Alde Glycol fluid empty

Bclarke

@Sharon_is_SAM yes I have been running the Alde.  Trying to keep it at about 45.  It seems to have been working just fine.  I added more glycol and tapped on the valve … stay tuned! 

Bclarke

@BrianZ … fingers crossed your are correct!  Thanks @Denny16  unfortunately I have to get home first … with some pretty chilly nights. :-) but yes.. will take to dealer when I am able for a few other things too. 

BrianZ

Not sure if this was previously mentioned, but that air bleed valve assembly is designed to be level, which is why they have a plastic bracket attached to support the main hose exiting the valve.  If tilted, it may get stuck & not work properly.

BrianZ

@Bclarke, were you at high elevation at the time of your glycol losses? 
I am wondering if, at high elevation, your Alde may have experienced a condition similar to divers getting decompression sickness upon returning to lower atmospheric pressure ("the Bends"); where dissolved gasses (mostly nitrogen in the atmosphere) come out of solution.  Before you laugh, hear me out..
Someone in Europe reported in a thread about glycol leakage about hearing of this phenomenon from Alde, and that it can be as much as two liters.  If this were to happen inside the glycol hoses, the expanding gases would push the fluid into whatever space or drain is available without resistance.  I believe this would likely be the expansion tank overflow drain (not the air vent, but it could be that too if it occurred fast enough to over flow the tank.  And if your cap was loose, it might exit there too).
I lost the link, but here's a screenshot I saved about this report by someone who had observed unexplained glycol losses..

Further, if gases were released everywhere inside the lines, it would then rise to the high points, impeding full filling of the lines until the air worked its way out (which would be assisted by the air bleeder valve,  and temporarily turning up the pump speed a few notches).  I've never heard of this phenomenon before, but this scenario seems to fit what you reported, as well as explaining, I think, all of your observations.

Bclarke

@BrianZ… huh.   It actually sounds plausible.  We are currently at 5400’.  We have a small place in the mountains with our TaB parked outside.  I am trying to keep the heat on as it is pretty chilly here (16 degrees this AM). I also ensure that we are at level (we were nose low) too.   I refilled to the min mark … so fingers crossed!  

Update:  2.5 hours later … glycol has been pumped to the ground again!  Geesh .. no dealers for hours of where I am or going.  Argh.  Makin a call tomorrow.  Stay tuned!

This is an image of under the camper - right under the glycol tank.  I can’t see where it is actually coming out but can see the glycol on the black wire wrap.  

Sharon_is_SAM

Well, this is odd.  Usually if you have an air block you won’t be able to heat the cabin.  But clearly the glycol is circulating to at least some convectors.  It may help to confirm that all the hoses leading to the convector fins are actually heating.  They are located under both side benches, along the rear wall and I read the 2021 has one in the bathroom.  

You probably know that you should not run the Alde without adequate glycol.  I wonder if you should just shut it down?  If you need heat, do you have an electric heater?

BrianZ

I'm wondering where the glycol tank overflow clear tube exits through the floor on these new models with tank behind toilet?
If you had a tight cap on the glycol tank, that might at least prevent overflow onto the floor.  Have you tried wrapping tank threads with tape to seal the cap, as previously suggested?  Also thinking you may want to put the end of the air vent tub into a container, like an empty plastic drink bottle to catch any overflow there as well.
I suppose it could also be coming out of the tank overflow tube, but where does that exit under the floor?  Surely, Nucamp wouldn't have used the same hole as used for wiring?
What a mystery!

Sharon_is_SAM

@Bclarke - did you look at the Alde Flow Assembly?  Is it level?  Any leakage?  I would also check the auto bleeder hose for glycol and maybe put a pan under that outlet, too.

Bclarke

update:  so at the great suggestions of everyone here is what I have done and discovered:

Ensured trailer is level (was nose down and slightly lower on drivers side) - this condition allowed the glycol to exit right underneath the tank.  But when level I noticed it elsewhere including on the step tucked under the door. 

This discovery led me to look closer at the tank.   Using a black light (another great suggestion) I found lots splatter on the wall behind the tank and down the lines.  

This leads me to believe that the leak is actually at the bottom on the tank where the black line exits the tank.  Before I remove the entire tank and replace the clamps I am trying Creed at NuCamp for something I may missed.  We shall see! 

Bclarke

So … having fun yet?  No!! $&!@!$#

I am convinced that the leak is a) a hose connection on the bottom of the tank or b) a cracked tank.  I tried to get to a dealer here in MT but they wouldn’t even consider an appointment until late January.  However I leave next week for home.  I then talked to my dealer back home and also gained some input from Creed at NuCamp.  

Upon closer inspection I could feel that the left tube (when facing the wall) was not tight on the plastic nipple. As a result I started to jump in as suggested and pull out the tank.  For those that have tried this you know there is very little room or maneuverability.  I removed the two screws holding the tank and removed the the clamp holding the breathing tube in place.  Then I removed the overflow tube … and kerplunk… the little metal insert nipple to which the plastic tube attaches to the tank fell into the tank… and right into one of the tubes in the bottom.  Seriously????    

Since the tank was loose .. no problem.  Oh wait .. even though the tank is loose there is no and I mean NO flex in the tubes on the bottom.  I cannot move the tank at all much less lift it out.  What the heck…. I could probably get the hoses off (somehow) but there will be no way to reattach them given that the tank would be in the way.  How am I supposed to the tank off and reattached?  I am beyond frustrated. 

At this point I am about to give up .. will see if I can get the piece out tomorrow.  If all else fails, hopefully I can get into a dealer in the spring.  But I sure would love to figure this out so I can get some heat.  Sigh… 

Sharon_is_SAM

Yeah, there have been several owners with broken/cracked tanks.  The tip off was the glycol dripping under the TaB onto the steps.  Bummer.  Good to know about the little metal piece holding the overflow tube in place.  I wonder if you will need to remove the toilet to access the Alde hosing and tank?

Sneakle

Bclark you might want to look at my current thread about my tank leaking and removing it. But you have a later model than my 2018 so things will look somewhat different. What might be the same is the location of the leak that I found where the hose connects on the bottom of the expansion tank. Taking my take out today so hope it's easier to remove than what you noted on yours. 

Sneakle

Bclark I removed my tank today. It was not too hard to loosen the hose clamps with small channel lock pliers, squeezing all the way in, the clamps slide down easily. Then I was able twist back and both with the pliers on the hose to pull them loose. This allowed me to pull the tank down and out instead of up and out.  

Bclarke

@Sneakle thank you.  The problem is that I can’t get the right hose at all because of the bath sink plumbing and barely to the left one. I honestly don’t know how this is serviced.  There is simply no room to get at it all.  

BrianZ

@Bclarke, is there a panel in the front, behind/above the toilet that can be removed to allow some access to the hose connections from the front?

Bclarke

Yes sort of… but you see that without removing the plumbing my hands don’t fit.  To remove the top left screw of the tank I used a short “stub” screwdriver and then used a wrench at 90’ on the handle to turn it.  Not even enough room for the screwdriver.  Sigh. 

N7SHG_Ham

This makes me very glad I have a 400 with the tank in the wardrobe closet. Easy access!

I don't understand why manufacturers don't think about service when they build inaccessible stuff.

And yes, the tanks cracking and leaking is more common than one would hope, you aren't the first.

BrianZ

Yeah, that does look like a pain, @Bclarke.
I'm wondering if you can get your phone camera down in there to examine the tank with photos or video.  Be careful though!  Maybe use a selfie stick with a secure grip.

Bclarke

I did take lots of pics but really hard to tell much.  I am almost (almost) certain that it is the hose but I can’t get in there to verify or tighten. Sigh.. 

Sneakle

If it were an older camper I might consider some creative redesign, like having a woodshop cut that wall panel and replacing with some sort of removable panel. I wonder if NuCamp, could suggest how to access and remove the tank in the camper that they designed?