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2021 T@B 400 BD.....tongue/hitch weigh

GbertrandGbertrand Member Posts: 39
in Trailer & Towing
I know there has been numerous posts of hitch weights, but just thought I would share our findings as a comparison. When we brought home our new trailer in July it had a full propane bottle and nothing else......tongue/hitch weight was 430 lbs

 After all the inside mods completed, then loading everything from our previous 24 ft camper (and we still have one empty drawer), food, clothing, fresh water tank full, two full 5 gal drinking water bottles, and our Walker tent stored inside the camper for travel, plus the two outside aluminum storage boxes installed (and packed), again full propane bottle our weight came in at 500 lbs

Over the summer and 35 nights of boondock/dry camping, we have packed and re-packed, trying to #1 keep items easily accessible, and #2 keeping heavier items aft of the axel.......the T@B pulls like a dream, tracks very good on rough pot hole Forest Service Roads (and we have drug her on some ugly ones), plus on the highway at speeds of 110 km/hr ( ~68 miles/hr) bearly know it is behind us, as long as I don't look at the gas gauge 😩. We have not been able to get her on a scale yet to see what the total GVW is but hopefully some day.

These are the 2 aluminum tubs I installed (sorry for the poor picture......it was frosty out this morning, and looks like the camera lens frosted up😀)......BBQ, pails, outdoor games, campfire blankets, and other lighter items all stored here, and the tubs are weather proof

Looks like we have 10 days or so before the weather turns on us so hopefully get out for couple more nights, before the white stuff hits😀😀😀
 

 2021 T@B 400 BD, 2019 F-150, or 2011 F-150 (depending on conditions)

Definition of Success….”moving from failure to failure without any loss of enthusiasm” (Winston Churchill)
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  • Denny16Denny16 Member Posts: 5,431
    This is hardly a stock TaB 400 weight example with the extra weight from the additional storage boxes.  You could shift the heavy items in the trailer aft if the axle to lighten the tongue weight some.
    cheers
    2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock,  Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
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  • rhynorhyno Member Posts: 393
    edited October 2020
    The 2021 Tab 400 Boondock tongue weight is 336 lbs according to nuCamp's website. The LP tank would be about 37 lbs for 373 total tongue weight.
    By comparison, Paul the RV guy measured the Tab 400 around 360 lbs with empty LP bottle or ~380 with full LP bottle.These two are pretty close to each other.
    I have to wonder what made your tongue weight @stock when you brought it home (plus 1 full LP tank) hit 430 lbs. The aforementioned weights are 50-60 lbs lighter than what you measured! Either you scale is off or nuCamp is putting building the Tab 400s with heavier materials midyear than they were at the 2021 model year kickoff.
    *Edit - maybe they're not counting the microwave...if you have that it adds about 30 lbs to the total weight. That would account for some additional weight at the tongue but not 30 lbs worth.




    2021 T@B 400 BD, 2021 Lexus GX 460, Kansas City MO
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  • VictoriaPVictoriaP Member Posts: 1,496
    edited October 2020
    rhyno said:
    The 2021 Tab 400 Boondock tongue weight is 336 lbs according to nuCamp's website. The LP tank would be about 37 lbs for 373 total tongue weight.
    By comparison, Paul the RV guy measured the Tab 400 around 360 lbs with empty LP bottle or ~380 with full LP bottle.These two are pretty close to each other.
    I have to wonder what made your tongue weight @stock when you brought it home (plus 1 full LP tank) hit 430 lbs. The aforementioned weights are 50-60 lbs lighter than what you measured! Either you scale is off or nuCamp is putting building the Tab 400s with heavier materials midyear than they were at the 2021 model year kickoff.
    *Edit - maybe they're not counting the microwave...if you have that it adds about 30 lbs to the total weight. That would account for some additional weight at the tongue but not 30 lbs worth.

