Solar setup for a Tab 400

dlb

I am planning on ordering a Tab 400 in the next month.  In conversations with the dealer in the area they sell mostly directly off their lot and not customer orders.  Therefore, I am on own designing my solar system.   I have read a lot on the forum but am not an expert by any stretch.  In order to get what is desired, I need the help of this forum’s wisdom designing what is needed.

My plan is to order the Tab 400 with the Boondock package and supplement the solar with a suitcase unit of about 100 watts that I will purchase separately. My desire is to have all the solar panels connected to a single solar controller, with a lithium battery and a shunt to monitor the system.

My questions are:

Can I have both the rooftop and suitcase panel coming into a single smart controller?

 If so:

What is the standard solar controller on a Tab 400?  Is it the Victron SmartSolar MPPT 75/15?  Is this adequate for my desired set up?

 If not, 

I see some have the Victron SmartSolar MPPT 100/20 will this be adequate? 

How are the two panels connected to the controller?  I assume that connecting in parallel is what is needed. Correct?

I see some setups with Zamp connectors and solar ports being used to connect the suitcase to the trailer.  Is there a standard Y connector that can be used for each panel to plug into prior to connecting to the controller?

I plan on having a Victron SmartShunt, how do I determine which one is needed? Battery size?

The last part of the system is the battery, I am thinking of lithium instead of AGM. 

Our primary use for the Tab 400 is to travel the US and visit many of the national parks.  Trips will be up to 3-4 weeks where boondocking will be the primary camping method.

Thanks for your help.

Dinger

NuCaamp tech support reported this to me a few months ago on the Tab 400 BD:

Aims Power Pure Sine 1200W inverter

Solar Panel: 162W Sunflare (FLEX54-162W)

Solar Controller: Victron Energy MPPT Solar Controller 75/15

ChrisFix

Dinger said:

NuCaamp tech support reported this to me a few months ago on the Tab 400 BD:

Aims Power Pure Sine 1200W inverter

Solar Panel: 162W Sunflare (FLEX54-162W)

Solar Controller: Victron Energy MPPT Solar Controller 75/15

And that is all correct to what is in my 2021 T@B 400...

Denny16

The Victron 75/15 is good for up to 200 watts of solar.  The next bigger Victron is the 100/15, which is more expensive than just buying a second 75/15 formthe portable panels, if they do not have controller.  The SAE plug can be adapted to fit Anderson connectors, MC4 connectors, and others.  I put the second Victron 75/15 between the SAE plug and the battery, using the existing wires that connect the SAE (10Ga stranded wire) to the battery.  We use 15-foot 10Ga MC4 cables to connect the portable solar pane.  The two Victron controllers can be linked to work together, and controlled from the smart phone app.
cheers

dlb

Thanks to all for the help and guidance.  I will probably defer on the batteries for a few years pending competitive pricing and safety concerns.  The plan is to place my order in the next few days.

I will order the Boondocks package for the factory solar and follow the information from Denny16 for the suitcase system.

Thanks again!

Tundra57

@dlb if you search on solar, you will see many different tabbers with different setups. You should decide how much solar you need and maybe capacity for another panel later. Size the tab connector to handle the max of your external panel (s). Also size the external cable for the max output of the panel. If you use longer cables, you may have to up the size. Exactly same type panels can be added together in parallel (or series - there are discussions on that) as long as they dont exceed the voltage and current max of the controller. If you use more than one controller, it is best if they talk to each other like the smart solar units and a BMV so that they will share correctly. The BMV helps you manage your power usage which is critical when you are on solar. I would suggest you keep the AGM batteries for a while as you get used to your boondocking needs. Simple things like heating pump on temp control not continuous, short showers, save cold water when running off to get hot water etc. Also in boondocking, use of fresh water, grey tank and black tank storage are slso critical. There are some great water saving ideas on this forum.

Welcome to the family.

Keep safe.

dlb

After doing more reading and price comparisons I have deciDid to stick with the AGM batteries for now.  Also, for controlling my suitcase panel I will match my solar controllers and set up a communication between them.  

Thanks to all.

Denny16

Good choice dlb, no sense in fixing something that is not broken.  Start with the factory setup, try it out, and add what you need after gaining some experience using the trailer.  Suggestions from here are a good starting point, but your experience using the TaB in your typical situations, will tell you what is needed down the road... 
cheers

ColoradoSun

I've seen/heard conflicting information on how the external SAE plug for portable solar panels are wired on the 2021 T@B 400 BD. A tech at the dealer says the plug is wired at the factory directly to the batteries not to the Victron controller. I have an existing Renogy 50 watt solar panel without a charge controller and had hoped to be able to use it without modifications. Anyone know the answer?

pthomas745

The SAE plug would/should be wired right to the battery.  You would need a solar controller.  Your solar setup would go from the solar panel, the solar controller, and then to the SAE port.  The SAE port is easy to deal with, just has to be wired properly from the solar controller.  50 watts may be a bit light on charging power, but it should help a bit.

