Winterizing a 2015 T@B Max S--Help

SolomonsIsland

Just picked up my TAB and have started to read everything here and in the manuals. As someone already stated  in a post, "my brain is about ready to explode.

After a lot of looking, I found instructions and pics showing valve positions in winterizing mode versus camping mode. These instructions were a great help, but still left me with one nagging question. What is the yellow valve's purpose and what role does it play in winterizing?

Nomad

Ok, somebody correct me if my memory has gone bad - Pretty sure it's to drain the hot water holding tank on the Alde.

SolomonsIsland

Thanks for the comment PXLated.  So based on what I have been able to figure out so far, I would obviously drain the water from ALDI system as part of winterizing and when I do the antifreeze flush, the ALDI bypass valve will keep the antifreeze out of the ALDI system.  There seems to be mixed views about passing antifreeze through the ALDI system.  Thanks again

SolomonsIsland

For those of you who need a pic to help understand the valve setting, search for -- Winterizing a T@B unit--and you will find instructions and pics for 2014 and 2015 models with installed Alde Bypass valves. I believe this was provided by 

Michigan_Mike  

Nomad

Look for that doc Mike referenced :-) I you can't find it, I probably have it somewhere.

When I winterized, I drained and blew out all the water but I don't add antifreeze to the water lines or do a "flush". I did add some antifreeze to all the traps, the toilet and a little to the freshwater tank. The traps are obvious but I added a little in the tanks to keep the dump valves and drain plug on the freshwater tank from freezing in case there was a little residual water/vapor there.
The Alde heating system is sealed and loaded with glycol so you don't have to do anything with that part. The part of the Alde that you do need to drain is the small hot water holding tank.

mawebb

Yes the yellow valve is a drain for the Alde hot water tank. It should be horizontal to the pipe, not at 90 degree position, but if it was water would be running under the T@B. 

2Pipers

It is a drain valve, but in the closed position it is also an emergency pop-off valve for the water heater.  Nice to know... 

ironshadow

Here is how I winterized our 2015 Tab Max CS-S. I bought four gallons of "environmentally friendly" RV anti-freeze. Dumped it all in the flesh water tank at one time. Then ran all the water taps (hot & cold) until the nice pink full strength anti-freeze was flowing. (This took about 30 minutes). Then walked away. In the spring I flushed the complete system with plenty on fresh water. (Took about one hour) And this was in South Dakota. Where it did get down to -30°F a time or two. No worries!

LorieT

Question: If I store beloved T@b in climate controlled storage -- do I have to (or should I) winterize? 

Verna

LorieT said:

Question: If I store beloved T@b in climate controlled storage -- do I have to (or should I) winterize? 

As long as you don't lose power or furnace, sure. Should either of those happen and the temps are below freezing, you will have damage to pipes and your interior.

It only took me less than an hour to winterize when I returned from wintering in Arizona. It really is not that hard to do. 

Nomad

To Verna's point... I was having water pump problems on a car, it was very late may, didn't have time ti deal with it so just filled with water as it leaked - it's in the 70s, warm - Left for a long weekend, put the car in the hanger and took off. Freak blizzard and freezing temps moved in. Car froze up, cracked the block. 

littlelulu

Question about winter in Oregon.  We rarely get extended below freezing temperatures here in Portland.  Is plugging in my trailer and running heat on low an alternative to flushing and antifreezing? 

Verna

littlelulu said:

Question about winter in Oregon.  We rarely get extended below freezing temperatures here in Portland.  Is plugging in my trailer and running heat on low an alternative to flushing and antifreezing? 

Please read the two statements above your question. 

ScottG

No specific answer here, but you can read a few opinions:
https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/3852/difficulty-draining-the-alde

fiddlefoot

More and more questions about winterizing...
Today I labeled all the valves (thank you, Verna, it makes sense once all the labels are there) and drained the drain valves per the instructions in the 2016 pdf.  I then closed the valves, opened the faucets and blew the water out, not much water at all, but I had run them dry previously. Then we hitched up the tab and backed her up a hill and got all the water out of the fresh water tank, the alde finally read zero, and I was so glad to have made the effort.
so the questions...
The yellow valve (alde hot water tank drain) is not mentioned (or I can't see it) in the pdf file and I had to do a little forum research to remember what the valve is (and will label it in the morning).  Should this be drained?  Probably so and I will do so but let me know if I am wrong.
Also the little bit of pink antifreeze in the drains - just how much is a little bit?
Also the pink rv antifreeze purchased today says not to add water and the file says that if one is to winterize by adding water and antifreeze to the tank and running it through the system until it runs pink, are there different antifreeze dilutions?
Thank you all for your experience and good will.
Denise

ColoradoJon

You do not need to open the yellow valve as the system has it's own drain valves, but it doesn't hurt to do so.  As far as anti-freeze you just need enough in the drain to fill the traps, about a cup or two, and about a cup in each of the black and gray tanks to keep the gate valves from freezing.  It should be used full strength (no dilution) for the best protection.  Most brands are good to -40F undiluted but you should check the labels to be sure.

ScottG

ColoradoJon said:

You do not need to open the yellow valve as the system has it's own drain valves...

Not sure I agree with this, at least with regard to my 2015 S. There's only two lines connected to the Alde HW tank. The HW outlet comes out the top so would not make an effective drain. The CW inlet (where the yellow valve is located) enters at the bottom, but I believe there is a backflow preventer in that line that keeps the tank from emptying out the regular CW drain.

Not looking for an argument--if I'm wrong about this please enlighten me as to why.

ColoradoJon

ScottG said:

ColoradoJon said:

You do not need to open the yellow valve as the system has it's own drain valves...

