Ladder Support for Roof Access

BrianZ

People sometimes ask how to get access on the roof, and of course one right answer is you cannot get onto the roof, since it's not designed to support your weight.  But the walls are strong, so I've managed to put an extension ladder on top of one side wall and lay on it over the edge, but it's uncomfortable unless you put something over the rungs to lay on, and it still involves reaching. I also needed a step ladder to get up onto the extended ladder, and once I got too far over the top and the extension ladder became a teeter-totter.  Another suggestion was to use two A-frame ladders on either side.

So, now I have found a better method of using our extension ladder, on which I normally keep a 4-ft wide stabilizer bar at the top end ($35 at Lowes) which makes it a lot safer to use around the house.  My new idea is to add an 8ft 2x4 to the two feet of the aluminum stabilizer bar, then add some padding under the 2x4 to rest both ends over the sides of the roof, like this..
(Note: see below where I have added metal straps to replace the cord holding board to ladder in the photo below..
https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/168727/#Comment_168727 )

Then, I can slide it up over the roof until the end is over the top..

As you can see, there is adequate clearance, however the poor angle of the board would not have worked without further adjustment by adding wood blocks cut at an angle.  Also, it was necessary to strap the board to the ladder with a cord in the middle, though the rubber feet are bolted to the board to keep them in place.
This shows the extra block of wood cut to about 40 degrees (35-40° should be fine), with a pad stapled on (1/2" dense plastic foam, which is also a bit grippy)..

The wood blocks (8" piece of 2x4), cut to give the right 35-40° angle, are joined with a couple of construction screws, with the block centers located midway between roof rail and corner handle of T@B.

Below shows the hex head bolt, washer, lock washer & nut I used to fasten the rubber foot & its aluminum mounting plate inside to the board.  The underside of the hole is drilled out 1/4" deep with a larger bit to countersink the head of the bolt.  The metal square tube fits into the rubber foot, but the board still needs to be strapped to the ladder to hold the two together.

And here's proof that it works..
(100+ lbs distributed to each wall)

Now I can open the top of our Aero-Flo rain cover over the roof vent & clean it out inside more easily than I could before.  I'm also contemplating fastening a backup camera to that vent cover, so this could help.  Haven't tried it yet from the front, but expect that should work too.  I'll need to unbolt the ladder's rubber feet to restore the ladder to normal use, then I can just store the board - not too much trouble for something I'll only need maybe once or twice a year.

PS: just out of curiosity, before I put this together, I tried resting the ladder's rubber feet directly on the roof, and even though it's not a very heavy ladder (16'), I could see a reflection on the roof bending inward a bit & less so in another spot farther back, which I presume was where an aluminum frame support was located (every 8" across the roof as I recall).

Sharon_is_SAM

Careful @BrianZ!  That looks like an accident waiting to happen!  Do you jam the bottom of the ladder against a tree or curb to prevent sliding?

BrianZ

Not to worry, @Sharon_is_SAM!  It may look that way, but it is very stable and solid.  The ladder has feet of metal & rubber in the lawn, but it's not going anywhere; though one should make sure the wheels are chocked!    A smooth hard surface sloping away might be a little risky, but one should only use a ladder on level ground.  For some extra assurance against sliding, one could tie a rope to the bottom rung and tie the ends to each corner handle on the T@B. Once the weather dries out, I'll try it on pavement at the front end.
PS:  If it ever did slide, it would be a gentle ride down to the handles. 

BrianZ

Ok, so it works at the front too..

However, it's not quite as easy for a couple of reasons:  
The front is too steep to allow resting the support on the handles without the ladder hitting the window - it has to be lifted above the window.  If you have a long radio antenna mounted, it may be best to remove it.  Also, the ladder needs to be extended farther than in the back, not because of the tongue, but to avoid not clearing the window, which is closer than the roof.
I made one safety improvement shown below, to keep the 2x4 from sliding off to the side a 4" block of wood fastened with 2 screws through top & one through the side into the other block..

With the ladder all the way to the vent, there is still enough clearance over the window..

View from above..

This should work fine, however, I really want to replace the cord holding the board to the ladder with some more durable hardware, like some sturdy metal strapping and/or a bolt.
As I leaned over the end of the ladder, I could detect a small amount of flex in the center of the board, something that could probably be prevented by a more rigid connection at the center than just a cord. Twisting of the board might also be less likely if the angle of the supporting block doesn't quite match the roofline, which, in the front, is at a slightly greater angle to the ladder.
No sliding of the foot of the ladder though.

AnOldUR

Guessing the 4 to 1 ladder rule does not apply ...

I installed a backup camera behind my roof vent. A step ladder on the side was all I needed to reach it. I did throw a blanket over the side in case the ladder slipped or I dropped something. I agree with @Sharon_is_SAM . 

BrianZ

Yes, I've used an 8ft stepladder before, but it still involves a lot of sideways leaning that's hard on the back & still doesn't give me easy access. 
How's your backup camera working from that location, @AnOldUR?  I figure that camera angle from on the back roof should give a good overall view of the space that you're trying to back into.

