Norcold 3-way Refrigerator 3163 - **NO POOF / Hard to light** (SOLVED!)

FuzzyYanni

Norcold 3-way Refrigerator (2009) Model 3163

PHOTOS HERE: https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZHh1pLKPQxeZs2Rs7

Hi everyone. Our fridge has a really difficult time lighting today. We have not had a problem for about 4 years now (since I replaced the spark igniter module in 2016).

Tested the stove, lit no problem. Tested the gas furnace, also produced hot air so it lit fine. The hot water heater took a few tries but lit ok as well(although it has been a bit more difficult to get going in the last 2 camping trips). Now I know the lines have propane so I proceeded to the light fridge.

The first 5-15 minutes of holding down the red button for 10-30 sec (with the usual 5 minutes wait in between attempts), I didn't even hear it attempting to start. The starter igniter is ticking properly but no *poof* combustion sound at all (!).

After holding down the red button for 1 minute steady (I know, not recommended) I didn't get any ignition at all. Weird right?

After getting braver and holding down the button longer (Maybe 1:30?) I got some louder than usual *POOF* combustion sounds so I knew there was gas in the lines.

It took about 30 minutes to get started and once lit, it stayed lit just fine. I remember this happening at our last camping trip as well so I turned it off, and switched it to electric power for an hour.

After 2 hours I attempted to switch it from electric back to gas and spent about 10 minutes futzing with it, but I couldn't get it to light. Back to electric for now until we head camping tomorrow.

I just went out and switched out the propane tank that is about 50% full (in an attempt to put a full tank in place in case the pressure difference matters. BUT once the tank hose was disconnected, it EXPELLED all the propane stored inside the lines of the trailer! WOA That's new. Took about 60 seconds to all dissipate out and that was a bit scary. Good thing no sparks nearby.

Confirmed the thermocoupler to the interrupter (see diagram ) connection is TIGHT.

QUESTION: Is the regulator a one way valve system (thereby disabling gas to escape out the entry point, once inside the trailer pipes)?

QUESTION 2:Does anyone know how to verify the regulator is functional? I can probably swap it out fairly easily if that's the issue....

QUESTION 3: (very silly question) I am trying to follow the tree diagram in The Service manual, Burner Ignites but flame won't hold (as it did light yesterday!) - should the voltage measurements be made with the selector on gas mode and the spark igniter always ticking? IO presume if it is on any other mode there will be no voltage across the terminals...

Many thanks in advance...

Yanni

  

grassgd

I cannot answer you question but I had posted this in another thread and it may work for you:

"Also I could not get the refrigerator to ignite on propane.  I was turning the gas knob to the coldest position when trying to light it without success.  Even tried using an external flame to light it while pushing the gas knob in at the max position without success.   Apparently the gas control knob was not allowing gas to flow when pushed in.  I confirmed the spark igniter was functioning and eventually tried lighting with the gas control knob in the middle position and it ignited right away every time!  Once working on propane the flame always goes out when I move the control knob to the coldest (max) position.  I have not been able to resolve the gas control knob issue yet but if you are having trouble getting it to ignite  on propane, try different positions of the gas control knob."

I have never figured out why it will not light or stay lit in the coldest position.  Once it is on, I turn the temp knob colder until the flame indicator begins to fall then back off a little.  Seem to work fine except in the coldest position.

rajamar

I know how frustrating this situation is. I had the same intermittent problem that was fixed when I tightened the thermocouple connection at the interrupter.

I don't know anything about the gas regulator and escaping gas when you disconnected the tank. When I disconnect the tank there is just a slight poof at the hose connection. Since your stove operates normally I don't think it is connected to the fridge misbehavior.

Did you go through all the steps in the troubleshooting flow chart on page 16 - especially the ones involving tight and secure connections?

Did you remove the white wires and jump the interrupter terminals to see if the relighter needs to be replaced?

If yes to the above questions then we have to deal with your not so silly question #3. The selector should definitely be in gas mode, but honestly I initially didn't know whether the safety valve button that initiates the spark clicking sound should be pressed or released. After mentally wrestling with this question for an inordinate amount of time last night I believe the test should be run with the safety valve button NOT engaged. Based on my experience described in the post linked to below and more study of the manual here's why:

The "Burner Ignites But Flame Will Not Hold" flow chart is designed to fix the very problem I was experiencing. Specifically - you press the safety valve button, hear the spark clicking, hear the POOF of the gas igniting and the green light turns on. BUT, no matter how slowly you release the button at some point the green light turns off and the burner flame is extinguished. When you said: "It took about 30 minutes to get started and once lit, it stayed lit just fine." I'm assuming you had several "Flame Will Not" hold events before the burner finally stayed lit with the button fully released. 

