Towing a TaB400 with undersized TV

Denny16

There have been lists of discussions of towing a TaB400 with small SUVs and Jeep Wranglers. A TV that is too light or being pushed to its limit towing a trailer like a TaB400 is a bad idea to start.  Also having a TV with too short a wheelbase can end up in an accident, as well as towing too fast (more than 60mph) when you are at the max limit of your TV.  

A vehicle’s max tow rating is based on towing an average trailer, not a big boxy Travel trailer.  

 Here is an example ave a max frontal area rating which also has to be taken into account.  A RV also has a larger side surface area, which can catch side gusts of wind and create a roll over.  You need to take the TV size, wheel base, and weight/mass compared to the trailer being towed.  It is more than just the trailers GVWR and tongue weight.  A TV needs to be able to handle the mass/weight and any wind loads on that trailer.  The shorter thenTV wheel base, the less control that TV will have on a given trailer. 

Here is an example of what can happen when you are towing a trailer the size and weight of a TaB400 with an undersized TV, in this case a Jeep Wrangler 4-door JKU ( (actually a 2-door, short wheel base Jeep Wrangler).  Even a larger 4-door JKU or JLU would be overtaxed by this trailer load.
Note this ends badly:  https://youtu.be/8nNpf-jYWdg

Something to think about before you hitch up a large trailer like a TaB400 or a small TV.  Happy travels and please be safe...
Cheers

Marceline

Wow. I recognize that exact spot. I've been by there with my boat trailer and T@B trailer many times over the years.

Tampakayaker

This was one of the comments on that video, mentioned the same thing you stated...

I had three of those TJ Wranglers over the years, all six cylinders with manual transmissions. They're rated for towing 2,000lbs, and trailers with a front surface area under a certain square footage, I don't remember exactly what it was. I've only towed small, low-profile utility trailers with them, always kept them under 1,000lbs, and always used an anti-sway setup. Person in this video is an idiot, and lucky nobody got seriously hurt or killed.


PersonalIy, I would rather have a TV that can control a trailer then the trailer controlling the TV.

I know in some instances you may run into unforeseen circumstances that will tax any TV and your driving skills, but a TV that is more than adequate may save your butt in the long run.

We were lucky to already own a TV that could handle our 320 when we purchased it.

With the price of new/used TVs I can see where people want to utilize what they already own.

I wouldn't want to tow any trailer bigger than a  small pop up, with anything less than a full sized truck.

AnOldUR

First thing I noticed is no brake lights as the driver exited the parking lot. Probably means the trailer brakes (if it has them) were not working. My TV is a Wrangler JK 2D, but I try to keep my T@B 320S under the 2000lb limit and am installing a friction sway bar. Had no problem pulling it home from the dealer without the sway bar, but the manual brake controller in the cab was set up by the dealer and it's use explained. I'll bet that double axle trailer weighs over 3 grand and is way over the 200lb tongue weight limit.

edit to say, it still put fear in me to see this . . . .

NorCalMike

This is an issue I have struggled over last year while deciding what trailer to buy.   I have a 2019 Honda Ridgeline with tow rating of 5K and ordered a TAB 400 two weeks ago.  My goal is to keep trailer under 3500 lbs but I will confess this has worried me since new to towing.   That was a little scary to watch...

webers3

Thanks for pointing to possible problems with towing with undersized  TV but sorry folks, there is no way to tell from this video what really caused this to happen, you are making an assumption. 

webers3

Tampakayaker said:

I wouldn't want to tow any trailer bigger than a  small pop up, with anything less than a full sized truck.

Do you consider 320 bigger  than a small  pop-up? There are plenty of folks towing 320s and 400 with less then a full truck. One of the reasons I and many others buy a small trailer is precisely because we don’t want to drive a full sized truck. 

Denny16

Correct, the actual cause of this situation is not fully known, but the trailer started swaying side to side then increased and the drive lost control, and the trailer flipped the entire rig over.  This combination of small TV and large trailer was an accident waiting to happen.  

A Winnebago Mini Winnie is about the same size and dry weight is 3,200 to 3,860 lbs.  So the trailer in the video was definitely oversized for the Jeep JKU, or any Jeep Wrangler.  As for trailer brakes, that is another unknown, and the trailer could have a bad brake light, but nice catch.
cheers

MuttonChops

NorCalMike said:

This is an issue I have struggled over last year while deciding what trailer to buy.

. . . have a 2019 Honda Ridgeline with tow rating of 5K and ordered a TAB 400 two weeks ago.

Back in 2018 I did some quick calculations of a Ridgeline+T@B400 rig and found the numbers very concerning.  Suggest you:
 [A]  search this forum for owner experience with that rig
 [B]   use web-site listed in picture below to run your own calculations

2018 Ridgeline & T@B 400

bergger

I towed all sorts of trailers for years with a Tacoma.  All smaller trailers from 12' to 17' and between 800 and about 2800lbs.   The the largest a 17' popup trailer weighing about 2800lbs, not even a travel trailer.  I feel I have a pretty good understanding how a midsize or smaller vehicle would handle a T@b 400, in ideal conditions and in less than ideal conditions.  That is why when we ordered our T@b 400 I traded in the Tacoma and got a full size pickup prior to taking delivery of the 400.  I did not want to find myself in a situation I did not want to be in and feel much more comfortable and safe towing with the Titan.   I know a lot of the newer midsize trucks and vehicles have all sorts of fancy electronic sway control stuff but not a risk I was willing to take.  There is something to say about width, length, wheel base, weight, overall mass, larger differentials, axles, brakes and horsepower etc.  Stuff fancy electronics can't give you.  

