Electric Tow Vehicle

RCB

Does anyone - would anyone ?

DougH

Would love to.  But new Hummer is $112k.  With the simplicity of pure EVs, the price of something that can tow 9000lbs should be well under a normal F-150.  Will keep an eye on the Rivian, and maybe a future Ford EV truck or large SUV.  Fingers crossed we get there in next five years.

4ncar

Not hopeful. Not so much the vehicle, but the charging infrastructure that one would need to truly see the country. Might be fine along the coasts, and even the Midwest, but north & west? Not in our lifetime (mine & im 58).

pthomas745

There have been a couple of Tesla owners who have checked in.  And, the charging infrastructure is bigger than I thought it was, but still limited to mostly the "main routes."  One report on page 2 of this thread.  Probably isn't optimum yet, but it is happening.

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/10449/t-b-400-tesla-model-x/p1

I swear there was a big trip report about a trip with a Tesla, but I'm not finding it......

DougH

@pthomas745 That may have been the TFL father and son team on YouTube?  They used a Tesla X to tow a small trailer across a few states.  Drove a bit too fast and had some overly dramatic range worries between charging stations. As I recall, they gave up two thirds of the way through the trip.

ChrisFix

Range and charging time/charger availability are going to be very limiting factors for the foreseeable future.
Towing with an EV is like towing with an ICE, it reduces range by about 50%. In my gas powered truck, that means an extra fuel up per travel day. In an EV it means not getting very far in a travel day.
Whether an EV will work for you as a tow vehicle will greatly depend on how and where you travel. And of course your budget, because all the EV trucks announced are going to be expensive - even the Tesla if you want the model with the big batteries.

DanManz

I recently heard some futurist on the radio predicting within the next 10 years we will all be driving EVs.  I mentioned this to my son who is even cheaper than I am.  He said; Dad, I was kind of hoping we would still be driving the same trucks we have today in 10 years!

Denny16

Good luck on finding gasoline in 10 or 20 years...  
cheers

Dutch061

Unfortunately phasing out of the internal combustion engine is bound to happen, but I believe (I could be very wrong) that it will take way more than 10 to 20 years. Short of the government giving vehicles away, developing the infrastructure for charging locations, creating a massive (and effective) public transportation system; I don't believe it is possible in this short time period.

Anyone who believes our government can afford this (27 Trillion in debt and climbing), please reach out to me. I have ocean front property in south FL for sale cheap.

Brad   

jkjenn

Denny16 said:

Good luck on finding gasoline in 10 or 20 years...  
cheers

Since many gas stations in small towns out west don't even have modern pumps, I doubt we will see a switch that quickly.

CharlieRN

ChrisFix said:

Range and charging time/charger availability are going to be very limiting factors for the foreseeable future.
Towing with an EV is like towing with an ICE, it reduces range by about 50%. In my gas powered truck, that means an extra fuel up per travel day. In an EV it means not getting very far in a travel day.
Whether an EV will work for you as a tow vehicle will greatly depend on how and where you travel. And of course your budget, because all the EV trucks announced are going to be expensive - even the Tesla if you want the model with the big batteries.

Agree that charger availability is the limiting issue now but it is a rapidly evolving situation.

The Combined Charging System is less well known than Tesla, but there are are over 2,400 CCS charging stations in the US while Tesla has about 1,100. EVs that use CCS charging (most marques except for Tesla) also have the option to plug in to a regular 110v outlet, though of course that method is time-consuming (about 15 miles of charge per hour).

In terms of future charging stations, Electrify America, funded by $2bn from VW as part of their diesel settlement, is aiming for 2,000 Level 3 (fast) chargers in the next two years. So yes, the availability of charging stations is presently somewhat limited, but not terribly so even now, and the situation is changing quickly. 

While fossil fuels will still be with us for quite a while, I think that the changeover to EVs is likely to be more rapid than many believe.

