you do.

Machak88

 It sure PXLated, but it was a huge problem for us which we haven't had since we stopped using it...  Wonder if we did something wrong?  Anyone have a guess?  We are in Georgia with high humidity even in winter...

Great idea Mouseket@b!  Have to check that one out...

Machak88

And by dripping, I do literally mean dripping....  Beads of water on every inner surface with connection to the outside.  Walls, ceiling, inside cabinets, you name it, even though we tried leaving a window cracked for circulation.  

Machak88

By the way, the retro red vornado is a perfect match for our red t@b

Nomad

Wow - I've heard of condensation and have had some on the windows of my Jeep when overnighting but nothing like that.

Nomad

You only get that when the Alde is running? Never otherwise?

Machak88

Never otherwise....

Machak88

With vornado we stay bone dry.

mawebb

That sounds really odd as the Alde should not be adding humidity. The only thing I can think of is a potential issue with the combustion chamber vent, in which case the CO2 detector should be alarming. It might be worth having it inspected to make sure it's venting the exhaust outside properly. 

jkjenn

Being that it's Georgia, is it possible that the Alde isn't adding moisture but that the condensation is from the moisture already present in the air?

Deltaboy59

U r correct jkjenn...when u r dealing with humidity such as this... Condensation with Alde is a possibility...a probability...lol

Deltaboy59

Alde says achieving circulation such as this... Can help with condensation...Remember that vent under Fridge? Open up cabinet door... Open ceiling vent... Works for me...

Machak88

Thanks deltaboy59!  One other thought, circulation they show is blocked when the bed is down, but we leave the bed down all the time.  I'd love to hear from others if they have had condensation problems in general with the t@b.  I've heard of them on small trailers before, but not much with t@bs.  

Nomad

When the full bed is made up, the radiator vents on the passenger side bench are restricted (warm air can still escape out the end of the bed, just not as efficiently) the ones in back aren't restricted unless your bedding is blocking them. Some of us created additional vent holes at the front of the back shelf in case the front ones got blocked.
I still don't quite understand how the sealed circulation Alde could add moisture to the air. If heating the air would do it, I would think the space heater would also.

Deltaboy59

I wouldn't say condensation is a problem in my t@b , but in my experience the ceramic fan forced space heaters definitely dry the air according to my humidity indicator  and the alde mostly heats without a large drying effect...or maybe a slower drying ...

jkjenn

From my experience, anytime you interject a blowing heat, there is some drying. I have radiator heating at home-the really old kind. It feels moister because you are not blowing dry air. I don't think the Alden adds moisture, it just doesn't remove it. The condensation is a result of the already present moisture in the air and breathing of the folks sleeping combined with the changing temperature. My friend the science teacher could explain it.

USWildflowers

I'm in Georgia, camped in the T@b down to 12 degrees this past winter using the Alde, and no condensation problem. Machak88 - you mention you cracked the windows, but didn't mention the roof vent. I always open the roof vent about an inch as well as having at least one of the windows (usually front) open just a hair. I know you lose heat that way, but the Alde kept us quite comfy. We make sure the back vent is not blocked by bedding.

Machak88

Good point, and yes, we do keep the roof vent open at least an inch as well.

Ratkity

Machak88 said:

Good point, and yes, we do keep the roof vent open at least an inch as well.

In my LG Reverse TG, I'd always crack a window and have the fan lid open a tad. Walls were carpeted and roof was cloth-lined, but inside of the windows would get major condensation if I didn't have the roof vent cracked. Took the Reverse TD out in less than 30F weather without a condensation problem or freezing to death using the window/roof crack solution   

For the Alde system on my T@bitha, I've yet to test out something I just installed. Facing the reclining backseat, under the left side seat bench where the heat comes out of the back fins, I installed a usb fan that has on and off switch (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0065O6HFC?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00).  I used 3M command mini hooks to lock it in place with the fan pointed at an angle at the vent slot (wasn't sure if it was going to work, didn't want to drill holes). I ran the usb cord through an already drilled hole that ran to the right side of the seat bench and plugged in the usb fan in the electrical outlet where the Alde was plugged in for shore power source.  There was an empty spot in the electrical outlet. I have an O2 fan (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001AVMSEY?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00) if I'm not on shore power, but that is a roaming fan and not permanently installed (it roams inside and outside.. I love that little thing!).

