Uncomfortable Cushions on 2021 TaBs

Alt_Tab

rhyno said:

@Alt_Tab - that is GREAT news! We are still waiting on replacement dinette cushions we requested in July through our dealer. Do you mind sharing your turnaround time?

Whitney had advised me that is was 3 weeks to make them as they are made to order.
It was actually only 3 weeks to delivery.

You will be VERY pleased!

rhyno

*Update* We received our replacement dinette cushions through the nuCamp warranty department and the difference is night and day. These are so much better than the originals. Now we have a dinette and sofa we can use!

Oneota

Thank you for sharing your comments. 

Our 2019 TAB 320s BL had great seating and made into our favorite bed (w full size foam, mattress pad, sheets and quilt-wheel to wheel). 

We traded to a 2021 for some great improvements: larger bathroom, cassette toilet, Air 8, Nautilaus water system, but the cushions are a really big problem.  Have not been able to set up a bed we can sleep in because of the cushions with all the gaps between the split back and seat cushions, and the bench seat is much softer.

Anyone replaced all the seating and/or cushions?

Does NuCamp have a remediation for this?

TABNewbies

We, like others above, reported the soft cushions to the nuCamp warranty department: warranty@nucamprv.com
For us new cushions are due to be sent 

TomCanada

FYI I had quite a back and forth exchange with the warranty department about this.  They have confirmed that the supplier has made zero changes to the cushions and that there are no differences in the design or construction any any point in the 2021 Tab 400's design.  They mentioned some people thought there was some difference, but their supplier says otherwise.

To prove this true/false once and for all, I asked them to weigh one of their larger dinette cushions so I could see if the density on the 'new' cushions that they're replacing for (some) people is any better than the old ones (of which I still have the larger dinette one, ie. one that's bottoming out).  They weighed in at 6 pounds.  I weighed mine, and it weighed.... 5 pounds 12.5 ounces - effectively identical.

What this means is that if you do manage to convince the warranty folks to give you a replacement, you're just going to get the same cushions you started with.  In addition, they require that you show photos with very obvious visible sag to even consider a replacement.  Mine are extremely soft, but when you're not sitting on them, they 'look' fine, so no replacement (not that I'd want a replacement of an equivalent quality anyways).

Just thought I'd share this with you all - basically if we want better cushions, we have to do them ourselves.  If any of you received cushions that you feel are radically improved over the originals, I suggest you weigh the larger dinette cushion (Tab 400) and see for yourself.  Their standard (bad) quality design is 6 pounds.  A better quality version would be over 10 pounds.  Also, note that for these, new cushions will always seem quite a bit firmer than older ones at the start - but if the density/weight is low, they won't stay that way for long.

Cheryl13

Our cushions for our 2021 are also terrible.  the passenger side is much worse than the drivers side.  We asked at our local warranty dealer awhile back, and they were not encouraging.  I plan to replace them myself, but haven't gotten it done.  Is Nucamp still sending out replacements? 

TABNewbies

An update: We received new cushions and they feel firmer, certainly firmer that our original ones ever were from the start. However the weight of the larger T@B400 drivers side seat cushion before and after is the same ~ 6 lb and so time will tell as @TomCanada notes. 

jredder

We recently received our replacement cushions for the front row of our 2021 320. NuCamp Customer Service was not aware of any variations in production but agreed to replace. Took ~4 weeks for delivery. Replacements are definitely firmer and confirmed by photos we took with a 50# bag of sand. Now we have consistency across the 3 rows and do not bottom out when sitting. A good NuCamp experience. Happy campers.

jredder

Also, we processed this through the NuCamp warranty group as a warranty defect during our first year.  Not the regular customer service team.

Update after 1 year of regular use (~40 days)
the replacements have become soft like the originals. easy to bottom out. Agree with TomCanada that the warranty replacement route is only a short term solution. If you plan to camp often then upgrade the foam per others in this string.

Maxcamp

Thanks all for the helpful insights.  Our six-week break-in trip nearly broke us as well, sleeping on the highly uneven 2021 cushions. Too many cross joints and too uneven and inconsistent density surfaces.

We also found two corners of the cushions/frames over the Alde and A/C had broken joints internally, leading to sagging corners and uneven sleeping surface.  We will have to rebuild these.  We are lightweight and very unhappy with the construction.  I've read that some people have infilled the top surface of these compartments with slats to spread the load.

Midway through the trip I cut two 1/4" pieces of luan plywood so they could run either lengthwise or crosswise over the entire bed area, and a 3" foam topper.  Running the joint lengthwise removes any cross joints under the body.
Resulting flat surface without variances helped *enormously* with sleeping.

A huge pain to roll up the topper, strap it up, stand it in the corner by the bath, slide and stack the plywood atop each other, warp and lift one end and carefully spin ninety degrees to span widthwise, and slide them stacked over the far rear compartments, then push  the rolled up topper way back under the upper cabinets.  Add a second person and they quickly are sent to the bathroom to wait it out during maneuvers.
All so we could each lunch inside.