DougH

A shame they don't make an ebike that can pull a 320.  I did pull a trailer behind my recumbent etrike for a while so our old fur-baby could ride with us.  But that combination was 110lbs max, not 1800lbs.

m_lewis

I would love to have an EV that can pull our 400. Used to have an EV car, got it on lease for an absurdly low price, drove it every day for 3 years. Never had range anxiety, charge stations were easy to find and always far cheaper than an equivalent amount of gasoline. Yes, my home electric bill went up, but not nearly as much as my fuel bill decreased.
I think we may get close to the tipping point on EVs very soon. Already there on renewable energy, as it is now cheaper than coal or natural gas. Most major automotive manufacturers have stated they will be offering only EVs within a decade. If we had a national government that would lean its support toward renewables and EVs instead of continuing to favor the declining fossil fuel industry, it would happen far faster.
We need a coordinated infrastructure buildout, one that places charging stations in most business parking lots, especially ones where customers are likely to spend 30 minutes or more. Like restaurants, if we ever get to eat out again. While the market will drive the conversion, it will need appropriate legislation and standards to do it quickly. I don't think it must be government funded to any great extent, either directly or by tax incentives. I do think it will create a lot of well-paying jobs. For instance, there are more people employed now in the solar power industry, at higher wages, than are in the coal, oil, and gas industries combined.
It doesn't take a lot of imagination to see the trend towards EVs as connected and ramping up fast.

TNOutback

The technology, cost and infrastructure investment will have to change radically in order for an EV to be a feasible towing vehicle for RVs.  The model right now assumes most charging will be done at home, and very little infrastructure is in place between major metro areas, much less in rural, park or wilderness areas where camping occurs. Even more density of charging stations will be needed to charge towing EVs.  Never mind the much longer time you will need to budget for “refueling” an EV; weekend camping trips will involve more driving time and less camping time.  Let’s hope battery technology continues to progress, and adoption means we start seeing gas stations turn into charging stations.  I would love to see a charging station that gets me in and out in the same time it takes me to fill up the truck with gas.  I am concerned an “extended range” option on an EV pickup will be a multi-thousand $ option, instead of the $400 it is right now for an extended range gas tank.

Bill_F

Let the city people (food comes from the supermarket, doesn't it?) tell the farmers the internal combustion engine is being phased out in ten years...

pthomas745

Electric powered tractors already exist, and just like electric vehicles, they will become common...someday......

https://modernfarmer.com/2020/03/going-green-can-electric-tractors-override-diesel/

ColoradoSun

This doesn't apply to the question of towing camp trailers with an EV but most EVs will be charged at home most of the time. Most of the miles we drive are within 30 miles of home. An EV already makes sense as at least one of the two vehicles we own.

morey000

Electric vehicles have a ton of torque.  No doubt the trucks and SUVs that will be coming will have suitable tow capacities.  The current issue is of course- range and available charging stations.  Both of which will get much better in the next few years.  The Tesla Model X has a towing capacity of 5,000 lbs, and even the little model Y has 3,500 lb.  And with vehicles like the Cybertruck and GMC Hummer electric on the near horizon, no doubt- we will be able to tow our T@Bs.  Trips will take longer, as we'll need to stop more often and charge- but maybe our vehicles will drive themselves- so we won't mind.  Somehow- we'll still be able to have fun.  Not worried.  More - excited for the future.

here's a fun article  https://insideevs.com/news/454286/video-tesla-model-y-tow-travel-trailer/

IslandJo

I don't know where 'out west' is but in Washington, Oregon & California we have quite a robust charging grid for EVs. Every camping spot with electricity is a charging station. I see lots of people on this forum who don't like distances more than 250 miles per day, these trucks are going to do that and more on a single charge.  

I drive an EV now & it's so much fun that as soon as a truck is available that will tow a T@b, I'll be buying one. You have to drive an electric car to truly appreciate what a pleasure driving one can be. 

CharlieRN

morey000 said:

Electric vehicles have a ton of torque.  No doubt the trucks and SUVs that will be coming will have suitable tow capacities.  The current issue is of course- range and available charging stations.  Both of which will get much better in the next few years.  The Tesla Model X has a towing capacity of 5,000 lbs, and even the little model Y has 3,500 lb.  And with vehicles like the Cybertruck and GMC Hummer electric on the near horizon, no doubt- we will be able to tow our T@Bs.  Trips will take longer, as we'll need to stop more often and charge- but maybe our vehicles will drive themselves- so we won't mind.  Somehow- we'll still be able to have fun.  Not worried.  More - excited for the future.

here's a fun article  https://insideevs.com/news/454286/video-tesla-model-y-tow-travel-trailer/

I share your sentiment regarding EV's. There are several vehicles just coming to market with more than enough capability to tow and that should have the range that will make them viable as longer-distance TV's in some circumstances. A huge plus, at least from perspective, it that most EV's will be delivered with Level 3 autonomy, making long highway trips easier. Nearly all EVs also offer a path to L5 or 6 autonomy (Full Self Driving) which will be an incredible plus. How great would it be for example to pull up to a venue, and just jump out of the car and let it go park itself? Yeah I know, this is some way off but I think it will be here sooner than many think, although I admit that this could wishful thinking.

