Winterizing question

Syd

I know there are two tried and true methods for winterizing - adding antifreeze or blowing out the lines. However, I was thinking (always a dangerous thing) that there might be a third way.

Would it be a good idea to simply open the low point drains, and leave them open for a week or two (or all winter) in order for the system to dry out? Or would there still be water in the system that could freeze and damage the lines?

I have no problem doing the antifreeze bit, but just (dangerously) thought this might work.

Thanks.

Verna

There are many elbows and turns that will not drain without using a bit of force, in this case, forced air. Look around the Alde and you’ll see plenty of elbows and pipes flexing to go over or under another pipe. 

Syd

@Verna - I had not thought of that. Did I mention dangerous??

Also, I absolutely LOVE this forum. I knew someone would start the helpful comments right away. 

Verna

We’re always on the lookout to help. The last thing we want is for someone to incur damages due to “thinking outside the box”.😉

Sharon_is_SAM

Unless you blow out the lines, you may have pooling of water.  I doubt that just draining everything really dries out the lines.  Blowing out the lines (Including the toilet and outside shower) should get the system dry enough to prevent plumbing leaks due to expansion.  If you doubt that your lines are dry enough, then just use antifreeze after you drain and bypass the Alde.  

Syd

@Sharon_is_SAM - I figured as much. I will definitely use antifreeze.

@Verna - Wait...there's a box??

TresK3

@Verna and @Syd:

I thought buying a tear drop WAS thinking outside the box (trailer).

KCode

Newbie question related to the winterization process: why is it necessary to bypass the Alde system when blowing out the lines and adding antifreeze? Getting ready to close up the camping season soon!

ScottG

@KCode, that question has never been clearly answered. The antifreeze shouldn't hurt the stainless steel HW tank itself. It has been suggested that using the Alde for cabin heat when the HW tank is full of antifreeze may heat the antifreeze and cause problems such as fumes or degradation (depending on the type of antifreeze). Otherwise, it's also a waste of antifreeze since even if a few drops of water that may linger in that three gallon tank it won't damage anything if it freezes.

The bypass is more important for sanitizing. Bleach can damage stainless steel, so it is better to keep it out of the HW tank. It is generally not advised to drink from a HW tank anyway, so there is no real need to sanitize it.

Finchy

@Syd, it doesn't take that long once you get the hang of it. Even after you blow out the lines it is important to get the antifreeze in the bottom of the tanks that can easily keep some pooled up water. i.e. The freshwater tank never completely empties.

ScottG

As Sharon_is_SAM implied above, it isn't necessary for your lines and tanks to be absolutely bone dry. Damage occurs when freezing water expands in a completely confined space (like a full water line).

A few drops in an otherwise empty space will have room to expand and shouldn't exert any force on the components themselves.  

Finchy

@ScottG, don't you feel it is important to have antifreeze in the clean water reservoir as the water collects where the drainage outlet is and can easily freeze and crack the component. $5 worth of antifreeze will save you a whole lot of headache.

DougH

@Finchy You can just leave that drain valve open...

Finchy

@DougH, I'm not trying to be a contrarian. I just read stories about the area around the drain valve cracking. You can't get all of the water out in my model by leaving the drain valve open. I figure I have to clean the tank out thoroughly in the Spring, why not just dump a cup or two of RV antifreeze down there.

DougH

@Finchy Good point. You'll just have to rinse it out several times in the spring.  Although once you commit to putting the pink stuff in the fresh tank, you're half way down the road to doing a traditional winterization instead of blowout method.

And aren't most on this forum contrarian?   

ScottG

Finchy said:

@ScottG, don't you feel it is important to have antifreeze in the clean water reservoir as the water collects where the drainage outlet is and can easily freeze and crack the component. $5 worth of antifreeze will save you a whole lot of headache.

That certainly is possible if the tank is not thoroughly drained. If I was really concerned I would just leave the drain open as DougH suggested.

I've gone five winters without ever putting antifreeze into my FW tank. Not saying there is anything wrong in doing so if it makes you more comfortable. After all, you will (or should) sanitize and flush the tank in the spring anyway so it really doesn't create any extra work.

Finchy

Well, maybe I won't bother this year. I only do it as someone with the same model talked about the cracking issue around the drain hole on the forum a few years ago - it worried me. Like I said, the tank does not drain all the way, even with the valve open.

Verna

@Finchy, one owner did use a spray bottle with RV Antifreeze in it to spray each of the exit gates to keep them from freezing. If you are worried, after a weather change, go out and spray and move each exit valve. The antifreeze will be fresher and your mind will be at ease. 

Actually, I think I’ve only read about two frozen shut then broken gray tank exit valves. 

ScottG

Yes, it's worth emphasizing that the gate valves on the grey and black tanks are a different story. There are crevasses in there that can trap water (even when fully drained) and potentially cause expansion damage.

Since I do fill my traps with antifreeze (definately recommended) it's a simple matter to run a little over the gate valves before buttoning everything up for good. 

tybladesmith

Numerous people have reported broken toilette water flush valves over the years, from freezing, requiring stool removal to get to the valve for replacement. FYI Some people have added an inline shutoff valve on the toilette inlet hose and disconnect the hose from the inline valve to let all the water drain away from the flush valve, after blowing out the lines.

pthomas745

I sanitized my water lines again a few weeks ago.  I'm always surprised how water will just hang inside the lines even with every drain open.  Lower the tongue, raise the tongue, tilt it to the passenger side.  Every movement brought out more water.  Or, just opening a faucet.  It released even more water because the pressure of the closed faucet held in the water.  Just like holding your finger over a straw full of liquid.