    Well, for starters, taking the weight using the jack on the scale as Paul does in the video does NOT give you a correct reading. The weight must be taken with the scale fitted into the coupler itself if you want a truly accurate measurement—which is critical if you’re close to maxing out your tongue weight limit. It’s always going to be lighter when you use the jack. (Looks like this may be backwards. Most accurate weight is at coupler, but weight at the jack would be heavier rather than lighter. See demonstration further below.) People use the jack because it’s easier than stacking up a platform to bring the scale to the correct height under the coupler, and if you’re towing with plenty of capacity to spare (as you should be), it’s not a big deal to be off by 20-30 pounds.

    Here is a video of how the Sherline scale is supposed to be used. Notice the wood stacked below the scale: https://www.etrailer.com/tv-review-sherline-trailer-tongue-weight-scale-5780.aspx

    And secondly, never trust the manufacturer (regardless of who it is) to provide accurate tongue weights. Most of them provide one weight for a base model with no options. Almost inevitably the actual tongue weight when weighed correctly does not match the specs.
    2019 320s BD Lite, white with blue (“Haven”)
    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6r (unsafe 200lb tongue weight limit until 2020 models)
    2020 Subaru Outback XT
    Pacific NW
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  • GbertrandGbertrand Member Posts: 39
    You are 100% correct @VictoriaP, the scale must be under the 2" ball coupler for a correct/accurate weight.......both my measurements were taken with scale under the coupler, l remember watching the video last spring and thinking to myself that the weight would be much lighter under the jack, and not a good place to take it

    Yes @rhyno, you are correct that the web site states 336 lbs......my scale is brand new, came with a calibration certificate, so I am fairly confident it is close, and no we do not have a microwave, just thought I would post my findings as a reference/comparison for anyone that is interested 
     2021 T@B 400 BD, 2019 F-150, or 2011 F-150 (depending on conditions)

    Definition of Success….”moving from failure to failure without any loss of enthusiasm” (Winston Churchill)
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  • rhynorhyno Member Posts: 393
    edited October 2020
    @VictoriaP - thank you for pointing out the proper way to weigh as well as the guidance that we should take manufacturer-provided specs with a grain of salt. Good to know!
    2021 T@B 400 BD, 2021 Lexus GX 460, Kansas City MO
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  • VictoriaPVictoriaP Member Posts: 1,496
    Gbertrand said:

    Yes @rhyno, you are correct that the web site states 336 lbs......my scale is brand new, came with a calibration certificate, so I am fairly confident it is close, and no we do not have a microwave, just thought I would post my findings as a reference/comparison for anyone that is interested 
    It is interesting to see the weight is that far off from specs, though. Honestly, if I were still thinking about a 400, I’d be looking for a vehicle with a minimum 600 lb tongue weight limit. The dry weight you ended up with is way too close for comfort with the usual “minimum 5000 lb towing capacity/500 lb tongue” we throw around when discussing the 400.

    (And this is why I harp on knowing your tongue weight so much, both here and on the FB groups. I guarantee we have a ton of owners who are significantly over where they should be for their tow vehicles.)
    2019 320s BD Lite, white with blue (“Haven”)
    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6r (unsafe 200lb tongue weight limit until 2020 models)
    2020 Subaru Outback XT
    Pacific NW
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  • Kr@ckenKr@cken Member Posts: 146
    I have been using the Curt Better Weigh because I was just unable to get a good reading with the scale. Has anyone else used this? Do you think it is accurate? It sure has been simple to use. https://www.curtmfg.com/betterweigh
    Kr@cken
    2020 T@B 320 Boondock
    Factory Victron Solar, Norcold 3 way Fridge
    Clueless about everything electronic
    2020 Subaru Ascent 
    Bainbridge Island, Wa
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  • GbertrandGbertrand Member Posts: 39
    Again true statement @VictoriaP.........the main reason I had purchased the scale long before we took possession of or new T@B

    As mentioned above we have packed, and re-packed (and taken weight measurements) through out the summer, we have been as high as 530 lbs, so re-packed, re-distributed weight and now we have our packing down to an effective/easy routine that works for us and keeps our tongue weight at or below 500 lbs

    Both our pickups are F-150's, and with most 1/2 tons are rated at 500/5000 (without WDH), and off the top of my head something like 1300 lb tongue and 11,000 lb (with WDH)......I asked Ford to explain those numbers when we had our last trailer (24 ft). The explanation they gave me was the 500/5000 was without a class 111 or 1V, and the ball mounted on the bumper (NUTS....I would not want to connect to the bumper) That all said both our pickups have factory installed class 1V hitches, and I am very confident in being at 500 lb hitch weight.