A minute with a multimeter will show you if the SAE port is wired to the battery.

Welcome to the Forums!

ColoradoSun

Thanks, our existing 50W panel w/o a controller was only a good option if the Victron controller on the T@B could accommodate it. If we use additional solar capacity we'll be looking at least 100W.

bergger

I have a 2021 400 and the external solar plug is wired directly to the battery.  You'll want a panel with it's own controller.  We use an 80 watt gopower solar suitcase that I've had for years as a supplemental solar source.  

ColoradoSun

The SAE port on our previous 4-Wheel pop-up truck camper was made by Zamp and had the polarity reversed from most other brands. Does anyone know if that is the case with the 2021 T@B 400? I was able to just reverse the wiring on the plug in for our previous camper and assume that's an option.

ColoradoSun

Looking back through this thread it appears Denny16 has a nice solution allowing one to use the Victron app to monitor a separate controller for both the roof mounted and portable panels as well as the battery with the Victron BM712 installed.

kbdigitiqe

Wait so the 2021 400 BD has external solar panel inputs in addition to the factory roof solar? That’s amazing and unexpected! Can anyone point to a thread detailing this? Thanks!

ScottG

ColoradoSun said:

The SAE port on our previous 4-Wheel pop-up truck camper was made by Zamp and had the polarity reversed from most other brands. Does anyone know if that is the case with the 2021 T@B 400? I was able to just reverse the wiring on the plug in for our previous camper and assume that's an option.

@ColoradoSun, I believe that is a Zamp standard--something to do with not leaving the positive pin from the panels exposed. 

There have been several discussions about this over the years (here's a more recent one), many of which make it seem far more complicated than it is. Regardless of what approach you choose (swapping leads, new wiring, or a commercial adapter) just be sure to carefully confirm the polarity of all connections relative to your equipment and all will be fine!

Sharon_is_SAM

@ColoradoSun and @kbdigitiqe - just watched a nuCamp video on the 2021 400 TaB.  They refer to it as a “solar ready plug” and there is no Zamp sticker.   As Scott suggested - check the polarity.  Here is a picture - the bottom port on the driver’s side.

ChrisFix

@kbdigitiqe
I have a 2021 T@B 400 Boondock, which has factory solar on the roof, but it does NOT have an auxiliary solar jack.

pthomas745

@ColoradoSun The port on the trailer is an SAE port.  How the port is wired has nothing to do with Zamp.  Ignore all the internet chatter about "reverse polarity" or "wired backwards" or whatever they are calling it.

An SAE port is wired to accept an SAE cable.  It has nothing to do with Zamp or any other manufacturer.

Bottom line:  the port is wired so the big honking  metal part of the SAE cable that plugs into it is the negative lead from the solar controller.  The positive lead (the part that might cause sparks or short circuits) is safely tucked into the plastic part of the cable from the solar controller.

Nothing has been reversed.  This is exactly how the plug/cable is supposed to work.  Understand how and why it works, and wire it properly, and it is very easy to deal with.

I've run my solar panel through the SAE port for three years now.  No adapters, no rewiring, no problems.

ColoradoSun

Okay everyone, thanks. It probably had more to do with the Zamp solar controller on the other camper. In that case when I plugged in a Renogy solar panel into the SAE plug to a Zamp controller and blew a fuse until I reversed the wires coming from the panel. In this case there is no Zamp product involved. Live and learn.

bergger

ChrisFix said:

@kbdigitiqe
I have a 2021 T@B 400 Boondock, which has factory solar on the roof, but it does NOT have an auxiliary solar jack.

I think it depends on when you got your 2021 400.  We took delivery of our 2021 in March of this year and had the solar plug added as an after production modification.  It was supposed to be only a few bucks to do but when we go our invoice for the modifications the solar plug was omitted even though it was installed.  I questioned NuCamp about this and they said they decided not to charge us for it since they would be making it standard in the near future.  A nice gesture.  Not sure when they started to do that.  They put ours on the door side by the luggage door instead of the non-door side that it looks like they are doing now.  

ColoradoSun

We looked at one 2021 T@B 400 Boondock that did not have the extra solar plug and one that did.  We ended up purchasing the latter.

pthomas745

An owner a few months ago did this simple check with a multimeter on the SAE port.  The top part of the port should carry the positive lead from the solar controller. 

