Floor Rot on a 2016 Tab 320-S (Pleasant Valley)

roro

Hi,

I tried searching for wood rot for a model from around 2016 and couldn't find anything.  Does anyone know what year the floors where changed?  I thought the 2016 didn't have wood floors but mine does and I have some soft spots in the rear and near the entryway threshold.  About 6 inches inward from the edge and I want to try and fix it before it get worse, but curious about the floors.  I took a sander in the back in an attempt to sand through the wood, it's thin, about 1/4 inches and then my sander hits some type of composit matterial (Good sign I think), but why do I still have wood rot?  I can provide a picture if that helps.

Thanks!
Ro

DougH

@roro Popular topic. Mine has a build date of 09/2016 (is considered a 2017) and has vinyl sheet that looks a little like wood on top, then two to three sixteenths of Azdel (dark plastic grainy looking stuff), then an inch of foam, then Azdel, and then a mesh membrane.  Around summer of 2016 is apparently when they switched from luan to Azdel, so yours should be luan (thin wood based sort of a plywood) from what I've been told.  There's an aluminum grid of structural framing every foot or so in amongst the foam blocks (all laminated together).

The soft spot near entry way has been described by folks here several times before.  It may not be rot though, and may possibly not be spreading... it might be wear and tear on that thin top layer of luan under the top vinyl, and the foam block underneath. That area gets more stress than others, and luan is pretty thin stuff, even if two layers.  But fix any water intrusion or leak before fixing the floor if it is a water issue from the doorway.

Older thread:
https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/991/floor-construction/p2

I'd never heard of this being done on a T@B, but one RV repair guy uses an interesting technique:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4RfbD1j4EM

Same thing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGw4Cw_Tzxg

P.S. Folks in late 2017 / early 2018 had an issue with Greencore instead of Azdel being used that delaminated causing wavy floors or bubbles, and NuCamp is fixing those free.  You can get a quote from NuCamp or your dealer to get a repair. Though on even older models we've had some awesome members do-it-themselves and replace their entire floor.

P.S. I have a soft spot on mine too, even with Azdel, in the middle of the floor, a bit closer to the passenger side.  Not near a door, window, or anything. If water induced delamination, moisture travelled several feet from a hole for a vent pipe, water line, or propane feed or some leak I dont know about to that one spot in the middle. Not likely. I don't have a clue how some of these soft spots form unless it's just from weight and foam compression with a thinner than average section of luan or Azdel, or a high traffic area.

roro

Thank you very much for the info.  I have a few pictures showing what the dark soft spots look like at the door threshold and then the back corner where I cut the vynle floor so I could see better.  This is where I sanded and then hit the what looks to be figerglass.  So the question now becomes do I have to worry about it since the bottom appears to be fiberglass or some type of composite.  I bought ny unit new in late 2015 as a 2016 model.  The black stuff is definitly mold as I can smell it.  I would like to sand or cut all the mold away but I still can't figure out how or when water comes in.....I keep the trailer under a roof when not in use.

DougH

Ouch!  This is just an uneducated guess, but it does look like a door seal is leaking water in, and I've read here that the taillights can leak water into the back corners.  Somebody with an older model that has fixed their floor will have to chime in on whether, or how, small sections of the floor can be repaired.

JCarl

We own a 2018 320s with a build date on the frame that says 11/2016. We have really similar stains on our floor in the area under the table. Does anyone have any ideas on what’s causing this and what we’ll have to do to fix it? 

Verna

Typically the water leaks towards the rear of the T@B’s are actually due to water leaking from the tail lights. There are many posts about this.  Search for tail lights (“discussions” only in the search function) and there are many how to’s.

My 2014 T@B S Max had leaks from both taillights that had been replaced by a new technician who often forgot to apply the proper amount of caulk. Austin (nüCamp repair) replaced the tail lights again and sealed them up again. He cleaned the floor behind the sofa with a product from Amazon that removed the “almost” moldy stains. The stains will never come totally out, but there was no odor. 

If you want some advice from Austin about this, email repairs@nucamprv.com. Caution, nüCamp RV typically takes a one or two week factory shutdown between Christmas and New Years. Email is best as Austin will help when he returns. (He rarely uses the phone, but he is very good about returning emails.)

DougH

@JCarl I thought a build date of 11/2016 would be called a 2017 T@B.  Nonetheless, you can take a bright flashlight and go to the floor under the fridge in the front passenger corner, or either back corner where you can easily lift the linoleum to prove to yourself you have an Azdel sandwich floor (dark colored fibrous plasticy layer under the vinyl)... no deep seated rot possible, but I suppose moisture and mold can get anywhere though.



I bought one of those General moisture detectors:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HARYVUQ

...to confirm I didn't have any additional moisture readings anywhere near the floor soft spots on my own 09/2016 build.

Did you check under the bed to see if the linoleum all looks fine around the Alde and on the passenger side under the bench?  If you don't have any stains anywhere there or on the wood / paper coat that curves up from the back floor where taillight leaks can drip down as Verna described, then I'd be tempted to just replace the visible section of the linoleum under the table and up towards the front. 