Since my problem was corrected by tightening the thermocouple/interrupter nut AND because the flowchart shows thermocouple replacement is the solution for 0 mV on both terminals I think it follows that the terminal voltages are meant to be measured with the safety valve button in the normal operational mode, i.e. NOT pushed in. The conclusion is that the loose nut was causing 0 mV at both terminals. (And that's why you should be checking connection security before checking voltages.) 

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

See my post here:
https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/7717/norcold-3163-3-way-refrigerator-wont-start-on-propane-what-fixed-mine-general-diagnostic-advice#latest 

FuzzyYanni

On today's camping trip the fridge lit up in propane mode no problem. Perhaps all the rattling from travel shifed some parts internally and it worked.
shakes head.

@rajamar : I had found your post before posting, read it thoroughly and was excited to test the thermocoupler/interrupter conenction at 12:30am when I saw  the post. Unfortunately my connection was tight. *THANK YOU* for that post !

rajamar

Glad it it is working for now. I would recommend you keep your volt meter with you in the T@B. The next time it misbehaves, regardless of where you are, it would only take a couple of minutes to lift up the stove (if you haven't run a sealant bead around the edge yet) and do the "Remove the wires and jump the interrupter terminals" test to see if the relighter is the culprit. If it is not, then, after replacing the white wires, get a voltage reading on the interrupter terminals. That should tell you which part has a loose external electrical connection or has intermittent internal problems and needs replacement.

FuzzyYanni

@rajamar - according to the flow chart, you must REMOVE the jumper, and reconnect the white wires before taking the voltage measurements. This is what I did but the voltage fluctuates wildly as the spark igniter is pushing current to the thermocoupler.

Am I just being dense here? 

PS Super easy to access the fridge top circuits on on a TADA (see photos) with no silicone to cut or anything difficult to remove

FuzzyYanni

UPDATE - Fridge seems to start up okay all summer as long as I start it immediately after we arrive at the campsite. When I bring it back home, if I let it settle a day, then try to light it, it takes FOREVER. 
Could be a red herring, I dunno.......

ScottG

That's funny, @FuzzyYanni--I have the same fridge and one season I had the hardest time getting it to light immediately after arrival in camp (but after leveling). I finally took to starting the fridge last, when everything else was set up, after both it and I had a little time to chill out. That was several years ago and I haven't had a problem since.

I came to the conclusion that darn fridge sensed my stress and puckered up tight...  :-)

tcassem

Hope I can resurrect this thread as I have similar problems. I have gone through the flow charts as best I could. I can see my igniter flashing but I get no poof. It's as if gas is not flowing. Valve is on, power to switch in and out, 12 volt across t1 and t3, everything tight.

Sharon_is_SAM

Open the LPG tank slowly, light the stove and let it run to expel any air, then retry.

ginsbuj

I recently had trouble lighting mine. After several attempts I gave up. Right before retiring for the night I decided to try one more time. It worked! The only thing I could think of is I had turned on the Alde for the hot water and perhaps it pulled the gas through. I usually can make it happen by just doing the stove burner but not this time. Time will tell. Mystery lies in the journey.

FuzzyYanni

A year later it's still problematic, but on our last trip, it lit up but did NOT COOL at all ! Yup, I tested, there was a flame, but no cooling was had. Works fine when back home on shore power and 12V.
Conclusion to be had hopefully in my new post here

Spoiler, I think the orifice burner is toast and likely corroded to hell

FuzzyYanni

Update July 2023 - The fridge will not light at all and for most of this year, we have been using it with DC only (and only with shore power) I looked at the air exhaust assembly in the back of the trailer and it was all covered with black soot - so this points out to some off combustion in the orifice - something is causing a lot of soot which probably accounts for the orifice not lighting.

Sadness but the fridge must come out and replacement orifice will be installed.

I have on hand the new orifice AND a propane detector (aka don't DIE !)

FuzzyYanni

Fridge removal videos and photos. I will be uploading as I go along!

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZHh1pLKPQxeZs2Rs7


Also voltage measurement quetions answered here:
https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/17432/norcold-3163-voltage-measurement-question-solved

FuzzyYanni

Success! 🔥🔥🔥🔥

New parts installed:

Relighter Board (connector for spark igniter separated from board 😭 due to insulated wire crimp too tight so when I pulled, the whole clip vame.oitnof the relighter circuit - I have since loosened all the wire crimps slightly for future repairs) board was working fine otherwise.