PS:  I believe the intent of that 4-to-1 rule is to require an increasing distance from a vertical wall the higher you go, in order to avoid tipping the ladder over due to lack of lean against the wall.  In this case, most of the weight is on the trailer, which also isn't a vertical surface, so agree that the rule doesn't really apply here.

AnOldUR

@BrianZ ... I'm pleased with the installation. It's been up there for over 3000 miles and has worked flawlessly. The fish eye lens on this camera isn't great for backing up, but I got it for covering the blind spot behind the trailer while moving forward. Sun glare in the second photo doesn't do justice to how well the camera works. I have a second Bluetooth camera with a normal lens as part of this system that I can move from the back of my TV to the back of the trailer, but so far my wife is all I've needed for help backing up.

BrianZ

Clever install - looks like it stays out of the way of the vent opening.  Is the bracket made for the camera, or adapted from another purpose?

AnOldUR

@BrianZ ... Thanks. The bracket is a random part I found that had holes that lined up with the one's on the cameras mount. My only fear is a low branch at a campground. At first I mounted it lower, but got a better field of view when raised up. With the lens on this camera, seeing the back of the trailer and the skyline at the same time is unavoidable.

BrianZ

Oh yeah, @AnOldUR, good point about the tree branches.  We had our little round roof vent above the a/c unit broken off once by a tree branch.  I'll have to keep that in mind.  Maybe I can install one lower than the back end of our AeroFlo cover.  Thanks.

BrianZ

And back to the original topic..
I have replaced the original nylon string holding the 2x4 board to the ladder with some durable & easy to get on/off hardware..

I had these spare parts on hand from one of my many days of tinkering - two strips of flat aluminum (green) anchored to each side of the board with 1/4" hex-head wood screws (white), and fastened to the ladder with a cinch pin (blue) and quick release clip (red).  I also found I could order a new set of replacement pads for my Werner Ladder Stabilizer bar, so I can leave the old ones bolted to the board for quick & easy mounting on the ladder.

MarkAl

I like your idea with some caveats. 1) don't rely on the rubber pads of the ladder to not slide out! The tangenetial force builds a lot with that extreme angle and could easily overcome the static friction of the pads. 2) I worry about plastic railing and breakage. Different years/models may have voids under where the ladder rests that could flex and break the area of the plastic.

BrianZ

Thanks, @MarkAl.
Both are valid points that I will keep in mind.  Next time I set this up, I will try tying a rope between the ladder and the T@B handles as a precaution.  I actually tried sort of bouncing up & down a bit just a few feet up on the ladder to see if it would move, but it didn't (though I realize the higher you go at this extreme angle, the less downward force is available to maintain the friction with the ground).  I think at the extreme angle needed for the front approach, the edge of the aluminum under the rubber pad was biting pretty good into the asphalt. But this may not always be the case, so best to tie it off & be safe.

In the past, I've used padding on the rails for laying the extension ladder directly on one side, without any ill effects.  That approach limits you to the centermost level point of the wall & not even ideal just for getting to the vent area due to the teeter-totter effect, much less other centerline areas of the roof.  Once you've had the foot of the ladder behind you raise up off the ground while you're at the top, it's a bit unsettling.    However, it's sort of a self-correcting situation, as the ladder then slides backwards, restoring weight to the lower end which returns it to the ground.  At least that was my experience when I crawled out a little too far past the balance point.  At least with my new setup, the resting point of the ladder is at the very end of it, so no balancing act involved.  I also like the fact that weight is distributed squarely between 2 walls instead of just against one, and the force is not pushing the wall sideways, but downwards.  So, I figure there is less risk for damage this way.

As our cousin used to say, when ready to move on, "Well, onwards & sideways!", or in this case with my ladder, onwards, but not sideways!

Verna

@BrianZ, if you used a strap (ratcheting strap comes to mind), that was looped around each leg above the first rung from the bottom, and connected the strap to the tongue, there should be no worry about kick-out, nor valance points. If you were on the side, take the straps through one wheel spoke per strap to avoid the kick-out, or losing the balance point. 

All those years using a ladder on telephone poles and climbing telephone 
poles do give me a working sense of knowing what can happen. Of course climbing a telephone pole without a line belt to quickly disconnect service was for the younger, dumber days, too😉

BrianZ

Thanks, @Verna, for the ratcheting tie-down strap idea.  The ones I had were a bit on the short side, but worked well..

It's a lot more solid this way - takes the bounce out of the ladder.
I'm in the process of installing a backup camera on the roof, so this ladder arrangement is perfect for the job..

I also made a simple pad to lay on, which is very comfy - I could take a nap up there. 
I cut a 4ft scrap of 1/4" plywood, added a trimmed scrap of 1-inch foam padding, and wrapped them with a remnant of quality rug padding with a grippy rubber bottom that I used as the top & stapled that to the bottom side of the plywood.  It doesn't slide either, so easy to use.
Also, the board no long sags in the center with the metal straps attached, and it was handy for keeping my bag of tools from sliding off the roof.

Verna

Good job, @BrianZ.