    One other point most people forget about when looking at a TV capacity is how much weight dose it remove from your steering axe.......I do not have that kind of scale but I did measure the distance connected/not connected. With the T@B conected (500 lb tongue weight) the truck body set down 1/2" on the back axe, and raised the fount body 3/4" off the steering axels, we do not notice any difference in steering, driven in some real rain storms and all was good, so for us this set up works

    But as said above I only posted this as a comparison, everyone's setup will be different, have fun and enjoy 
     2021 T@B 400 BD, 2019 F-150, or 2011 F-150 (depending on conditions)

    Definition of Success….”moving from failure to failure without any loss of enthusiasm” (Winston Churchill)
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  • VictoriaPVictoriaP Member Posts: 1,496
    edited October 2020
    Kr@cken said:
    I have been using the Curt Better Weigh because I was just unable to get a good reading with the scale. Has anyone else used this? Do you think it is accurate? It sure has been simple to use. https://www.curtmfg.com/betterweigh
    Curt advertises a 5% +/- accuracy on the BetterWeigh. Which, in your case—a 320 being pulled by a vehicle with a 5000 lb towing capacity—is fine. For someone pulling much closer to their limits, a 5% margin could be an issue, especially on the heavier 400 or Avia. I’d probably haul the trailer down to the local truck scale for a comparison to see how far off yours is, so you know going forward. The reviews lately on Amazon question that accuracy, though.

    The Curt device is an easy way to get a ballpark figure, which is why I might pick one up for overall weight at some point. But I trust my imported “noseweight” scale to handle the 320’s tongue weight more accurately, because it’s specifically designed and calibrated for the lighter than typical tongue weights of European trailers. Which makes it better suited than most of the US-marketed scales, at least for the 320. 

    Scales are most accurate near the center of their weight range, and the lightest US tongue weight scale measures up to 1000 pounds...which makes it less accurate in the 2-300 pound range of the typical 320. That 1000 pounder is a better fit for weighing a 400.
    2019 320s BD Lite, white with blue (“Haven”)
    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6r (unsafe 200lb tongue weight limit until 2020 models)
    2020 Subaru Outback XT
    Pacific NW
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  • rhynorhyno Member Posts: 393
    @VictoriaP - we're in that 500 lb tongue weight limit group so yeah...definite concerns with our upcoming delivery.
    2021 T@B 400 BD, 2021 Lexus GX 460, Kansas City MO
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  • VictoriaPVictoriaP Member Posts: 1,496
    edited October 2020
    rhyno said:
    @VictoriaP - we're in that 500 lb tongue weight limit group so yeah...definite concerns with our upcoming delivery.
    I thought I remembered you were in that range. Boondock or regular? Solo? Which fridge? The regular will be lighter, and the floorplans likely differ at least a little in terms of balancing the overall load.

    Here’s my perspective: I bought my 320 after being told by multiple owners that my then-current Outback could handle it. And to be fair, from an actual towing perspective, it was fine. But the tongue weight limit on that vehicle was 200 lbs, and the Boondock Lite that year weighs in at...just under 200 lbs with the tire behind the axle. I also have the Purpleline trailer mover installed behind the axle, which offsets some weight. But it meant that I was ALWAYS fighting to stay right at the limit, and honestly, having to constantly reshuffle everything to stay at that weight has spoiled a lot of my enjoyment in having the trailer. I would not have bought the trailer had I realized ahead of time that it would mean changing cars.