Spark igniter - (was fine but replaced since I had a new one on hand)

Interrupter - (was fine but replaced since I had a new one on hand)

Burner orifice -) was worn and needed at least a good cleaning, but replaced it anyway)

Thermocoupler - (was fine but replaced since I had a new one on hand)

I took apart most LP connection tubes around control board, igniter and leading to the burner box and blew out lines (low psi)

Blew out all metal heavy exhausts from burner box to back exhaust of trailer (some soot came out) with air compressor at 80psi

Most of the parts that exist in the burner box are consumables and wear out over time so it's probably good to open this every couple years and clean it just like you would with your home furnace..

ChrisK

I'm posting this hoping someone else with a poor starting fridge can try this and see if it works for you like it worked for us. Please reply if so. Our fridge is the same model as shown in the pics. It was a real pain to get started and sometimes, it just wouldn't. I'd put the dial to start and hold the igniter but nothing. I was surfing on the old webernet for a manual and stumbled upon the manual for a similar fridge by the same manufacture. On their control panel the "start" location was at the 2 o'clock position on the dial. Hmmmmm. I went out, set the dial to the 2 o'clock position and the fridge started up pretty quickly once the air was out of the lines. Now, that's my procedure every time and it starts every time. I know this will kind me but maybe this will help someone? If so, let me know.

MadCityJack

@FuzzyYanni, Thanks for the post.  I am impressed with your DIY skills. On our first dry camping trip of this season, using propane on our 3-Way Norcold, I had the usual difficulty starting the unit, but eventually I got it to work.  After numerous tries I heard a loud pop coming from the fridge.   Worried about a propane issue,  I stopped using it and put all our food stuff in our 12 v ICECO that resides in our tow vehicle.   At home the Norcold worked fine on 120 v AC.  I subsequently took it to our local NuCamp dealer who diagnosed it as a “heat sensor” problem.  The technician did not do any formal testing and I did not trust his divination strategy.   Perhaps I should have, but there is a known process for diagnosing.   So, the fridge works ok on AC and I am thinking about eventually installing a more efficient/compressor style AC/DC fridge.  Any guidance? 

FuzzyYanni

ChrisK said:

I'm posting this hoping someone else with a poor starting fridge can try this and see if it works for you like it worked for us. Please reply if so. Our fridge is the same model as shown in the pics. It was a real pain to get started and sometimes, it just wouldn't. I'd put the dial to start and hold the igniter but nothing. I was surfing on the old webernet for a manual and stumbled upon the manual for a similar fridge by the same manufacture. On their control panel the "start" location was at the 2 o'clock position on the dial. Hmmmmm. I went out, set the dial to the 2 o'clock position and the fridge started up pretty quickly once the air was out of the lines. Now, that's my procedure every time and it starts every time. I know this will kind me but maybe this will help someone? If so, let me know.

This worked for about 6 months for us - but then it really needed the cleanup - see my photos on the link https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZHh1pLKPQxeZs2Rs7 
to follow along - also there are some videos in there with me narrating the process (but not the whole process)

FuzzyYanni

MadCityJack said:

@FuzzyYanni, Thanks for the post.  I am impressed with your DIY skills. On our first dry camping trip of this season, using propane on our 3-Way Norcold, I had the usual difficulty starting the unit, but eventually I got it to work.  After numerous tries I heard a loud pop coming from the fridge.   Worried about a propane issue,  I stopped using it and put all our food stuff in our 12 v ICECO that resides in our tow vehicle.   At home the Norcold worked fine on 120 v AC.  I subsequently took it to our local NuCamp dealer who diagnosed it as a “heat sensor” problem.  The technician did not do any formal testing and I did not trust his divination strategy.   Perhaps I should have, but there is a known process for diagnosing.   So, the fridge works ok on AC and I am thinking about eventually installing a more efficient/compressor style AC/DC fridge.  Any guidance? 

The pop is normal when you have the wrong gas/oxygen mixture. You need to let the gas dissipate until its mostly air in there and try again.
Teh heat sensor is the thermocoupler which can be replaced (sometimes) without removal of fridge. Ours was fine but replaced anyway - see photos https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZHh1pLKPQxeZs2Rs7

a 12V fridge is dead easy, but will kill whatever battery you have in  a day or two - you need to decide if that is an important factor in your camping. 
|Perhaps you only camp with AC power then  - who cares about a 3 way ?
Perhaps you camp in Arizone with solar panels (we camp always under trees so solar is not going to help us)

Your call but a 12V is NOT mroe efficient in terms of electricty usage.
a 3 way uses less than 0.15Ah, a 3 way uses 3-4Ah. Maybe you mean efficient in some other way, but it will eat your batteries no matter how big.

Thats my "advice" your mileage will vary