Air Conditioning and Solar

System

This discussion was created from comments split from: Finally brought her home - 2021 T@B 400 Boondock.

DougH

@ChrisFix @Denny16 Princess Craft on YouTube just did a review of the Palomino Revolve EV-3.  Interesting nod to where RVs are headed.  No propane.  400W on roof, 300W portable to plug in as option.  One traditional 12V lead acid up front for trailer brakes with electronics to connect your truck to charge the main bank.  Main bank is four 100Ah Lithiums with a 3000+ inverter.  Powers electric fireplace / heater, the induction stove, the air conditioner, everything.  They said only powers A/C for 6-8 hours.

It's maybe half the solar and battery bank as is really needed for sustained use in some climes, but is an interesting step in the mid-sized trailer segment (<5000lbs).

Denny16

Yes, as the technology improves, and AC cab be developed to run on DC like the two-way compressor refrig, an all electric RV will be possible, complete with induction cooktop.  But we are not quite there yet.
cheers

ChrisFix

@DougH
Nice setup on the Revolve EV-3.
Big difference between this and our T@Bs is the amount of real estate available for roof solar and battery storage.
I'd love to have enough battery and inverter to run the air conditioner even for 6 hours at a time...would be great for travel days when catching some sleep at a Walmart parking lot for instance.

I was thinking about this last night, and realized if you were willing to sacrifice the underbed storage, you could easily add I'd guess up to 4 more batteries and a big inverter - there is quite a lot of room there. 
Don't know how you'd get them charged back up without plugging in or a generator though!

DougH

I sacrificed some of that space and have 3 70lb 125Ah AGM batteries, one up front, and 2 in back with the inverter.  I didn't think it advisable to add more batteries than that on just one side in the back and impact the structure with such large weight imbalance.  But as graphene and other material science improvements shrink and lighten battery technology, the next generation of campers in twenty years should have some awesome T@B sized campers.  I'm envious.  But dang it, we have digressed pretty far from awahl's maiden voyage.  It's almost like a bunch of forum patrons are elderly and gravitate towards tangents.  

Folks can make their own lithium batteries in any shape desired, but do the larger lithium battery makers produce anything half the size of a group 24, so awahl could easily scatter 500Ah in various nooks and crannies of their 400?

DougH

Too late!  Digression detected.  

jkjenn

DougH said: 

Folks can make their own lithium batteries in any shape desired, but do the larger lithium battery makers produce anything half the size of a group 24, so awahl could easily scatter 500Ah in various nooks and crannies of their 400?

Victron makes some bigger luthium batteries. I know they make up to a 300ah battery. Right now, you would be looking at adding about $1k per 100ah battery. I don't think we are yet at a place where RV makers will do that, but it wouldn't surprise me in the near future if that becomes an option.

IMHO, you would probably need 800ah of lithium to make overnight AC a possibility and then 1000w of solar to recharge. Where would you put all of that on a T@b?

The obvious opportunity for innovation is to develop a more efficient AC unit....

Gas generators are still the best option if AC is the goal, but not all CGs (many) don't let you run one overnight.

Denny16

In the newer TaB400, where the OEM battery is in the middle back, you could use the storage area under the middle part of the bed, this is forward of the OEM battery, so connections would be essy.  Also locate the new larger inverter here.  Be careful, I would add up the weight load, and contact nüCamp to make sure this part of the frame can handle the load.  Lithium batteries are lighter than a AGM, at almost 1/2 the weight, and 2/3rds the size. I think four 100amp lithium batteries in the middle and a 200 amp lithium in place of the AGM would work, weight wise, with the four additional batteries towards the front of the middle compartment, inverter at the back.

That said, I would pack the rest of your gear to the front of the trailer, as adding this weight behind the axle is going to lighten your tongue weight.  

Cheers

[Deleted User]

Denny16 said:

In the newer TaB400, where the OEM battery is in the middle back, you could use the storage area under the middle part of the bed, this is forward of the OEM battery, so connections would be essy.  Also locate the new larger inverter here.  Be careful, I would add up the weight load, and contact nüCamp to make sure this part of the frame can handle the load.  Lithium batteries are lighter than a AGM, at almost 1/2 the weight, and 2/3rds the size. I think four 100amp lithium batteries in the middle and a 200 amp lithium in place of the AGM would work, weight wise, with the four additional batteries towards the front of the middle compartment, inverter at the back.