    Lesson learned: most people when asked point blank don’t know what their tongue weight is. Worse yet, they think the dry weight specs are all they need to worry about, when loaded weight is often very significantly heavier.

    I spent the last year debating what to do. Sell the trailer? Buy a new car? How much bigger do I really need? The one thing I did not consider was keeping the old Outback and 320 as a combo. It just was not a risk I was willing to take, not when I could personally be held fully liable in an accident if the tongue weight happened to be 10 pounds over the limit on that trip. Insurance claims are much easier to deny when you’re over the vehicle manufacturers stated limits for your car.

    In the end, I bought a new Outback, which has a 350 lb tongue weight limit. I did so knowing I will never be able to safely put a bike rack or generator on the trailer tongue, and I’ll still have to watch my load a bit more carefully than Kracken will, for example with her larger SUV. But I’ll be able to move the spare tire forward into a better location in case it ever is actually needed, and up my battery capacity a bit without having to literally agonize over the weight change. My goal with the new car is to stay under 280 tongue weight, giving me a reasonable margin for error.

    If I were in your shoes, I’d contact nuCamp directly and point them to this thread indicating a significant difference in tongue weight over their stated specs. Perhaps they can provide some insight on just why this particular 400 is so heavy, and what you can expect to see when weighing the one you have on order.
    2019 320s BD Lite, white with blue (“Haven”)
    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6r (unsafe 200lb tongue weight limit until 2020 models)
    2020 Subaru Outback XT
    Pacific NW
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  • PolanskysterPolanskyster Member Posts: 46
    @gbertrand seems NuCamp would be grossly negligent advertising a tongue weight significantly less then the weight you are showing in your post.  Did the weight in your first post include the 2 aluminum tubs?
    2021 T@B 400, 2020 Audi Q5 
    Portland, OR
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  • rhynorhyno Member Posts: 393
    edited October 2020
    Dealer called Creed at nuCamp and he verified 336 dry/356 wet for 2021 Tab400 Boondock, and that published weights on the newer models should be accurate.
    2021 T@B 400 BD, 2021 Lexus GX 460, Kansas City MO
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  • VictoriaPVictoriaP Member Posts: 1,496
    edited October 2020
    rhyno said:
    Dealer called Creed at nuCamp and he verified 336 dry/356 wet for 2021 Tab400 Boondock, and that published weights on the newer models should be accurate.
    And yet...that claimed wet weight is still more than 20 lbs under what Paul got in his video, when he was weighing with a technique that is known to produce lighter (edit: nope, heavier) weights rather than accurate ones. So even if we assume @Gbertrand’s aluminum boxes are the discrepancy on the unit in the first post, there’s still a difference here. I would expect Paul’s weight with a full LP bottle to come in lower than nüCamp’s stated wet weight, not higher.

    I remain unconvinced. Something isn’t right here. And given the 400’s previous model years’ issues with significantly heavier than stated average tongue weights...ugh.

    (Edit: see further explanations below. Something still isn’t right, but weight at coupler versus jack probably isn’t part of the issue.)
    2019 320s BD Lite, white with blue (“Haven”)
    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6r (unsafe 200lb tongue weight limit until 2020 models)
    2020 Subaru Outback XT
    Pacific NW
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  • rhynorhyno Member Posts: 393
    If anyone else reaches out to nuCamp directly I'd love to hear their responses.
    2021 T@B 400 BD, 2021 Lexus GX 460, Kansas City MO
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  • VictoriaPVictoriaP Member Posts: 1,496
    rhyno said:
    If anyone else reaches out to nuCamp directly I'd love to hear their responses.
    The data lover in me wants to go around at a dealer and weigh them all. Give me all the data! LOL

    Seriously, though, for now I would assume Paul’s weight of 380 with LP is closer to accurate than the stated weight (though still under by at least a little), and I would bring a scale to the dealer when it’s time to pick up (or ask if the dealer has one to borrow). I would not leave the lot without knowing for certain that your vehicle can handle the loaded tongue. If unloaded proves to be closer to 400 rather than 356, you’ll know you need to balance your load more carefully, that’s all. If it ends up at 430 like Gbertrand’s, I’d be giving things a lot more thought at that point, because that’s a pretty dramatic difference over spec and it’s going to be harder to keep it below your 500 lb limit.