ColoradoSun

Thanks, I am going to get a multimeter.

pthomas745

Took me a while to sort out the "SAE" port.  And another good while to noodle around with the dusty multimeter I had for years but it always seemed "too hard." 

The port is a solar input...and it is also an electrical outlet (properly wired, of course). I've spliced a 12V cigarette plug to the end of an SAE cable, and I can attach a little inverter to run some little trailer lights, etc. 

Even better, using a multimeter like in the picture above is also an incredibly easy way to monitor your battery.  Turn the switch off, wait a bit and you can measure your "rested" battery without having to open up the battery box.

ColoradoSun

pthomas745I took your advice and got a multimeter to test the SAE port. I got same results with the red positive lead in the top and black in the bottom. However if I follow the black wire coming out of the solar charge controller to the MC4-SAE adapter it does not end at the exposed metal connector. I took a few photos.
1. Black wire coming from negative side of charge controller (Renogy).

2. I had purchased the MC4 - SAE  adapter on Amazon which if used puts the exposed metal connector on the red positive wire. 
3. The MC4-SAE adapter came with an adapter that makes the exposed metal connector on the black negative wire.

That would go into the lower end of the SAE plug on the outside of the T@B which the multimeter shown to be the negative.

Doing that should work and prevent a fuse blowing. Maybe there's something non-standard about that MC4-SAE adapter which is why they provided the adapter.  Next time I'll look closer to see before ordering. Hopefully this works.

Verna

“Zamp Port” is a nickname for the SAE port because Pleasant Valley Teardrop (name previous to nüCamp) always had a “Zamp Solar” decal next to the SAE port. 

Those who say the Zamp port is “reversed” look at the @pthomas745 explanation above. Zamp wisely kept the positive side on the covered end of the solar panel cords, so no fuses were blown if the exposed end of the solar panel plug touched metal. 

Zamp was the only manufacturer to wire the SAE plug this way, so users “think” Zamp is wired backwards, even though Zamp was the first solar panel manufacturer using the SAE plug. 

Yes, I like Zamp, and I still have my Zamp 200 watt suitcase that still has 19 years of warranty left on it. We will NOT discuss how old I will be when the warranty runs out.😂

pthomas745

@ColoradoSun, first of all...that is some good police work! Your final picture there will work on the SAE port on the trailer just fine. Nothing wrong with it.  If you are happy with that setup, stop reading. Happy Solaring!

You could eliminate the extra adapter at the end of the cable by....simply switching the red wire at the controller to the negative side, the black wire to the positive.   Job done.  Tag or mark the cable to keep things straight.

You could eliminate that MC4 to SAE adapter by purchasing an SAE cable. Like this one. Note what happens to the red wire on the right side of the photo.....goes from the big metal part.....to inside the plastic on the left side.

 

I cut off the connector on the right side, trimmed a bit of insulation off to expose about 1/4 to 1/2 inch of wire.    I wire the red wire to the +output of the solar controller.  Black to the negative.  No converters or adapters or extra connectors.  This will keep those who demand "the red wire has to be positive" happy. 

This cable is nice because it is fairly long.  You can buy SAE "pigtails" that I found to be way too short.  But, no matter what...the positive wire from the controller must terminate at the trailer's plug inside the plastic of the cable.  I have several cables with different colors and markings, and they all work, as long as I pay attention to that simple rule.  My "adapters" rust away in the bottom of my tool box. (My cable is 2 feet long, this one is only 1 foot...a little longer cable is much more convenient.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0057ZQJ12/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

ColoradoSun

Thanks for helping clarify. I did consider switching the black and red wires at the charge controller but it wasn't immediately obvious how to disconnect and reconnect them. I already had a 20' extension to put between the MC4 connectors coming from the charge controller and the MC4-SAE adapter. So I'll see how it works, knowing there are alternatives. 

One of the concerns I've had about the SAE plug is that the connection with the incoming wires does not seem that secure. On our previous camper there was a nearby bracket I could secure (with big twist ties) the incoming wires so the weight of wires wasn't pulling down on the plug connection. There's nothing like that on the side of the T@B. I'll figure out something.

DenisP

I used a Furrion Solar port for my Tab 400.  I choose it over an SAE connector as it was a more positive connection with a more substantial cover.  I also use a Furrion to MC4 connector for my 30ft. extension to my Renogy 100 w suitcase.

pthomas745

@ColoradoSun I'm not sure how your controller is installed, but the wiring screws into the bottom of the unit.  Very simple to rewire, if  you can get to it easily.

I swear..every single thing about solar controllers, MC4 connectors, etc....are ergonomic disasters.