Antifreeze Leaking

JabGopher

OK Folks - After about 2 months since winterizing w/ antifreeze, I went into the trailer to take some measurements. Afterwards, I just decided to take my flashlight and give everything a look over. Then I noticed that the floor was reflective beneath the driver's side under-bench plumbing area.

I went to feel it and it was oily and with a white paper towel, I could tell that it was my purple antifreeze. It wasn't puddled, but more a thin film of it on the floor from the back wall where the water pump is, to about halfway forward of the Alde system. There was none on the other side of the partition, where the outside shower plumbing was.

For now, I cleaned up the floor and laid down dry, white pieces of paper towel underneath the plumbing and one on top of the Alde vent tubing to catch anything that might drip from the pump.

Has anyone experienced this? Any guesses or clues? I tried to feel the underneath the water pump and different pex tubing and joints ... but it was difficult to tell.

mona

Just out of curiosity, what kind of antifreeze did you use? RV antifreeze is pink. 

Jeannie

ScottG

Things have changed a bit with newer models, so I'm not familiar with the exact plumbing layout of the 2021s. Regardless, I would start by looking for any threaded connectors--these have been historically used to connect the water pump and city water fill port to the distribution system and have a tendency to loosen up and cause small leaks. You may have to do some creative contortions, but try to get a hand on any of those and gently snug them up as needed.

Actual leaks in the plumbing itself are rare, but they do happen to rare lucky individuals.  ;-)

JabGopher

@mona: I used West Marine -60F antifreeze. Alcohol-free propylene glycol. 

@ScottG: yes I guess I need to try and snug all those up. Interesting enough, I never had any issues when water was in the system. 

Michigan_Mike

My first thought was the water pump.  That would be my guess or as Scott noted, you could be one of them lucky individuals.  ☠️🤣😬

jrhamel

I had the same issue this year after winterizing. Turned out the plastic pipe above the bathroom sink trap had broken where it threads into the trap. It was a bit of a pain because access to the trap is through the outside shower. 

mntrails

I was checking my T@B in storage today and noticed the same thing in the same area.  Just a bit of pink antifreeze under the driver's side seat - enough to make a 10" diameter shiny spot on the floor.  I felt around the hoses and found a drop on the hose that goes to the mixing valve.  I had some slight leak issues after taking delivery so have gone through and re-tightened fittings by hand last fall but they still could have loosened up again.  I'm wondering if enough pressure would come from the RV antifreeze 'slushing' in extreme cold to push a handfull of drops out of a crimped hose connection. We did have a couple nights well into the -20s.  I'l be taking it out of storage and de-winterizing in another couple weeks and let others know what I find. 

ScottG

@mntrails, I'd probably ask the same (hopeful) question, but generally speaking a leak is a leak and it probably won't go away on its own.

I had a similar tiny leak at a crimped fitting. Unfortunately it was in the bowels behind the toilet and required cutting a hole in the wall to get to it. I replaced it with a Shark Bite fitting since the space was too tight for a crimping tool. At least in your case it sounds like the offending fitting is in a more accessible location!

mntrails

As usual @Scottg, you're probably right but ...hope springs eternal!.  I'll connect up to city water with white paper towels under the nautilus area and start looking for drops when I dewinterize.  I don't have experience with pex but have a feeling I may be headed that way.  The one connection I'm suspicious of is the std. hose going to the mixing valve.  Although there is what I'll call a 'crimped band' on that one, it would be easy to remove and install a regular hose clamp.  We'll see. 

ScottG

@mntrails, let us know what you find when you dewinterize. Who knows, maybe you will get lucky!

If not, FWIW, I don't thing a regular hose clamp will cut it to stem the flow. Those crimped bands (and there are a couple of different types) are applied at high force with a special tool. The tools and bands are readily available at your local Big Box home store, so if you do decide to take up plumbing as your next hobby you should be able to get what you need without much difficulty.  :-)

N7SHG_Ham

I have a small drip as evidenced by pink stain at mixing valve on my 400, but never with water only. I think the antifreeze can get out when water can't, meaning a water test may not show the leak. It may also be that there typically isn't pressure with antifreeze and the pressure may actually be sealing fittings? Another possibility is leak only when real cold, I have had vehicle coolant leaks that only showed up with cold engine when way below freezing.

JabGopher

Welp. As @ScottG mentioned, the leak did not go away.

Today I went to sanitize and while filling the fresh tank (with pressure regulator) and afterwards, while I was flushing the lines ... the same spot started to pool water.

After much digging around and cleaning and turning the water on and off, I noticed where it was dripping.

The leak is just behind the city water / tank fill inlet, precisely where that threaded fitting connects the trailer piping into the black adapter that's on the back of the Nautilus.

I'm going to have to unscrew that and have a look at the gasket that's in there and maybe put some teflon thread tape on it to see if that helps. It's certainly threaded on there tightly. My one concern is that it seems to be leaking on both ends of the threaded fitting so maybe the teflon tape won't do any good to stop both leaks. The other concern is that the leak is not from the backside of the fitting, but rather on the adjacent metal one-time clamp....that won't be so easy to replace.

 
We leave for 2 days on a trip ... at least I'm glad we didn't figure this out while on the campground. 

mntrails

I dewinterized today.  The anti-freeze is all flushed out using both city water and the pump.  I'm sanitizing now and will dump that tomorrow and fill the hot water tank.  So  far - no sign of the leak that dropped some antifreeze on the floor.  I keep checking both on the floor and the underside of the all joints. 

I do like the one theory that says when the plastic fittings get to -20F, they shrink a little and small leaks can happen - and they go away when the material expands once its back above zero or freezing... I'm hopeful!

On a related topic, what's the general consensus on how tight all the threaded pipe fittings should be in the nautilus area? Mine were barely hand tight on delivery and I did get some drippage from the external shower area after some driving. I went through and tightened each a little more but my wrist/finger torque wrench is pretty sketchy.  After thinking about it a bit more, I'm inclined to gently check each fitting one more time, take some ptfe teflon tape along for good measure and just travel and keep an eye out. It would be pretty easy to over-tighten one of them and cause a lot more trouble to fix it. Opinions?

JabGopher

My issue seemed to be the gasket on the threaded fitting. The leaky one was clearly different and thinner than the gasket in the other fitting. I added a #10 o-ring behind both and, knock on wood, through several fill and use cycles it hasn’t leaked again. 

That said, what I’ve read is to have it hand tight plus one or two “turns”. And no Teflon tape on plastic / pvc threading as that acting like a lubricant will stretch the threads and doesn’t actually act like a sealant.