30 Amp service at home

rhyno

I am wanting to add an enclosed 30 amp RV receptacle to the outside of my garage. Has anyone done this who may be able to offer a sanity check for my shopping list?

1x 30 amp half inch non-GFCI single pole breaker  (Going half inch b/c the service panel is nearly full but there is a dual pole 30 amp circuit that is not used that I could remove if needed)

1x 10/2 Power Whip (may not need this if I mount the RV outlet directly to the garage exterior)

1x 25 ft of 10/2 Romex with ground - will need about 15 feet to get from the service panel to the outlet

1x Outdoor RV box with outlet (should I get one with a secondary 30 amp breaker inside the box like you would have a campground or one with no breaker?)

basic installation accessories like wire staples, etc.

ChrisFix

Wouldn't it need to be GFCI if the outlet is mounted outside? Thought that was code most places...

rhyno

ChrisFix said:

Wouldn't it need to be GFCI if the outlet is mounted outside? Thought that was code most places...

I was wondering that myself but have seen anecdotal accounts of GFCI causing trouble with 30 and 50 amp service. Also found this article explaining why it is not advisable due to additive ground leakage from multiple appliances and extension cords leaking current to ground. There is way more plugged into an RV than you would see on a typical 15 or 20 amp GFCI circuit - but with the GFCI threshold being 5 mA regardless of total circuit amperage, 30 and 50 amp circuits are much more likely to trip a GFCI unnecessarily - https://www.rvtravel.com/30-and-50-amp-gfcis-in-campgrounds/

Verna

The GFCI outlet is normally on the 20 amp outlet provided on the electrical pedestal, for most “modern” pedestal installations. 

I have the 30 amp Progressive Industries EMS permanently installed to prevent any electrical abnormalities that would harm my electronics inside my T@B. Others use a portable surge suppressor or EMS n their 30 amp cable. 

rhyno

@Verna - I will be using a Hughes Power Watchdog portable with emergency power off. Model PWD30-EPO. I considered a hardwired model but I have sensitive hearing and if the EMS has any chance of making a buzzing noise I would be sure to hear it. 

ChrisFix

The EMS systems will protect the camper...but a GFCI protects the user from potential electric shock from whatever is plugged into the outlet. They are different things.
Granted, if you're only using the outlet for your one specific camper, with an EMS system...it's very unlikely to be an issue.
But the reality is, once an outlet is available, there is no limiting what someone, one day will plug into it.
I don't really know what the statndard is (GFCI or no GFCI) for a 30 Amp outdoor outlet...but in general, any outlet that can be wet needs a GFCI circuit.

Denny16

For GFI on the 30-amp RV outlet, you would need a (very expensive) 30-amp GFI circuit breaker, which will take up two slots (the last time I looked).  A GFI is required for a 30-amp feed to a outdoor hot tub, which is why I installed one.  The breaker goes on the sub panel or main panel.  

Also, Marina’s have their dock 30-amp plugs GFI protected, as is the requirement around water.  An outdoor 30-amp RV outlet is not normally on a GFI breaker, as one normally connects and disconnects when the circuit is switched off.

That said, one should check their local building codes, as some areas require GFI on all outdoor outlets.  Also, you need to check and see if a building permit is required, as many do for electrical modifications or upgrades.  I had to pull a permit for electrical work in California.  If you add to or modify your electrical system without a permit, whe one is required, and yiur building has a fire, your insurance can use this as an excuse not to pay out.

I installed a RV type 30-amp service to our main panel, which is close to where thenTaB is stored.  I added a 30-amp cutoff disconnect switch, to avoid using the breaker for a off/on switch (which is hard on breakers).  Here is what the installation looks like, nothing fancy, just normal outdoor rated utility boxes:



(Edited photo to upright position.  Sharon)
Thanks Sharon

My main panel is inside the wood box the RV plug/box is mounted to, so wiring was a snap for my electrician.  I mounted the boxes, he idi the wiring as required by local codes.
cheers

rhyno

@Denny16 We will definitely check building codes and get a permit if needed. Thank you for the suggestion.

Deb55

@rhyno may I ask why you're going the route of putting in 30 amp? We considered this, but ultimately decided to just put ordinary household current out there on the outside of our garage. It was cheaper and easier, and it handles everything I need it to do with just an adapter on the 30 amp cord. Plus, it's more versatile for regular yard use. I've been able to run AC or heat, lights, the fan, the Jensen, and charge the battery. The only time I tripped a breaker in the house was when I had the Alde going for heat and tried to bump it up a bit by turning on the heat pump at the same time. So, now I just don't do that! 

rhyno

@Deb55 - since I'll be wiring it myself I figured I would just go with full 30 amp service since we'll be driveway camping occasionally. I see your point about using a standard outlet with adapter and it is good to hear that it handles the load without issue but I had heard that the AC requires higher amps on startup. Do you have a soft start on your AC or is it still stock?