That said, I would pack the rest of your gear to the front of the trailer, as adding this weight behind the axle is going to lighten your tongue weight.  

Cheers

Denny, thanks for reading my mind laying out thelithium batteries setup I want forr my on-order TaB 400. That said, whats your thoughts on "larger inverter" and brand of batteries? 

Denny16

Battleborn has about the best setup and has both the batteries and the 2K inverter.  I currently have the 1800 watt Pure Sine Wave Power inverter, the factory out in, and whilst it is rated at 1800 watts, more like 900 - 1100 watts continuous, so  it does not provide a full 1800 watts, that is more of a surge rating.  So be careful, check the actual continuous load rating is 2K.  Renogy and Victron also has some nice inverters and batteries, same quality as the Battleborn in tests I have seen.
cheere

jkjenn

We are finally at a point where we are starting to see several options of good quality lithium batteries and therefore, price should start to favor the consumer a little more over the next couple of years. The ones I see in use are:

Battleborn
Renogy
Victron
Lion Energy

I havent seen too many head to head comparisons and they are usually.bewtween Battleborn and Renogy. 

I would probably look into Victron if I were going to invest.

[Deleted User]

DougH said:

@ChrisFix @Denny16 Princess Craft on YouTube just did a review of the Palomino Revolve EV-3.  Interesting nod to where RVs are headed.  No propane.  400W on roof, 300W portable to plug in as option.  One traditional 12V lead acid up front for trailer brakes with electronics to connect your truck to charge the main bank.  Main bank is four 100Ah Lithiums with a 3000+ inverter.  Powers electric fireplace / heater, the induction stove, the air conditioner, everything.  They said only powers A/C for 6-8 hours.

It's maybe half the solar and battery bank as is really needed for sustained use in some climes, but is an interesting step in the mid-sized trailer segment (<5000lbs).

@DougH, thanks for the tip on Palomino E-3 Revolve. I live 30 minutes from Princess Craft and will check this out in Monday's 102-degree heat. 

Denny16

Thanks @DougH, will check it out.  400 amp hrs for a 3K inverter is not very much, should be more like 600 amps, 200 amps per 1K of inverter seems to be the recommendations I am seeing.  

Cheers

[Deleted User]

Denny16 said:

Thanks @DougH, will check it out.  400 amp hrs for a 3K inverter is not very much, should be more like 600 amps, 200 amps per 1K of inverter seems to be the recommendations I am seeing.  

Cheers

@Denny16. I agree with your numbers and there doesnt look like there's room for more batteries on PJs video. I was at princess craft briefly today but everybody was busy and I didnt get into the Revolve. Sales manager knew nothing about the revolve and said PJ had the only knowledge and Palomino had no documentation. Service manager did share that Spare Tire on back bumper was bad because bouncing down the road it touques all the back corner seams and it will start leaking. Back bumper also had hitch reciever which could more stress and overloading .Forest River plants are notorius for poor fit and poor joint calking with leaks inside and out. And from my personal experience Forest River is bad on warranty service. I believe the Spare tire was put back there because of a weight and balance problem as one chart i saw on-line showed a hitch weight of 550 and 650 and gross weights running from 4890 to 5050. 
I'm sticking with my November delivery order for 2021 TaB 400 BDK and see if I can get 400 or 600 amps in there.

DougH

@Rich1941; I do not wish to offend any Forest River RV owners, or paint the brand with too broad a brush, but we rented a Forest River and I agree completely, and wouldn't be tempted to buy anything from them, unless things change.  I just mentioned the Revolve EV-3 because it is an interesting technology transition milestone.

Speaking of which, the latest Eamon & Bec ChaiWallaChai YouTube video on building out a new van showed them adding Merlin solar panels to the top.  Having replaced a number of solar panels due to hail, the idea of an efficient but more indestructible flex panel appeals.  Could replace my three 100W flex panels with a couple of these some day to go up to 460W (to charge the T@B's current 375Ah AGMs), and they have enough odd sizes maybe I could hit 600W.  I would likely continue to limit charging to 20A due to current batteries, but would be more likely to hit that number more often.  And not having to quickly strap dense foam cushions on the roof every time there's a hail storm in the area would be sweet.

   https://www.solar-electric.com/merlin-fxt48l-solar-panel.html

I could hear my poor panels screaming out "Nooooooo" as this storm (with hail) rolled into DFW a few hours ago: