Expect porpoising to be better or worse 400 from 320

kbdigitiqe

Our Nissan Frontier TV does just fine with our 320 BD but there are certain types of “wavy” roads that cause some pretty brutal porpoising - specifically ALL of I-80 in Iowa for some reason when we travel back to the Midwest... soooo frustrating. 

Anyway, we are upsizing to the 400 this spring and I’m curious (and blindly hopeful!) whether maybe the longer, heavier trailer might actual bounce less than the 320?

Any thoughts? Thanks y’all!

falcon1970

There are many factors at play here:  speed of travel, distance between the crests of the "waves," distance between the wheels of the tow vehicle and the trailer axle, weight of the trailer, and so on.  The one you can most easily control is the speed you travel on the wavy roads.  Driving slower will disrupt the harmonics between the vehicle and the trailer.  As with everything, though, that may not be all of the solution.
The 400 is longer than the 320 so that in itself may change the mechanics of the problem.  I doubt there is any way to know what will happen until you actually tow a 400 along the wavy road.  But when you get the trailer synchronized between the bounces in the trailer and the bounces in the road slowing down will certainly help.

kbdigitiqe

@falcon1970 thanks, prob true no point in speculating at this point. Fwiw we had about 400 miles across Iowa to try near everything to adjust to the waves including slowing down .. but never could get it to go away. Seems to be specifically the white colored, grooved highways that are the trigger.. shrug!

pthomas745

Have you tried a hitch stabilizer?

Denny16

I doubt hitch stabilization would help, most friction systems create more problems than the solve.  The answer is in speed, as previously mentioned and size/weight of the trailer load.  The bigger/heavier the trailer on the same TV, could create more bounce action, depending on the tongue weight to trailer ratio.  

A TV with soft rear springs is going to porpoise more on a wavy road than a stiffer spring rated for the cargo/trailer tongue weight.  I had a small issue with this on dirt fore roads with dips, on my Jeep Gladiator, changing the springs/shocks to thr MaxTow Package reduced the issue.

Another factor is trailer loading, keeping the cargo weight between the axles and tow hitch, watch how much weight you add behind the axle.  Overall trailer weight will also be a factor, a lighter or empty trailer will bounce more than a heavy or loaded trailer.  

That said, I would not use a Nissan Frontier S to tow a TaB400, as it has:

• 3,800 pounds for Frontier King Cab S 

The newer Nissan Frontier Crew cab with the 4.0L V6, and a 6,000 lbs towing Capacity factory towing package should work, as long as the tongue weight is 500 lbs or greater.

Bottom line from what I have experienced and read from experts in the towing industry, slowing down the trailer and TV (slowly, no sudden braking) is the first solution to controlling trailer sway or porpoising.  Studies have shown, you need to keep a travel trailer being towed by vehicles like mid size trucks or SUVs, need to keep the speed to 62mph (100kph) or less.  Australia has a max tow speed set at 100kph, California sets its max tow speed at 55mph.  These are good examples to follow.
Cheers 

Dalehelman

Rear shocks on the TV could be a big factor. I would try some premium aftermarket ones. IMHO the center axel would contribute the most to a porpoising issue 

kbdigitiqe

@Denny16 my 2020 Frontier SV is rated for 6,640 lbs towing. thanks for the input re: speed though that's quite helpful

atlasb

we had a 16 frontier, cc v6 and pulled a 320 for awhile.  I noticed hitch rattle and other wise not much issues. I did add Timbren SES springs for better leveling and support.  We upgraded to a 2018 400 when they became available.  I feel the 400 actually pulls better than the 320.  No more hitch rattle.  I do know that if you carry a partial load of fresh water, it is possible to get side to side sway under some conditions.  The water will slosh from side to side.  We usually tow empty with out water.  We have since updated to a 2017 Titan for a tow and feel that we actually get a little better mileage.

kbdigitiqe

@atlasb good to know thanks! will take a look at those springs too. did you use a brake controller as well? (we never bothered to get one for our 320 and 8,000 miles later we're just fine but assuming we'll need one for the 400)

BirdieJane

We have had a 320 and now a 400. For us it had much less bounce then the 320.

Verna

kbdigitiqe said:

@atlasb good to know thanks! will take a look at those springs too. did you use a brake controller as well? (we never bothered to get one for our 320 and 8,000 miles later we're just fine but assuming we'll need one for the 400)

1. Colorado Revised Statutes Title 42. Vehicles and Traffic § 42 ...

   codes.findlaw.com/co/title-42-vehicles-and...

   (c) Every trailer or semitrailer of a gross weight of three thousand pounds or more, when operated upon a highway, shall be equipped with brakes adequate to control the movement of and to stop and to hold such vehicle and so designed as to be applied by the driver of the towing motor vehicle from the cab, and said brakes shall be so designed and connected that in case of an accidental breakaway of the towed vehicle the brakes shall be automatically applied.

atlasb

kbdigitique, yes, we use the Tekshona P3 brake controller.  The Frontier needed the adapter cable to plug and play.  Have had good luck with it. You do want the brake control for the 400 and probably really the 320 also.  Found no need for sway control or hitch equalizer.  A lot of times sway may be induced by speed.  Found the sweet spot for us towing both to be about 62 mph.  The V6 engine liked the rpm range there. 

kbdigitiqe

@atlasb thanks appreciate it!

kbdigitiqe

And @Verna thanks, I’m aware of the laws which is why I said we’d be getting a brake controller for the 400. The 320 was fine without it in every state except Idaho and North Carolina.

AirBoss

Had a similar issue...not drastic but wanted it reduced or corrected . Upgraded shocks to Bilsteins HD and replaced rear coils with Moog HD. Helped significantly. Rarely tow above 60 and slower when encountering "waves". Much more comfortable.

Highly recommend Takonsha Prodigy RF controller. Rock solid, transferable to any TV without reprogramming, does not consume Bluetooth bandwidth. 

TresK3

Question on the Colorado laws (and other states, I'm sure).  It appears to me to say that the trailer has to have brakes "adequate to ... stop and hold the trailer."  Don't all NuCamp 320's and 400's come with brakes?
The statute doesn't seem to me to address brake controllers, just brakes.  Maybe I don't understand brake controllers.

Note: I'm not dissing brake controllers, just trying to understand the laws.

Verna

@TresK3, nüCamp installs the brakes on every T@B and some T@G’s so they are giving the new owners the ability to follow the different laws in different states. For instance, New York requires brakes on trailers over 1,000 lbs empty. Here is AAA’s statement for New York’s trailer brake law:  “ Trailers weighing over 1,000 pounds unladen, and trailers having a maximum gross weight in excess of 3,000 pounds, must be equipped with brakes. Brakes must be adequate to control the vehicle at all times, be in good working order and must comply with the standards set by the Commissioner for brake efficiency.”

But, the owner has the responsibility to connect the brakes to the tow vehicle. This is done either by the brake controller, or the newer tow vehicle’s built-in brake controllers.  

TresK3

So I thought the power to the brakes came from the 7-pin connector.  Is that not true?

VictoriaP

TresK3 said:

So I thought the power to the brakes came from the 7-pin connector.  Is that not true?

Power alone doesn’t signal the brakes to work. A proportional controller is required to activate the brakes in proportion to the pressure you apply to the brake pedal. No controller = no brakes = violating the law in many states.

Denny16

California also requires brakes on trailers the size tomthe TaB320 and up.  

Some trailers have surge brakes (think boat trailers and rental trailers), which do not require a Tow Vehicle,brake controller.  RV travel trailers, including thenTaBs/TaGs have electric brakes, which do require a brake controller on the TV.  You can add some wireless controllers, like the Kurt Echo, which does not require special wiring to the TV.
cheers.

jkjenn

I have taken many trips all of the way across I-80 in Iowa and not really experienced what you described.

Shocks might be part of it. My Jeep GC has an air suspension and is self leveling. 

Another thought might be to look at whether you have too much weight behind the axle. Are you driving with full tanks, for example?

kbdigitiqe

Hey @jkjenn that is interesting to hear. Our Frontier is very “bouncy” to drive even when we’re not towing though so I’m not terribly surprised to hear that your GC doesn’t do that. I’m pretty convinced by this thread that some sort of suspension add on is the solution. 

Also yes, we travel fully loaded (water and a pretty full truck bed) because we really only Boondock camp and so we’re not trying to stop and fill up water the last few miles every time before we head to our campsites. Unless y’all know a better way?

jkjenn

I don't know for sure if that will make a difference, but it might be worth exploring and expirementing to fill closer to the CG.  

I recognize it isn't always an option and it is a bit of an inconvenience because it can be tricky to find potable water and it takes a bit to fill the tank.

Tundra57

@kbdigitiqe

I have a toyota Tundra with a tab 400 2019.

Same problem as you. Air bags, bilsteins nothing stops it. I tried sn anderson chain equising Hitch. It does seem better, but not gone.

N7SHG_Ham

Some of this may depend on expansion joint spacing and wheelbase of vehicle. There is a section of I5 between Olympia and Seattle in Washington state where my full size extended cab truck flat out bucks, stuff is jumping up and down in the seat, pretty much have to slow down to get it to go away, a harmonic sets up and amplifies with speed.

kbdigitiqe

Interesting update here wonder what y’all think. Today I had to haul a bunch of heavy materials in my Frontier with the bed extender down (not towing anything) and had terrible porpoising on a section of the interstate! 

So now I know basically any weight on the back end of the truck causes it to do this, any ideas for the best solution? Probably some kind of suspension upgrade?

Denny16

That might work, or just slow down your towing speed.  Parts of the old Calif.
101 Hwy in NorCal had concrete road bed sections that cupped, and would cause most vehicles to go up and down if you drove more than 50 mph on this highway.  Slowing down reduced or Eli the issue.  Eventually CalTeans replaced the roadway and eliminated the issue. 

A weak rear suspension towing a heavy tongue weight trailer will porpoise even at slow speeds when going over pumps or dips.  You need to match your TV to the trailer specifications, and the rear of the TV should not go down more than an inch when the trailer is connected.  If it does, you need a stiffer rear suspension or add air bags, helper springs or get a better suited TV.

If you had porpoising with a 320, it will be worse with the heavier tongue weight on the 400.
cheers

kbdigitiqe

Ordered Timbrens gonna give them a whirl.. here's hoping!