ChrisFix

@MuttonChops
I don't understand how that calculator is coming up with it's numbers. The Ridgeline has over 1,500 lbs. of payload, 5,000 lbs. tow limit, and 600 lbs. tongue weight limit.
There is no way that the T@B 400, even with 500 lbs. of tongue weight (which is very high for the 2021 model - mine scales at under 400 lbs.) puts the rear axle over it's rating.

And in actual use, the Ridgeline tows the T@B 400 incredibly well. It's only failing is that it needs an additional 10 gals. of gas tank capacity for long distance trips. I've towed my 2021 400 over 10,000 miles with a 2020 Ridgeline and it has been flawless. 

qhumberd

@Denny16 Thanks for this reminder and I also feel that wheelbase of the TV is a big factor in safe towing. Also I have been noting that the MPG of the smaller tow vehicles when towing is about the same as for the larger TVs with the 400, around 12 mpg. So not a lot of benefit for the increased risk on that front. I read and researched several sources and came to the same conclusion that I would be happier with a full size 1/2 ton truck for my 400. I have not regretted it.

Tampakayaker

webers3 said:

Tampakayaker said:

I wouldn't want to tow any trailer bigger than a  small pop up, with anything less than a full sized truck.

Do you consider 320 bigger  than a small  pop-up? There are plenty of folks towing 320s and 400 with less then a full truck. One of the reasons I and many others buy a small trailer is precisely because we don’t want to drive a full sized truck. 

This is my opinion and erring on the side of caution.  I also don’t tow faster than 60, and usually are between 55 and 60.

Everyone has their own opinion on what they consider adequate and safe and I stand by feeling that anything less then a full size truck is taking a chance.

To each his own.

MuttonChops

ChrisFix said:

@MuttonChops
I don't understand how that calculator is coming up with it's numbers.

. . . towed my 2021 400 over 10,000 miles with a 2020 Ridgeline and it has been flawless. 

1st:  In 2018 T@B 400 tongue was much, much higher.
2nd:  Use the web-site calculator for your specific Ridgeline & T@B model year
          and your typical loading . . . while the Ridgeline is doing well you might be
          pushing axle load limits (something most folks don't check)

What is most important . . run your numbers for your rig then decide.

P.S.  Glad you are having a positive experience with this TV - T@B combination

Tabulating

I am pretty sure that is TJ 2-door.

It is not a 4-door JKU. 

Tabulating

It appears the TJ in the video has either a 1K or possibly 2K towing capacity.  It also doesn't appear to have the brakes properly connected. 

As mentioned early, if someone is willing to hook up a trailer so far outside their allowed rating, we have no idea what other reasonable precautions they did not take.

The JKU is rated for 3.5K That is not a JKU.

Denny16

Yes Tabullating, it is a 2-door, which makes this situation even worse.  The first shot went by so fast, I was going by the Shot of the Jeep on its side.  I corrected my original post.  But this could have been the same results with a JKU or JLU 4-door in this situation.  Definitely overloading a TJ or JK 2-door Jeep.
cheers

TomCanada

This topic always fascinates me - in the UK, the exact same car can tow sometimes more than 1000 pounds more than the identical car in North America, mostly because a) in the UK they limit towing speeds to 60mph (versus 'the limit' in the USA/Canada), and b) in the UK they recommend 4-7% tongue weights, which allow the cars to tow more, at the expense of dynamic stability (another reason they limit to 60mph).  

On the SUV vs truck topic, you don't *need* a truck, but on the flip side, you know with a truck you just set it and forget it.  Much less obsessing over your car's wheelbase, tow limits, payloads, etc. - especially with a Tab.  I personally don't like trucks so am holding out with a (capable) mid sized SUV as long as possible, but I absolutely get the appeal of a truck.  Who knows - maybe someday..

MuttonChops

TomCanada said:

This topic always fascinates me - in the UK, the exact same car can tow sometimes more than 1000 pounds more than the identical car in North America, mostly because a) in the UK they limit towing speeds to 60mph (versus 'the limit' in the USA/Canada), and b) in the UK they recommend 4-7% tongue weights, which allow the cars to tow more, at the expense of dynamic stability (another reason they limit to 60mph). 

Actually the EU towing rating are based on 45 MPH, who in NA drives at 45-MPG on an open road.

Denny16

In UK, they had a 50-55mph limit, which recently was changed to 60mph on some highways, but most roads in Europe and UK, you are lucky to get up to 50mph.
EU/UK have longer trailer tongues, which reduce the tongue weight, and different coupler systems, which are more of a poster locking on the hitch ball.  They also use surge brakes on more RV trailers than we do.  The Dutchman TaB was a UK/Eu setup on the tongue and trailer weight distribution.

Also, the EU trailers have a longer tongue setup and locking hitch, which gives lighter tongue weights that we have here.
cheers