Placement of EMS

CharlieRN

I plan to install a PI EMS LCHW30 RV in our new 320 BD this weekend. While there's plenty of room in the underseat area, mounting it so that the display is visible is a bit of a challenge.  It would be helpful to know where other 320 owners have mounted theirs. I know that the problem is more easily solved with the remote display model, but the added cost seems a lot for something you only need to view very occasionally.

On a related topic, I read in several postings on the Forum that electrical best practice is to use stranded rather than solid wire for mobile applications like our campers. With that in mind, I bought a few feet of stranded 10-2 AWG to use for the EMS. As you can see in the photo below, there is not enough slack in the existing wiring as located to simply cut and tap into it with EMS. I will instead remove the 30 amp plug, and use the purchased stranded wire to connect from it to the EMS, then pull the existing wire to the WFCO over to the EMS unit.

Somewhat surprisingly, all of the 110v wiring (the orange. yellow and flat white wires in the photo) is standard solid Romex. I guess this may be OK as the Romex is pretty well supported, but it is a bit surprising.

Verna

My EMS is at the left end, closest to the rear seat. 

As far back as I can remember on this forum, there have always been the Romex used for the 110V outlets and circuits. My first T@B was a 2014 and it had the orange romex for the incoming 110V power and the white or yellow romex for the 110V outlets. 

TomCanada

It's a fun install, enjoy!  The (2021) 400's 30A receptacle comes apart into so many pieces when disassembled, if yours is similar I would just recommend keeping good track of where everything goes and take a few pictures on your way to make reassembly easier   Not rocket science but every bit helps..

Bayliss

@CharlieRN, although it doesn't really help with your installation (since the display is apparently part of the EMS control box itself), I posted this photo today on another thread you are following.  The remote display is very helpful, because you can locate it where it is in a convenient location for viewing.  It would be a bummer to have to remove the bedding, cushions, etc., to figure out what the specific electrical issue is.

tybladesmith

Another location for EMS display. The TV hides the orange light at night. 

Tabaz

Mine is mounted in the area near the Alde. It’s a “set and forget” type appliance.  No need to see the display under normal operations. The last thing I want is another blinking light in the cabin.

CharlieRN

Verna said:

My EMS is at the left end, closest to the rear seat. . .

I just noticed (now that I have but the EMS and access to my T@B) that in this installation the EMS is "upside down." This would have no practical effect on the operation of EMS but you would need to view the display from above rather than from the side. It is also really the only way you can install it in the 320 with no modification to the factory wiring - putting it "right side up" requires a longer run.

Slackers

A similar thing happened with my CS-S install.  The display can be reoriented in the EMS making the printed guide on the unit upside-down in the install.  With your install you may be able mount a dollar-store make-up mirror between the EMS and inverter/fuse box to make the readout more accessible. 

Verna

@CharlieRN, this was installed by the highly qualified technician at nüCamp named Austin, the Manager of the Service Department. I do believe he has discovered a reason for wiring it the way he did. Any questions about it just email repairs@nucamprv.com. 

CharlieRN

I'm sorry @Verna - I wasn't questioning the set-up or suggesting that the installer had done anything improperly, just noting that the installation was not the usual one.

The input side of the EMS is the left when the unit is "right side up", i. e., with the display on the right side, the writing on the cover plate from top to bottom when viewed head on. If you install it this way in the 320 though, you need to run the wire from the shore power receptacle to the EMS's left side. Almost no matter where you locate the EMS, the existing cabling is not nearly long enough to do this, and you'd need to splice additional wire in.

You eliminate this problem by installing the EMS "upside down", simply splicing the unit itself inline in the the middle of the existing wire run. This was almost certainly the reason that the nuCamp installer did things this way.

Bayliss

@CharlieRN, I installed mine "upside down" for the very reason you described.  The stock wire is too short.  If I were to do it again, I would likely use a longer run of wire.  Another option, if you want the cover to be oriented for readability, is to rotate the cover 180 degrees.  I chose not to do that, because I wanted the EMS cover labels for "Line/Input" and "Load/Output" of the wiring to be correctly oriented in relation to the actual EMS wiring.  (NOTE:  The plastic baggie in the photo contains one of the four mounting screws, because I could not access the area to attach it.)

CrabTab

What about installing the EMS on the other side of the wall, in the same compartment as the Alde? That would change the orientation of the input and output.

Bayliss

@CrabTab, I am uncertain of @CharlieRN's specific set-up in that area (i.e., the other side of the wall), but I considered installing it there.  However, it is pretty crowded with other items (e.g., water and glycol lines.)  However, the primary reason I did not install it there is because I wanted easy access to see the internal parts of the EMS if it ever needs to be serviced in the future.