Not sure I agree with this, at least with regard to my 2015 S. There's only two lines connected to the Alde HW tank. The HW outlet comes out the top so would not make an effective drain. The CW inlet (where the yellow valve is located) enters at the bottom, but I believe there is a backflow preventer in that line that keeps the tank from emptying out the regular CW drain.

Not looking for an argument--if I'm wrong about this please enlighten me as to why.

On my 2017, after draining the system with the two other valves, I was never able to get anything to drain from the yellow valve.  It doesn't hurt to open it.  The 2016 winterizing instructions indicate that you do not have to do anything with the yellow valve, so I don't.

AldebaranJill

littlelulu said:

Question about winter in Oregon.  We rarely get extended below freezing temperatures here in Portland.  Is plugging in my trailer and running heat on low an alternative to flushing and antifreezing? 

I am in Seattle, same winters. I bought a mini oil radiant heater from Amazon and leave it plugged in all winter (T@B is plugged into shore power). It easily keeps everything well above freezing. I used to use a ceramic space heater, but the oil heater works better.

ScottG

ColoradoJon said:

On my 2017, after draining the system with the two other valves, I was never able to get anything to drain from the yellow valve.  It doesn't hurt to open it.  The 2016 winterizing instructions indicate that you do not have to do anything with the yellow valve, so I don't.

Understood. I experienced the same thing, only to later discover that my Alde tank was in fact still full. I posted at length about it here: http://www.tab-rv.com/forum#/discussion/3852/difficulty-draining-the-alde

I'm also aware of what is in the 2016 winterizing instructions from PV/NuCamp, but I don't buy it. In fact, the US/CAN Alde manual specifically says (on page 7) to winterize by draining the boiler using the combined safety drain valve (i.e., the yellow valve). Assuming I'm correct about the backflow preventer, I just can't see any other way to get the water out of that tank.

ColoradoJon

ScottG said:

ColoradoJon said:

On my 2017, after draining the system with the two other valves, I was never able to get anything to drain from the yellow valve.  It doesn't hurt to open it.  The 2016 winterizing instructions indicate that you do not have to do anything with the yellow valve, so I don't.

Understood. I experienced the same thing, only to later discover that my Alde tank was in fact still full. I posted at length about it here: http://www.tab-rv.com/forum#/discussion/3852/difficulty-draining-the-alde

I'm also aware of what is in the 2016 winterizing instructions from PV/NuCamp, but I don't buy it. In fact, the US/CAN Alde manual specifically says (on page 7) to winterize by draining the boiler using the combined safety drain valve (i.e., the yellow valve). Assuming I'm correct about the backflow preventer, I just can't see any other way to get the water out of that tank.

Yeah, but if opening the yellow valve doesn't drain any water I don't see how the tank can still be full .  The Alde manual does indeed indicate using this valve to drain the boiler and, assuming no other drain valves exist, this is certainly true.  The T@B instructions utilize compressed air to blow water out of the system.  Maybe this is why I've never had any water drain from the yellow valve.

ericnliz

I have to agree with ScottG, and if you will please look at the post he highlighted. I had the same experience that he had, I just went about draining it in a different fashion. There is, in fact a backflow preventer, and it took several attempts to get the tank to drain. I live in Eastern Washington where the winters can, and do get very cold [down to -20 at times], and I don't want to take the chance of 3 gallons of water freezing in my hot water tank. I would the next time I do the blow-out method, drain this tank first as I believe it needs to have the pressure to fully drain. I hope this helps you out.

ColoradoJon

ericnliz said:

I have to agree with ScottG, and if you will please look at the post he highlighted. I had the same experience that he had, I just went about draining it in a different fashion. There is, in fact a backflow preventer, and it took several attempts to get the tank to drain. I live in Eastern Washington where the winters can, and do get very cold [down to -20 at times], and I don't want to take the chance of 3 gallons of water freezing in my hot water tank. I would the next time I do the blow-out method, drain this tank first as I believe it needs to have the pressure to fully drain. I hope this helps you out.

The automatic check valve is on the upper line (Alde manual page 6, Figure 6 - Check valve location).  It is located above any of the drain valves and unless it is defective it should not interfere with draining the boiler with any of the drain valves.

In any event, go ahead and use the yellow valve.  It won't hurt anything to do so and I never said otherwise.  All I am saying is that I never have to.  When I open it after draining the system... nothing comes out!

Edit: After reviewing the thread link posted by ScottG it appears that the problem was not with the yellow valve but with a suction in the tank that was not allowing it to drain.  This can happen in any system no matter what valves are open or closed.

Photomom

When we opened our hot water drain valve tons of water drained out of the Alde thru the clear hose coming out of the check valve, and even more came out when we did the bicycle pump thing. A little came out of the drain under the yellow thingy too when we opened it. I think we are good to go but in any case we will leave the drains and faucets open for expansion and to let water possibly drain out thru jostling on the way to the storage place. Sure would be nice if there was a way to have visual confirmation that the water is all out. 

In other winterizing news I tucked dryer sheets and Irish Spring bars into all the compartments today. Smells good but I'm still sneezing. 

ScottG

I suspect there may be multiple ways to drain/force/siphon the water out of the Alde tank; the method you employ isn't particularly important, so long as you are certain that the tank is empty. In my case, opening the yellow valve and having nothing come out was not a reliable indicator of complete draining.

I agree with Photomom that some way to visually confirm the water level in the Alde tank would be extremely helpful. Barring that, I'll choose to employ a method that unequivocally assures me the system is empty! 

ericnliz

Coloradojon, Maybe that's why mine finally drained after I put air pressure to it by closing the by-pass valves located in the center of the pipe system on the floor. Never thought of it that way, but thanks for the thought!