Getting back to earth, the Tesla CT has a projected towing capacity of 14,000 lbs and the tri-motor version is projected to offer range in excess of 500 miles. Towing a lighter, more aero load like a T@B 320 or even 400 will cut into that range significantly, but at 500 miles, the CT could be sufficient even for the present charging network. Of course, the aesthetics of the CT, not to mention the QA problems that seem to continually plague Teslas are concerns. Perhaps Tesla will figure things out by the end of the year when the CT is supposed to be available.

There are other near-term alternatives as well. Not only are some of them SUVs (Lordstown, Bollinger) rather than pickups, but also at least one (Rivian) will be in some driveways starting this summer.Early production Rivian pickups (R1T) have already been spotted in several states, and as noted, will start delivery this summer. The truck has 11,000 lb tow capacity but the Launch Model (the only one available this year) has only a 300 mile range. Starting in 2022, there will be a Max Range R1T that will have 400+ miles.

The Rivian SUV (R1S) will also start delivering in 2022, but again with only 300 mile range. The 400 mile version of the SUV may not be available until 2023.

By the time these vehicles start to hit the road in decent numbers (maybe mid-2022), the charging network should have expanded significantly as a result of Electrify America (funded by VW as part of the settlement for diesel engine fraud a couple of years back). Rivian is also building out their own "Adventure Network" that aims to put fast chargers in more remote locations such as near national parks and forests.

My present TV is getting a bit long in the tooth, and I really hope that her replacement can be an EV. I've actually made a low-stakes bet on that by putting a [refundable] deposit on an R1T. I'm not really a truck guy and would prefer the R1S if I can get it with the extended range battery pack. Just when that will be is bit of guess, but thankfully, Rivian allows you to change your order without penalty.

Just going to wait and see what happens.

GatorEgg

Nope, no way in my lifetime.  Many times we've been on the outskirts of gas stations.  And gas fueled vehicles have been around a couple years.  Maybe a little electric car for around town but not cross country.

m_lewis

GatorEgg said:

Nope, no way in my lifetime.  Many times we've been on the outskirts of gas stations.  And gas fueled vehicles have been around a couple years.  Maybe a little electric car for around town but not cross country.

I reckon that depends on your lifetime. I expect to see a rapid buildout of charging stations within this decade as more and more manufacturers commit to an all electric fleet. Don't know if that will be within my lifetime, but actuarial tables predict it will.

jkjenn

The EVs just aren't  practical for long range travel, at this point. It would add too much time to my trips.

Denny16

While they are not practical now, in the next five years that could change.  Gas cars are now in the same position as horse buggies were in the early 20th century when gas and electric cars were being first developed and marketed.
cheers

GatorEgg

m_lewis said:

GatorEgg said:

Nope, no way in my lifetime.  Many times we've been on the outskirts of gas stations.  And gas fueled vehicles have been around a couple years.  Maybe a little electric car for around town but not cross country.

I reckon that depends on your lifetime. I expect to see a rapid buildout of charging stations within this decade as more and more manufacturers commit to an all electric fleet. Don't know if that will be within my lifetime, but actuarial tables predict it will.

Lol.  I’m hoping for a few more decades.  But I took the OPs question as “would you?”.  That was my answer.  Nope, wouldn’t.  I’m not saying ev’s don’t have a future.  But just not my ownership as a out to the boonies, cross country tow vehicle.

ColoradoSun

I think most people are going to be surprised how soon EVs become the norm for most of the miles we drive. Towing camp trailers and other stuff may take longer.

dlb

I will buy an EV tow vehicle in the next few years as the primary TV for our boat, replacing our large SUV.  The vehicle we use for out Tab is a 2020, so it has legs and will be replaced with an EV when it is time.  No reason not to go with an EV at replacement time for either vehicle for the type of travel we do.  The commitment by Ford and GM plus the start ups for EVs is impressive.  The infrastructure for charging is rapidly being put in place.  Lots going in locally and a year ago I was surprised by how many stations were already in Yellowstone and on my New Years cross country trip.