We also found this system blocks ALL the heat from the Alde and we will be drilling 3" hole sawn openings in the underside cabinets and installing a small 12v fan to move superheated air from below to above.

T&B 320S Boondock (mfg. Jan. 2021)/ Tacoma 4 cylinder tow in (sigh) low gears.

Tabnero

I reported very bad cushions to the warranty department and they are not going to do anything about it. The cushions in my 2021 TAb 320 are not up to what should be the Nucamp standard. These cushions compress to the bone when seated and create significant dip when sleeping, even with 2 inch topper. It is better with the topper but the dip when sleeping at my hip is terrible. This happens because of a design flaw. The back cushions are stapled to a 3/4 inch piece of wood while the others are not. So the tension created in the back cushions has much better support than the front cushions. Also the cushions are not at the same height. It is a problem that should be addressed. I am getting ready to try air mattress accross to see if it will fill in the gap enough to be sleepable. Disappointed to say the least with the response I got.

DenverJaguar

We've slept terribly the 3 nights we took it out since buying our 2022 Tab 320. Based on other comments I doubt the 2 inch topper will help. I guess we'll be upgrading the foam next year, but that won't help the issue of the rear cushions having plywood bases and the others not having them. We need consistency, and the Tab 320 isn't like the 400 where you can have a dedicated bed set up at all times. It's impractical to have any setup that doesn't allow a topper to be rolled up and placed behind the seat backs. Hoping for the best, which would be a comfortable night's sleep, but demanding the minimum, which is a more comfortable sleeping area than our tent (which right now isn't the case). 

Yoshi_TAB

Just a thought...not knocking or callenging the folks who don't like their cushions.  We have a 2021 TAB 320 received in July.  I've been following all these posts on cushions.  We think our cushions are fine for sleeping, my wife even feels that hers is too firm and we are looking for an addtional topper (in addition to our mattress insider pad) to soften it.  When we sit on them for seats, they do seem to sink in a bit, but again, they are fine for sleeping for us.  I know we expect good quality construction and materials in our TABs, but when it comes to something like sleep cushions, we all like it differently; soft , medium, firm, extra firm, etc.  Just go to a mattress store   I imagine it's hard to spec out what everyone would like with an item that is such a personal preference for all of us.  Just how I see it...safe travels to all... 

Tabnero

@yoshi, yeah sure we all like something different. However I dont think any one likes having a significant dip at their hip when trying to sleep. This problem is not merely the cushion density.

Yoshi_TAB

I understand and again have no issue with buyers who are not happy and hope you work things out...its just words  like we need consistancy, design flaw and should be NuCamp standard I don't understand without being defined.  I'd be willing to bet NuCamp buys the cushions per some spec or part numbr from the foam guys, accepts them on cert without further testing and the inconsistency is with the foam guys.  Although if  there is truly an issue, which is sounds like there is, NuCamp should address it with their supplier.  It would be nice to know if they are or not...

Tabnero

design flaw is this. the heights of the 2 cushions are not the same creating a dip when mass applied to that area. Next design shortcoming is the compression the front cushion is under does not allow for the same firmness as the back cushion attached to the backer bored thereby exasperating the dip phenomenon. This is not a supplier issue. I think they are getting what they asked for. What Nucamp needs is a better understanding of what is causing the problem.

USSBird

Monday we received our replacement front cushions for our 2021 400BD. We worked the warranty claim via our dealer.  NuCamp asked for pictures, we provided.  5 weeks latter they showed up on our front door (the cushions not NuCamp).  The replacement cushions are definitely comfy and firmer, no longer "bottoming out".  Much appreciation to our dealer, Missouri Teardrop Campers and to NuCamp for great customer service.  

Tabnero

@USSBird, I am happy for you and irritated again for me. You would think my discussion directly with warranty dept and sending pictures would have resulted in some positive action. But nope, they are just hoping I go away. and this is the 3rd Tab I have owned

USSBird

Tabnero I didn't mean to give you cause for irritation.  I wish I could share what the secret sauce was for our warranty claim approval, but I don't know what it was exactly. 

Maybe it's in the pictures we submitted?  In all 3 of them, I had my DW sitting on the center of each of the dinette cushions. This enhances the curling up of the cushion sides and best illustrates the "bottoming out" effect.  Now behave, she was fully dressed, nothing cheeky here. 

Perhaps try submitting a new claim via your dealership?  IMHO I find that a dealers good name and reputation can lend veracity to your claim.  YMMV

FWIW On the pointy end of the driver side cushion, the new cushion still curls up a bit when you sit on it. Still it is a VAST improvement in comfort. Also it was 5 weeks from the initial claim and about 3 weeks from approval to delivery.

The 3rd T@B should always be the charm as they say.  Good Luck & Happy Holidays!