    Gbertrand’s 70 lb increase from just carrying LP to fully loaded is not uncommon to see, in fact, it’s probably fairly average on a trailer that size. I’d plan on a jump of around that much once you load yours.

    2019 320s BD Lite, white with blue (“Haven”)
    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6r (unsafe 200lb tongue weight limit until 2020 models)
    2020 Subaru Outback XT
    Pacific NW
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  • Denny16Denny16 Member Posts: 5,431
    edited October 2020
    Rhyno, I believe if nüCamp is listing a wet weight, it is with water in the fresh water tank, and battery with an empty propane bottle, a full bottle would add to the wet weight.  Wet weight on a vehicle is with gas, oils and coolant, no cargo.
    cheers
    2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock,  Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
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  • VictoriaPVictoriaP Member Posts: 1,496
    Denny16 said:
    I believe the nüCamp wet weight is with water in the fresh water tank, and battery with an empty propane bottle, a full bottle would add to the wet weight.  Wet weight on a vehicle is with gas, oils and coolant, no cargo.
    cheers
    Still doesn’t explain the discrepancy, since I highly doubt the RV being measured in Paul’s video at his dealership is carrying a full tank of water. And interestingly, that wet weight isn’t on nüCamp’s site detailing the 400 specs.
    2019 320s BD Lite, white with blue (“Haven”)
    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6r (unsafe 200lb tongue weight limit until 2020 models)
    2020 Subaru Outback XT
    Pacific NW
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  • Denny16Denny16 Member Posts: 5,431
    edited October 2020
    Victoria, I was replying to Rhyno’s statement about wet weight he got from nüCamp.  You are correct, in that the published specs only show dry weight.
    cheers.  In one of the nüCamp release video’s an approximate wet weight was mentioned, if I remember correctly.  

    The only way to be sure, is to weigh your own trailer, both dry and when packed for camping.  The actual dry weight will give you an idea about how much cargo,weight you can add to the trailer.
    cheers
    2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock,  Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
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  • VictoriaPVictoriaP Member Posts: 1,496
    Denny16 said:

    The only way to be sure, is to weigh your own trailer, both dry and when packed for camping.  The actual dry weight will give you an idea about how much cargo,weight you can add to the trailer.
    cheers
    Totally agree. It’s unfortunate that this is a known issue across the industry. People buy trailers based on numbers provided by the manufacturer, and those numbers don’t always closely match reality. Frustrating.
    2019 320s BD Lite, white with blue (“Haven”)
    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6r (unsafe 200lb tongue weight limit until 2020 models)
    2020 Subaru Outback XT
    Pacific NW
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  • Denny16Denny16 Member Posts: 5,431
    Yes yes it is.  That is why I sold my smaller Jeep, which only had a 3,000/300 weight rating on its towing, and got the larger capacity on the a Jeep truck, which has more than enough for the 400 or 320, which we were looking at originally.  Decided the extra room on the 400 wad good, and we had the ability now to tow it.
    cheers
    2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock,  Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
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  • GbertrandGbertrand Member Posts: 39
    Good morning all.........@Polanskyster, you asked if my posted dry weight of 430 lbs included the 2 aluminum tubs, no it did not, the only thing the new trailer had that day was a full propane bottle, and maybe 10 gals of water in the fresh water tank that was put in at the dealership so we could do an inspection of the water system

    Again I am unsure of the discrepancy, scale is new and calibrated.......I only posted my findings as an FYI for anyone curious, or concerned about 2021 400 BD tongue weight  
     2021 T@B 400 BD, 2019 F-150, or 2011 F-150 (depending on conditions)