I don't believe that top sheet is in any way an integral part of the strength of the laminate sandwich of Azdel, foam block and aluminum square tube. You could cut it out and lay down a similar sheet, or put in vinyl planking. And check the condition of the Azdel underneath while you're doing it, to see if there's more serious issues.

But as always, and as mentioned above, consult NüCamp for the expert opinion. I did, and given how much movement I had in the center of the floor Austin said they could delaminate and rebuild the whole visible section of floor with fresh similar materials for $2-3k. I haven't done that yet, and I just have vinyl planking on top for a somewhat more solid floor feel for now.


Can you post a picture of your floor area in question?

JCarl

Doug, Thanks very much for your reply. I’m new to this site and if I can figure out how to attach a picture I will. I was surprised and disappointed to see a build date of 11/16 sold as a 2018 but it was. Even titled as such. We are new trailer owners and weren’t careful inspecting the tab when we bought it a year ago. We trusted the dealer, probably a mistake. To late now. There is a water stain in the rear compartment where it begins to slope up toward the back of the trailer, also water staining along the edge beside where the black flex hoses go to the glycol tank. So there’s definitely been leakage at some time. Everything is dry at the moment from what I can see. Luckily the floor does feel solid everywhere. I’ve sent photos to Creed at NuCamp and hope to hear back from him today. We can live with the floor stains if we have to but I’d be tempted to try to take up the wood grain linoleum and put down new if it looks like something I could do. But I have to be sure of course that I solve the leaks first. 

JCarl

Verna and Doug, thank you both so much. I think you’ll be able to open photo attachments below.

Verna

@JCarl, you do need to remove your tail light(s) and recall. There are many photos here on the forum similar to yours and they are caused simply by the caulking around the tail light. There is not much slack on the wiring for the tail lights, so you do need to be careful when removing the old caulk. Use a plastic putty knife, not a metal one so you don’t gouge the plastic trim or wiring. After it is cleaned up, you can recall with whatever caulking product Creed says is the best. 

You also need to find a product that will remove any active growing “black stuff” (I am not well-versed on what to call the black stains). I do not use bleach for stains such as these because I am allergic to bleach and I have read there are better products for this job than bleach, so please do some research. 

Your VIN tag gives you the production date (which you already know) and it does give the model year. 

DougH

@JCarl Congratulations on the solid floor. And congratulations on only being the recipient of the infamous tail light leak(s)... that a lot of us have had. And yup, exactly as Verna just said, regarding caulking the tail lights. Easy job.

You don't need to live with the stains, and should not leave mold coated surfaces untreated for health reasons. If not bothered by wearing rubber gloves and using a strongish bleach solution with lots of ventilation (make sure you get the bleach that says "sanitizing" on it), plenty on the forum have been able to get rid of all or almost all of the staining, just with several sessions alternating between bleach and soap. Follow up, after drying,  with an oil based / wood cleaner maybe.

There are wicking fungicides that I've used before in the house that do an amazing job of coating inaccessible surfaces after a water leak, and instantly getting rid of the gym sock smell, but I wouldn't use them in the closed confines of a T@B, especially since that's an area heated by the Alde system.

Denny16

From what I understand, April was the beginning build date for a given model year, up until 2020: 
“ PVT distributed the TaBs through Little Guy Worldwide until April of 2017 at which point, the recently launched PVT - nuCamp company took over
distribution to it's dealers.”  

So the first nüCamp run starting in April 2017, was the 2018 model year release. 
So a Tab built earlier in 2017 or in late 2016 would have been a 2017 Model year TaB.  The current build year dates have changed starting with the release of the 2021 models.

As for the floor construction, “ Since 2016 no wood in the floors, they and Airstream were the first companies to use the Alde heat system (which is great), they took advantage of new synthetics (Azdel), and they use real wood cabinetry instead of cheap fiberboard.”  These quotes are from Sharon-is-Sam, and the full history of TaBs story is here: https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/8302/tab-history
cheers

Sharon_is_SAM

@Denny16 and @DougH - Doug noted above “ Around summer of 2016 is apparently when they switched from luan to Azdel, so yours should be luan (thin wood based sort of a plywood) from what I've been told.”

The summer of 2016 they were producing 2017 models.  I know for certain that the 2017 models had no wood in the floors.

I thought we had decided that the mid 2016 models (produced July 2015 thru March 2016) changed to all Azdel floor.  So, the later 2016 models were free of wood in the floors.  

Oh @Verna!

DougH

And now we all just need an update from @roro on how their floor adventures are evolving.

tabiphile

Lauan is a SE Asian tree that is easily peeled into thin veneer layers. Standard Lauan (luan) sub-flooring is made by laminating these veneers into a plywood that is commonly used for subflooring. It is too soft to provide true flooring structure so it is used as a leveling layer followed by some type of water-resistant flooring material. Standard Lauan plywood is susceptible to water damage. It has been in use in the RV (and housing) industry forever so flooring problems are not unique to these older T@Bs. There is also an exterior grade material available.