TomCanada

FYI I wouldn't bother with warranty replacements - we've already confirmed on the forum that nucamp is replacing the 'soft' cushions with the same garbage they supplied in the first place.  It'll always seem firmer at first, that's not the issue - the issue is that the density of the cushions is so low, that they will very quickly soften over time.  Replacements are at best, therefore, a temporary fix - because it doesn't seem that anyone at nuCamp is taking this seriously enough to replace with higher quality materials.  It's not a bug - it's just designed that way, so while we're unhappy with the cushion quality, that's what they've designed in.  Until hopefully future years when they'll revisit and realize these cushions are unbecoming of what's otherwise a very nicely designed, high quality travel trailer.  Hope you're listening, nuCamp!  I don't blame them for not doing much for this gen, but if they care about their customers and reputation, they hopefully will get the message for future design iterations.  It's an extremely easy problem for them to fix - they just need to spec (and pay for) better quality foam from their supplier(s).

Denny16

Good point, but nüCamp does not make the cushions, they are made by a vendor (in Texas I believe) and shipped to nüCamp ready to install in the trailers.  So nüCamp would need to specify a firmer foam.  Since foam is a petroleum product, nüCamp would do to find a non petroleum product to replace the foam, like organic latex, which can be 100% recycled back into more latex cushions. 
cheers

rothrocks

We had a 2005 Dutchman T@B for 15years. We camped in it many times, sometimes 6 weeks at a time. The cushions were like new when we sold it last year. We now have a 2021 320S (build July 2020) and the cushions are almost dead. Sad, considering that these are such great campers.

rhyno

*2nd Update* After one outing, our warrantyreplacement cushions are also bottoming out. Only solution at this point is replacing the substandard foam they are using at the factory. 

Marceline

I wonder if this is an unintended consequence of NuCamp trying to fix a perceived problem. For years people complained about the cushions being too firm, which is why so many people bought memory foam toppers. 

Cheryl13

There really is no excuse. Foam is expensive. Good high density foam is quite expensive.  Nucamp either didn’t specify or specifically did choose cheaper foam. 

Denny16

The quality of the foam in the cushions is going to depend on what type it is, not necessarily based on its density (correction, some non laytex foam quality is based on its density/weight, see TomCanada comment below.   Good expensive latex foam, for example, comes in soft, med and hard firmness, all three are expensive materials (and have a similar weight).  We do not know the actual quality level of the foam o it’s source, just it’s firmness, or lack there of.

The foam in the cushions on our 2018 TaB400 seem to be very good, not too soft.  However, we did add a 2-inch laytex foam topper to the bed.
cheers

MarkAl

I'd be good with learning what type and "firmness" durometer is they've been using or going to. Aren't the latest trailers better? I'm past my 1 yr warranty but am fine ordering the foam, cutting it down and replacing the old. The bench seats are getting pretty compressed. It's not a big problem to me as I can fix it. If supply chain, I totally understand. As an electrical engineer, we are re-designing so many boards for component issues to get product out. One chip where we used to pay $0.70 is now only found on the grey market for $50!

TomCanada

Denny16 said:

The quality of the foam in the cushions is going to depend on what type it is, not based on its density.  Good expensive latex foam, for exa,ple comes in soft, med and hard firmness, all three are expensive materials.  We do not know the quality level of,the foam, just it’s firmness, or lack there of.
cheers

Hi Denny I beg to differ a bit. While yes you can get alternate foams like latex, which have their own criteria for equality, the discussion here is primarily standard polyurethane cushion foam.  For this standard foam it is very easy to measure quality because it directly linked to density. The heavier the foam, the higher quality and more resilient it is!  I've measured the Tab 400's cushion volume and weight and calculated these cushions are less than 1.4lbs.  a good quality foam would be well over 2 lbs (high end furniture uses as high as 3.5).  So we know very deterministically that these are low quality cushions.

Firmness, on the other hand, is completely independent of density. You can have high density soft cushions, or low density form cushions, and everything in between.  My point is the quality is based on density - regardless of firmness.  If you have a low density cushion, it won't last.  And we are seeing that based on people's experiences even with the firm replacement cushions going soft and bottoming out very quickly.

Pintoplumber

I heard on the radio, that a company in Texas makes 90% of the foam in the country. When Texas had that cold snap and lost power, the foam clogged the pipes and they would have to replace or rebuild their system. Perhaps they couldn’t afford to, or the rebuilding process is going slowly. Don’t know if that’s true or not, just what I heard.

Denny16

OK, thanks Tom, I was going by what a foam mattress manufacturer, who primarily uses latex foam, which is heavy weight wise.  I added an edit, referring to your comments in my original post.  I am sure nüCamp is trying to get the best cushions it can during these times of inconsistent supply chain and changing vendors.  

Last I heard, nüCamp has a vendor it gets it cushions from, they do not make the cushions in house.  It is hard to control changes a vendor makes in its product.  Hopefully the quality will increase back to where it was, when supply sources become better stocked.
 Cheers