    Definition of Success….”moving from failure to failure without any loss of enthusiasm” (Winston Churchill)
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  • PolanskysterPolanskyster Member Posts: 46
    The estimated 10 gallons of water may be the answer to the weight discrepancy. After all, 10 gallons of water weighs 83 pounds.
    2021 T@B 400, 2020 Audi Q5 
    Portland, OR
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  • VictoriaPVictoriaP Member Posts: 1,496
    Polanskyster said:
    The estimated 10 gallons of water may be the answer to the weight discrepancy. After all, 10 gallons of water weighs 83 pounds.
    Yeah, but no way is that 83 pounds on the tongue. Isn’t the fresh water tank fairly close to the axle on the 400? 
    2019 320s BD Lite, white with blue (“Haven”)
    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6r (unsafe 200lb tongue weight limit until 2020 models)
    2020 Subaru Outback XT
    Pacific NW
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  • Denny16Denny16 Member Posts: 5,431
    edited October 2020
    Yes, it is just about centered on the axle on pre 2021 models.  On a 2021, it would be slightly more behind, than forward of the axle. 
    cheers
    2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock,  Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
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  • KentsbKentsb Member Posts: 67
    Gbertrand said:

    These are the 2 aluminum tubs I installed (sorry for the poor picture......it was frosty out this morning, and looks like the camera lens frosted up😀)......BBQ, pails, outdoor games, campfire blankets, and other lighter items all stored here, and the tubs are weather proof

    Looks like we have 10 days or so before the weather turns on us so hopefully get out for couple more nights, before the white stuff hits😀😀😀
     

    Where did you get the tubs from, and how much were they?




    52 nights
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  • ChrisFixChrisFix Member Posts: 739
    Just a PSA about adding storage bins like that. You need to be mindful when backing up that you don't jack-knife into them. The extra width and depth (relative to the factory shelf) will definitely reduce the angle you can turn before hitting the boxes with your tow vehicle.
    After two years of looking and considering...finally the proud owner of a 2021 T@B 400 Boondock!
    2023 Honda Ridgeline RTL-E with Redarc Trailer Brake Controller
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  • GbertrandGbertrand Member Posts: 39
    @Kentsb........believe it or not I found them on Wayfair https://www.wayfair.ca/storage-organization/pdx/wfx-utility-marlborough-aluminum-truck-underbody-toolboxes-c001575916.html, very light (around 14 lbs each), and they keep most weather out, some light dust gets in but never any water, very happy with them

    @ChrisFix........you are correct with your concerns of "jackknife" into the boxes, once installed I had my wife watch as did multiple maneuvers in a parking lot down the street, amazingly I was able to fully turn without hitting the boxes (but it was very close😀), however this was on level ground and pavement, something our little T@B rarely sees, so the concern was still there if I did a hard turn on uneven ground in the bush the bumper would come in contact with the boxes. I ordered an extra long 2" receiver https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Hitch-Ball-Mount/Curt/D-26.html, and have had zero issues in the last 3 outings 
     2021 T@B 400 BD, 2019 F-150, or 2011 F-150 (depending on conditions)

    Definition of Success….”moving from failure to failure without any loss of enthusiasm” (Winston Churchill)
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  • atlasbatlasb Member Posts: 584
    To add more to the confusion about weights,  Check your spec placard on the side of the frame for your axle capacity and also look at your tires side wall for weight capacity for them at max pressure.  Our 2018 , 400 had the 3500 lb axle and the tires were about 1860 lbs each.  we were at 460 dry tongue and 525 with the jack it bike wing and 2 comfort bikes.  Scaled on one trip weight of the 400 was 3240 lbs.  no water on board.  changed to 3900lb axle for added capacity and will change to good year endurance tires for added capacity.  You need to consider the lowest capacity as to how much you can add in added weight.  Our Frontier crew cab had a tongue capacity or 630.  The Current 2017 Titan has 900+ tongue capacity. 
    2018 T@B 400, 2017 Nissan Titan Crew cab
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