CrabTab

It just seemed logical to me when doing my install @Bayliss. Of course, 'logic' is open to interpretation/perspective.



I DID mount my display in the exact same location as you, so I don't ALWAYS have crazy ideas...

Denny16

Putting electrical systems right next to all the plumbing does not seem like a good idea...
cheers

CrabTab

Ya' know @Denny16, the manufacturer installed both plumbing and electrical in every compartment of my 320...

CharlieRN

Thanks to all for the comments and suggestions. It looks to me that that though the general layout is shared, every T@B is uniquely constructed.

For example, the location and plumbing of Alde, and the other electrical wiring in the rear neighboring compartment are different in my camper than for @CrabTab (see photo). There is really no clear space to mount the EMS and in any event, the Alde won't allow access for mounting screws.

And if I wanted to install it upside down in the compartment adjacent to the shore power receptacle as @Bayliss did, I'd have to figure out how to move wiring as there are pentrations and runs in that part of my cabinet that are not in his.

There is some space near the controller on the floor of the floor of the cabinet that is probably the easiest place to put the EMS unit. Doing that sacrifices some potential storage however. An alternative may be to make a shelf that would bridge the area from the top of the tire intrusion to the wall perpendicular to the shore power receptacle. There is just enough space for the EMS to sit flat on a 3/8" plywood shelf and be under the seat panel.

Slackers

Can you mount it atop the inverter/fuse box?  You may have to strap it to the inside cabinet wall.  I did something similar in our CS-S.

Denny16

CrabTab said:

Ya' know @Denny16, the manufacturer installed both plumbing and electrical in every compartment of my 320...

Yes I know, same with parts of our TaB400, scary isn’t it.  I am going to clean up some of the electrical runs.  The Alde compartment is the biggest area with water and electrical bits close to each other.
cheers

CharlieRN

Now that my installation is complete, I thought I'd post some information and photos that may be helpful to others contemplating the same job.

My first observation is that every T@B camper is unique, quite literally. If you go back through the photos in this thread, you'll see that wire runs and penetrations vary among the same model, sometimes considerably. So the placement that works in one 320 may or may not work in another. In my case, the only spot with enough [easily] accessible room for the EMS turned out to be on the forward floor of the cabinet.

In addition, again depending on your particular T@B, there may or may not be enough slack in the 10 gauge line to wire an EMS directly. In my case, if I could have mounted the EMS on the vertical rear wall of the cabinet, I may have been able to splice into the line. Unfortunately, because of the penetrations in that area, there was not enough room on the wall. As is was, I wound up re-routing one of the lines to the Alde, putting it with the other two wires that run to the unit. I actually needed to splice some additional wire to it to accomplish the task. 

First about the shore power receptacle. Since I knew I would need to run additional wire, I ended up simply cutting the line, close to the receptacle (see photo). The white outer sleeve is held to the receptacle by the center screw and to another lesser extent but the grey strain relief. The other screw you see is for the strain relief that is integral to the sleeve - it's not used because it would require bending the wire 90 degrees, something too difficult to do in the limited space available with 10 AWG romex. I had a great deal of difficulty getting the plastic tongue that presses the wire into the strain relief out, essentially destroying it in that process. It did not matter as the 10 gauge round wire I used is a very tight fit, and so the tongue is not needed.

If it turns out you do need to replace the part however, it is a Thomas & Betts Plastic Romex Connector, item number 623502 available through ebarnett.com for 83 cents.

An aside: Be careful with removing and re-attaching the receptacle. It is held in place by 3 square drive sheet metal screws, who's only purchase is the aluminum sheet metal of the T@B's exterior wall. Using too much torque will easily strip the holes.

I would have liked to wire things directly to the 30 amp breaker in the WFCO from EMS. Getting access was too challenging however, so I decided to use the existing Romex run and connect to the 10 gauge round wire via a junction box.

What should have taken only an hour or so ended up taking most of the day. It was a one-time effort however and everything is working nicely. By the way, you can't see it in the photos, but the EMS unit sits on a piece of 3/8" closed cell foam to help isolate it from 60 Hz hum.

TomCanada

Nice install!  I too practically destroyed the strain relief's tongue when removing it but it stayed intact enough to allow me to hammer it back in.  They don't make these things to be serviceable do they  

Denny16

No man of these attain relief connectors, along with wire nuts, are a one time use, then replaced with new ones if taken apart.  Only the old screw down clamp type wire strain relief holders are re useable.
cheers