ChrisFix

20A is all you need to driveway surf. The Coolcat runs well under 20A even at startup. I've run it on 15A without incident, stock, no soft start.
There is nothing that can't be run with 20A...and since you can't run the microwave and Coolcat at the same time, even on 30A, I see no difference in having 20A service at home vs. dedicated RV plug 30A.

rhyno

@ChrisFix - between you and @Deb55 I think I'm in good shape and will plan to use a standard 20 amp plugin w/ adapter. I'll table this project as "if needed". Thanks much!

Denny16

Was the same work for me to go with 30-amp or 20amp, just the cost difference in the outlet.  I already had the wire left over from a recent project.  I also have a contractor box, thst takes the 30-amp connection and gives me a 20-amp and 15-amp outlet from the 30-amp connection.  

But, yes, if you run one large appliance at a time, 20-amp is good.  On electrical, the Alde is only going to work on its low 1KW setting whilst on 15/20amps.  You need 30amps for the 2KW setting (ChrisFix says it works on 20amps) which is what Alde recommends, and why I opted for a full 30-amp service.
cheers

ChrisFix

Denny16 said:

 But, yes, if you run one large appliance at a time, 20-amp is good.  On electrical, the Alde is only going to work on its low 1KW setting whilst on 15/20amps.  You need 30amps for the 2KW setting, which is why I opted for a full 30-amp service.

cheers

I'm running Alde on 2KW right now on 20A...and have been for days.
On 15A, then yes, 1KW limit on Alde...or Propane.

Denny16

Thanks, Chris, I have not read this, and was going by Alde documentation.
cheers

Fergie

There also is a long previous thread on this subject. I have a 30amp RV service installed at our house and my comments on this thread give some recommendations to anyone not wanting to second guess a professional electrician, although that electrician may not be familiar with the outlet itself that is unique to the boating and RV community. Also earlier models of T@B's (mine is a 2015 version) have conventional A/C's that draw significant starting currents so that was my reason for wanting a separate breaker-protected circuit for the T@B. The summer of 2019 was unusually hot here in South Central Alaska and we use the parked T@B as a "guest house" for visiting family members. This past summer, not so hot!

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/8472/tab-extension-cord-step-down-from-30amp-to-house-questions/p3

Fergie

bergger

I've been thinking this over as well since I'll be building a pad with full hookups at our house.  Since we have a 20amp outlet already in place and I've run everything off that in the past with no issues I did not see the benefit of spending the money for a 30amp plug.  I'm just going to use the existing outlet.  

Denny16

If a 20-amp service is what you have, than, that should work for you.  Try it first, and if it does not have the capacity you need, you can always upgrade to a 30amp later.
A,eve, concrete pad, I am envious — enjoy!
cheers

GatorEgg

I feel I’m very competent at almost everything thing from engine/carbuilding, sailing across oceans on my boat, to working on aircraft as a retired Navy Electronics Tech.  But when it comes to something code related and which could burn down my house along with the neighborhood I spent a couple extra bucks and had a professional install mine along with a generator transfer switch into my home wiring for power outages while he was here.

Denny16

Wise man, I did the same.  I also needed a a electrical contractor of record to pull the required permits.  

Cheers

Fergie

Just to be sure everyone here is working with the right information, professional or not, I again post this attached explanation of why even a professional not familiar with RV and Marine standards could be confused.

 It's straightforward if you understand this, but not worth risking making a mistake that could cause a fire or compromised wiring faults.

The professional I had to install the 30amp breaker in the house junction box and hook up mine to was NOT originally familiar with the special RV outlet. He acknowledged this when he checked out my job of wiring the outlet and routing it to the junction box.  I had to show him the attached a copy of the attachment below before he would OK my wiring job and finish the connection. 

Fergie

jkjenn

Beware!

My brother hired a licensed electrician to install a 30 amp connection for me at his house this year. He was very clear that the intention was for RV use. The electrician wired it for 250v. Thankfully, the Progressive EMS caught it and stopped it from damaging anything in the T@b. 

The electrician has since been back to fix it.

Last a week a second brother installed a 30 amp connection for me at his house.

Both did it without me ever even hinting at it (who would think they would something like that?) I am a lucky sister.

Mouseketab

When we built our garage on our previous house, the contractor initially wired the 30 Amp as 220. We caught it during the build and he corrected it.