It's raining out and I really don't want to go outside to take a picture of the setup /lazy LOL, but I'll post a picture later this weekend. Keep in mind, I have yet to test all of this out. When I run the Alde, I'll have to lift the seat up and access panel and flick on the usb fan switch to get the warm air pushed out from under the "heated" bed. It may or may not be helpful during the cold season, but it was an easily implemented (and cheap) idea. If it doesn't work, I'm not out much $$ and no holes were drilled or wires spliced.

(I know, I know!... a picture!! LOL... I promise I will later after I RTFM how to put the right sized pictures up here).

Cheers!

LARK

Machak88- We stayed 2 days at Stone Mountain in late December and had the moisture problem. Now let me set the scene.. Rained all day long for two days. Two occupants and a dog. Used Tab bathroom facilities constantly because you didn't want to go out in the rain. Alde was set on lowest setting and dial was on 2-3. Difficult to vent via fantastic fan due to blowing rain (I didn't have a vent cover). Had to vent between down pours and used towel to remove beads of water from ceiling. Sooooo, I really can't blame the Alde for the moisture. At one time I shut it off and just from body heat and dog's normal temp (Say around 103) and the small space it continued to build up moisture on the ceiling. All and all, I love my tab!

Machak88

Lark, we never used Alde on a setting higher than 2-3. Even so and even without constant rain you had experienced, we had moisture dripping on us when Aldi was in use, with both a window and the roof lid cracked open. After we started using 'Vornado', a $30 tiny space heater from Amazon, problem with moisture became history. We adore our T@Bby too

Nomad

I believe all of you but the Alde - being a closed/sealed system - isn't putting anything but heat into the air - is it that the gental flow of convection is the difference between Alde and the small fan heaters ya think?

USWildflowers

The thing that really worries me about this is that Machak88's experience seems different from everyone else, and propane puts out a lot of water vapor when burned. I know the CO and/or propane detector should go off if there was a problem with that, but at this point I'd want to bring in another CO detector to validate the installed one...

Trum@n

Moisture inside a structure with a combustion system is a warning sign for carbon monoxide. I work for the gas company & interior moisture almost always points to a blocked appliance flue. I would check the exhaust as there have been other posts about critters clogging up exhaust ports.

ironshadow

Here is what we used our 5 Wide to take the chill off at night and keep the air dry. Of course this only works where you have shore power.  It is 400 Watts. Fully automatics. Digitals temp setting. Once set. The element and the fan stop and start just like a house furnace. We have not used it in the TAB yet. But with the size it is. It will always be with us.

Nomad

I know, I'm being dense but I still don't understand the physics of why the heat/fan unit would eliminate the condensation where the Alde doesn't - More aggressive air circulation?

Machak88

PXlated, better air circulation would be our guess too.USWildflowers and Trum@n, we do not use propane at all, when we tried Alde it was on electricity only (GA state parks have electrical and water hookups). We realize that our Alde experience is rather unique, and plan to f/u with authorized dealer when we go for maintenance. Thanks so much to all for insights shared... 

Machak88

ironshadow said:

Here is what we used our 5 Wide to take the chill off at night and keep the air dry. Of course this only works where you have shore power.  It is 400 Watts. Fully automatics. Digitals temp setting. Once set. The element and the fan stop and start just like a house furnace. We have not used it in the TAB yet. But with the size it is. It will always be with us.

AWESOME! Would you mind sharin where you got it from, brand, etc?

LARK

I think Trum@n may be on to something. Make sure your dealer checks out the exhaust. Better safe than sorry!